Minnesota Wild General Discussion X

[TaLoN]

"The Wild desperately need skilled young players."
<skilled young players added>
"...but they can't grind!"

I know you're joking, but even skill players need strength on the puck.

Granlund was the perfect example of a skill player who was weak on the puck when he entered the league, but committing himself to getting stronger in that area turned him from a player who couldn't manage to stay in the NHL even though he was too good for the AHL... into a near 70pt player in the NHL.

He had to learn how to gain strength and learn how to win board battles so he could maintain possession enough to utilize his skilled puck handling, passing, vision.

 

[AKL]

I know you're joking, but even skill players need strength on the puck.

Granlund was the perfect example of a skill player who was weak on the puck when he entered the league, but committing himself to getting stronger in that area turned him from a player who couldn't manage to stay in the NHL even though he was too good for the AHL... into a near 70pt player in the NHL.

He had to learn how to gain strength and learn how to win board battles so he could maintain possession enough to utilize his skilled puck handling, passing, vision.

Something that we’re giving up on Donato for at 22 when Granlund didn’t even learn it til like 24.

 

[57special]

Donato has shown SOME skill. Yeah, he had a nice goal last game, but let's not pretend that is the norm with him. He is appallingly weak at our blue line, which leads to us getting hemmed in our zone, and is also weak in the neutral zone, which leads to changes of possession and chances against. His puck battling ability is pretty bad, also. I'll take Greenway and his ugly goals/screens all day long.

Players are allowed to have skilled players AND be able to play two ways, you know. I understand that an elite scorer is there for that purpose, and will concentrate on that more, but Donato is hardly elite, or even good. He's a borderline NHL'er. BOS realized that, and dumped him as soon as they could.

Granlund is a great example. Spurgeon another. Zucker, too. Unfortunately, all those players have more physical talent than Donato. Spurgeon and Zucker are much better skaters, and Granlund has(had?) god given hands and vision.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Something that we’re giving up on Donato for at 22 when Granlund didn’t even learn it til like 24.

They also didn't move Granlund from center to wing till around then. Also they had him in the AHL for a spell.

 

[AKL]

They also didn't move Granlund from center to wing till around then. Also they had him in the AHL for a spell.

Neither of these points are really all that pertinent at this time.

 

[TaLoN]

Something that we’re giving up on Donato for at 22 when Granlund didn’t even learn it til like 24.

Granlund learned it before 24, he just played center until 24... when he's better suited to the wing.

In 12-13 he was weak on the puck and was knocked down all the time, losing his stick in the process. Which is why he couldn't hold a roster spot long.

Reworked his offseason strength program the next summer... came back in 13-14 and suddenly was strong on the puck and making hits along the boards at times!

That's why he went from 8pts in 27 games to 41pts in 63 games. Suddenly people were saying he was playing too physical, and were worried that he was injuring himself.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Neither of these points are really all that pertinent at this time.

Yes, they are. As Talon said, he worked on things, Minnesota also made it easier for him.

 

[AKL]

Yes, they are. As Talon said, he worked on things, Minnesota also made it easier for him.

“He worked on things”?

Is Donato not capable of working on things?

 

[thestonedkoala]

“He worked on things”?

Is Donato not capable of working on things?

Who knows? But so far he hasn't it seems. The issues he was having in Boston has followed him to Minnesota. There is a reason why he got moved. He's also turning 24 this year, so...by the time Granlund was 24, he had 4 years of NHL/AHL experience and around 300 games under his belt. Donato is going to have 113 games in 3 years...so you tell me? Granlund was still developing, Donato may develop, but physically he probably has or doesn't have much further growth.

 

[TaLoN]

“He worked on things”?

Is Donato not capable of working on things?

Of course he can. Though it is telling that Granlund immediately recognized he needed to make changes, and addressed those changes in his training. Donato apparently hasn't recognized it as a problem.

Granlund figured that out at 21... Donato is 23 and still doesn't recognize it. He can change his training this summer, but with the player comments about his being in the weight room all the time, but never actually working out... you have to wonder if he will.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Donato apparently hasn't recognized it as a problem.

Or he has hit whatever growth he had and what we have is what we have as a player.

 

[TaLoN]

Or he has hit whatever growth he had and what we have is what we have as a player.

No, I think he still has time to add strength. You can add strength even as an older player, it's just more difficult to adapt your style later.

He's young enough to figure it out, but I don't know if he has the desire to put in that work. That desire separates the real good players from those who try to ride it out on skill alone.

Only Gretzky had enough skill alone to not need to put in all the work.

 

[nt3005]

Granlund was seen better than he was for most of his time here. He had the 2 really good seasons, otherwise he really wasn't that special.

I loved him as a player at the time. But looking back you can see he never was what most thought.

He had great IQ and Vision. Good hands, decent skating, and a bad shot.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Donato’s issues don’t come from lack of strength on the boards. Plenty of players get by being terrible in puck battles. Would I love for him be stronger on the boards? Yes. Am I sure that he’s a good enough player to be a top 6 guy in the NHL? No. The fact of the matter is that he isn’t a grinder, and he’s asked to play a grinder style of hockey. When he’s playing 4th and 3rd line minutes, he has to dump the puck in and go grind it out. That’s not his game. When he played with Parise and Fiala he was able to gain zone with possession more. What’s even more important though is that those players have more plays in the O-zone than “just get the puck to the net”. Even looking back to last year, he was given a prime role with scoring players and he did well. If you’re asking him to be tenacious on the forecheck and around the net he isn’t going to succeed. Give him a consistent role in the top 6 and then evaluate.

 

[TaLoN]

Donato’s issues don’t come from lack of strength on the boards. Plenty of players get by being terrible in puck battles. Would I love for him be stronger on the boards? Yes. Am I sure that he’s a good enough player to be a top 6 guy in the NHL? No. The fact of the matter is that he isn’t a grinder, and he’s asked to play a grinder style of hockey. When he’s playing 4th and 3rd line minutes, he has to dump the puck in and go grind it out. That’s not his game. When he played with Parise and Fiala he was able to gain zone with possession more. What’s even more important though is that those players have more plays in the O-zone than “just get the puck to the net”. Even looking back to last year, he was given a prime role with scoring players and he did well. If you’re asking him to be tenacious on the forecheck and around the net he isn’t going to succeed. Give him a consistent role in the top 6 and then evaluate.

If he was strong on the puck away from the boards, I would agree... but he's weak on the puck across the board. You even skate by him too fast and the breeze knocks him off the puck... he's just weak period.

He doesn't have to grind, but he needs more strength to use his skill.

Rask replaced him on the second line because of that weakness.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

If he was strong on the puck away from the boards, I would agree... but he's weak on the puck across the board. You even skate by him too fast and the breeze knocks him off the puck... he's just weak period.

He doesn't have to grind, but he needs more strength to use his skill.

Rask replaced him on the second line because of that weakness.

Strength can be added. Some of the things he can do with the puck can’t be taught.

 

[TaLoN]

Strength can be added. Some of the things he can do with the puck can’t be taught.

Again, I agree with that. I question his desire to put in the work needed to make that change at this point though.

He wouldn't be the first, nor would he be the last skilled player not having the work ethic needed to make that step.

Spooner comes to mind. People here used to drool over the idea of getting him in a trade... now everyone is like "Phew! Dodged that bullet!"

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Again, I agree with that. I question his desire to put in the work needed to make that change at this point though.

He wouldn't be the first, nor would he be the last skilled player not having the work ethic needed to make that step.

Spooner comes to mind.

I don’t feel like work ethic is an issue with him, but a lot goes into getting stronger and the fact that he doesn’t have NHL strength at this point could be a decent indicator that he doesn’t have great habits.

 

[Wabit]

This year: trade Zucker and Foligno for futures and whatever short term cap dump is needed to balance it out.
After next year: Lose one of Greenway/Donato to Seattle.
After 21-22 season Zucc loses his full NTC.

 

[TaLoN]

I don’t feel like work ethic is an issue with him, but a lot goes into getting stronger and the fact that he doesn’t have NHL strength at this point could be a decent indicator that he doesn’t have great habits.

Like I said, Russo may have found it funny, but I found it rather concerning in the player poll when everyone in the locker room said he was in the weight room more than anyone, but was never actually working out.

For a player like him... that puts up red flags for me.

 

[AKL]

Like I said, Russo may have found it funny, but I found it rather concerning in the player poll when everyone in the locker room said he was in the weight room more than anyone, but was never actually working out.

For a player like him... that puts up red flags for me.

Players also joke around with each other. It was seemingly a fun and light hearted poll. Try not to read so much into it.

 

[Wabit]

Like I said, Russo may have found it funny, but I found it rather concerning in the player poll when everyone in the locker room said he was in the weight room more than anyone, but was never actually working out.

For a player like him... that puts up red flags for me.

Maybe he's a really good spotter/motivator for everyone else?

 

[dBoon]

He can be and he's had some nice plays with his stick along the boards this year, but I haven't seen it from him all that often.

Ice time?

 

[TaLoN]

Players also joke around with each other. It was seemingly a fun and light hearted poll. Try not to read so much into it.

I could see that if strength wasn't such a weakness for him... it is though. They talked about how much others work on strength training, and it's no surprise those others have a lot of strength.

A lot of truth in those jokes.

 

[AKL]

I could see that if strength wasn't such a weakness for him... it is though. They talked about how much others work on strength training, and it's no surprise those others have a lot of strength.

A lot of truth in those jokes.

And maybe they joke about him being in the weight room and not working out because they know it’s a weakness he’s actively addressing.