Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24

[BuiumSaveUs]

McGroarty is a Guerin type of player too

 

[Digitalbooya]

I am having a fun conversation on CF with a Wild fan that thinks Zucc is better than Boldy.

Check this out:

Before 2/7/2024
5v5 points:
Rossi 24 points in 50gp
Kaprizov 20 pts in 43gp
Zucc 19pts in 41gp
Boldy 19 pts in 43gp


After 2/7/2024
5v5 Points:
Kaprizov 27 points in 33gp
Boldy 20 points in 33gp
Zuccarello 9 points in 29gp
Rossi 9 points in 33gp

It's kinda crazy that moving Zucc to Rossi's wing had a such a dramatic negative impact on both of their numbers. Sure, it could be that Rossi and Zucc were running out of gas at the end of the season, but this also ties back to what I was saying way before in this thread. Their styles just do not mix; like oil and water.

 

[AKL]

I am having a fun conversation on CF with a Wild fan that thinks Zucc is better than Boldy.

Check this out:

Before 2/7/2024
5v5 points:
Rossi 24 points in 50gp
Kaprizov 20 pts in 43gp
Zucc 19pts in 41gp
Boldy 19 pts in 43gp


After 2/7/2024
5v5 Points:
Kaprizov 27 points in 33gp
Boldy 20 points in 33gp
Zuccarello 9 points in 29gp
Rossi 9 points in 33gp

It's kinda crazy that moving Zucc to Rossi's wing had a such a dramatic negative impact on both of their numbers. Sure, it could be that Rossi and Zucc were running out of gas at the end of the season, but this also ties back to what I was saying way before in this thread. Their styles just do not mix; like oil and water.

Kaprizov going up, Zuccarello and Rossi going way down sounds like Zuccarello is a problem

 

[Wabit]

I am having a fun conversation on CF with a Wild fan that thinks Zucc is better than Boldy.

Check this out:

Before 2/7/2024
5v5 points:
Rossi 24 points in 50gp
Kaprizov 20 pts in 43gp
Zucc 19pts in 41gp
Boldy 19 pts in 43gp


After 2/7/2024
5v5 Points:
Kaprizov 27 points in 33gp
Boldy 20 points in 33gp
Zuccarello 9 points in 29gp
Rossi 9 points in 33gp

It's kinda crazy that moving Zucc to Rossi's wing had a such a dramatic negative impact on both of their numbers. Sure, it could be that Rossi and Zucc were running out of gas at the end of the season, but this also ties back to what I was saying way before in this thread. Their styles just do not mix; like oil and water.

Your logic is flawed.

Zucc + Rossi had just as much time 5v5 time together before (297 mins) and after (291 mins) Feb 7th.

Rossi + Kap ToI dropped from 307mins to 144 mins, Zucc + Kap ToI dropped from 375 mins to 129 mins in your timeframe.

I agree Zucc and Rossi don't mix well. But when they stopped getting ToI with the by far best winger on the team and the results reflect that (neither had much time with Boldy).

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The good top line was fun, but it hung other players out to dry with bad combos.

 

[AKL]

The good top line was fun, but it hung other players out to dry with bad combos.

I hate to harp on it (no I don't), but it seems that, by and large, any combo with Zuccarello is not a great combo. The "exception" is Kaprizov, but of course Kaprizov is also better away from him.

 

[Digitalbooya]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1804587961939558676

What should we offer? Sounds like McGroarty views himself as NHL ready.

 

[DANOZ28]

?25 -1st top 10 protected?

 

[57special]

I don't know if I'm crazy about a McGroarty for Rossi swap., considering that he is a LHS winger. Certainly would leave to door wide open for Bankier if they did the trade.

Firmly on the fence. I could see WPG not being crazy about the deal, either, as they already have a similar player to Rossi in Perfetti, but they would be behind the 8 ball with RM making not wanting to sign with them, so they might have to take what they can get.

 

[Webster]

There's something going on with Rossi, I agree that he didn't click with Zuccarello for some reason. Rossi couldn't stay on the top line either. But I'm 100% sure that Hynes wants to keep Zucc up there because of his vision and passing abilities.

So if not 2nd line for Rossi, where does he fit? This is why I think there's some truth in this trade talk.

 

[57special]

There's something going on with Rossi, I agree that he didn't click with Zuccarello for some reason. Rossi couldn't stay on the top line either. But I'm 100% sure that Hynes wants to keep Zucc up there because of his vision and passing abilities.

So if not 2nd line for Rossi, where does he fit? This is why I think there's some truth in this trade talk.

He stays, Zucc goes. You build your team around a 22 yo Center, not a 37 yo wing. It might be different if we were all in for 24-25, but we just aren't going to be competing for a Cup until we get rid of the cap penalties.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Your logic is flawed.

Zucc + Rossi had just as much time 5v5 time together before (297 mins) and after (291 mins) Feb 7th.

Rossi + Kap ToI dropped from 307mins to 144 mins, Zucc + Kap ToI dropped from 375 mins to 129 mins in your timeframe.

I agree Zucc and Rossi don't mix well. But when they stopped getting ToI with the by far best winger on the team and the results reflect that (neither had much time with Boldy).

Rossi's points:

1. Rossi (Foligno, Faber) 10/14
2. Rossi (Hartman, Middleton) 10/24
3. Foligno (Johansson, Rossi) 10/26
4. Rossi (Foligno, Johansson) 10/27
5. Rossi (Boldy, Brodin) 11/2
6. Middleton (Boldy, Rossi) 11/2
7. Rossi (Kaprizov, Boldy) 11/4
8. Letteri (Rossi, Brodin) 11/12
9. Rossi (Faber, Zuccarello) 11/18
10. Merrill (Rossi, Zuccarello) 11/19
11.Kaprizov (Rossi) 11/24
12. Dewar (Duhaime, Rossi) 11/30
13. Rossi (Faber, Zuccarello) 12/3
14. Rossi (Gaudreau, Faber) 12/3
15. Kaprizov (Rossi, Zuccarello) 12/5
16. Rossi (Zuccarello) 12/10
17. Rossi (Goligoski, Johansson) 12/14
18. Hartman (Rossi) 12/19
19. Boldy (Kaprizov, Rossi) 12/21
20. Rossi (Bogosian, Foligno) 12/21
21. Faber (Kaprizov, Rossi) 12/21
22. Johansson (Rossi) 12/27
23. Maroon (Petan, Rossi) 1/2
24. Rossi (Boldy, Faber) 1/6
25. Rossi (Middleton, Kaprizov) 1/18
26. Middleton (Rossi, Zuccarello) 1/18
27. Kaprizov (Goligoski, Rossi) 1/21
28. Faber (Zuccarello, Rossi) 1/23
29. Rossi (Boldy, Faber) 2/12
30. Chisholm (Johansson, Rossi) 2/17
31. Rossi (Lucchini, Lettieri) 2/19
32. Rossi (Chisholm, Gaudreau) 2/20
33. Rossi (Kaprizov) 2/20
34. Bogosian (Rossi, Brodin) 3/14
35. Rossi (Kaprizov) 3/16
36. Rossi (Kaprizov) 3/23
37. Rossi (Zuccarello, Kaprizov) 3/23
38. Rossi (Zuccarello, Kaprizov) 4/7
39. Boldy (Rossi, Faber) 4/15
40. Kaprizov (Rossi, Middleton) 4/15

13/40 points Kap played a direct part in. 7 before Feb 7th and 6 after. I'm willing to bet that a much larger portion of Eriksson Ek's and Boldy's points have Kaprizov as a direct contributor.

I think this shows that Johansson/Zuccarello are terrible options for Rossi. Hartman with Rossi yields some pretty nice underlying numbers. Same with Foligno.

 

[NHL1674]

He stays, Zucc goes. You build your team around a 22 yo Center, not a 37 yo wing. It might be different if we were all in for 24-25, but we just aren't going to be competing for a Cup until we get rid of the cap penalties.

That's what scares me. There are rumors that BG is looking to find a player via trade just to pair up with Zucc. Would this trade include a guy like Rossi? Because it would be stupid to send away a budding, young centerman for a player to help out Zucc who probably won't even be here that much longer.

 

[Webster]

He stays, Zucc goes. You build your team around a 22 yo Center, not a 37 yo wing. It might be different if we were all in for 24-25, but we just aren't going to be competing for a Cup until we get rid of the cap penalties.

Your problem with this is that Guerin doesn't want to hear about it. His mission is to win the Cup and construct the best possible team for next season, that's why Zucc's experience and skills will be important. The GM won't put his assist leader and 0.91 PPG player last season on the 3rd line, as long as he keeps producing.

 

[Sweetnut]

The most important thing should always be to pad 50 year old Zuke's secondary assist numbers as he rides into the sunset, not securing the team's future.
So yes, keep him in the first line and trade away the future.
Because, why not?

 

[Digitalbooya]

There's something going on with Rossi, I agree that he didn't click with Zuccarello for some reason. Rossi couldn't stay on the top line either. But I'm 100% sure that Hynes wants to keep Zucc up there because of his vision and passing abilities.

So if not 2nd line for Rossi, where does he fit? This is why I think there's some truth in this trade talk.

I doubt that Hynes wants to stick Zucc on the top line after Kap-Ek-Boldy just annihilated everything.

Working from the premise that Kap-Ek-Boldy stays together, separating Rossi/Zucc, and demoting Johansson:

Kap-Ek-Boldy
Heidt-Rossi-Hartman
Ohgren-Khusnutdinov-Zucc (mentoring the young'ins)
Foligno-Gaudreau-Johansson

 

[57special]

Your problem with this is that Guerin doesn't want to hear about it. His mission is to win the Cup and construct the best possible team for next season, that's why Zucc's experience and skills will be important. The GM won't put his assist leader and 0.91 PPG player last season on the 3rd line, as long as he keeps producing.

You can't be that naive, can you?

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

I don't know if I'm crazy about a McGroarty for Rossi swap., considering that he is a LHS winger. Certainly would leave to door wide open for Bankier if they did the trade.

Firmly on the fence. I could see WPG not being crazy about the deal, either, as they already have a similar player to Rossi in Perfetti, but they would be behind the 8 ball with RM making not wanting to sign with them, so they might have to take what they can get.

I feel like McGroarty could be a Tkachuk-lite. I don’t think he’s ever going to be a top like scorer but he could be a fan favorite for a long time and maybe even a captain.

You can't be that naive, can you?

You mean the world does not revolve around the 36 year old winger?

 

[57special]

That's what scares me. There are rumors that BG is looking to find a player via trade just to pair up with Zucc. Would this trade include a guy like Rossi? Because it would be stupid to send away a budding, young centerman for a player to help out Zucc who probably won't even be here that much longer.

I'm fine with keeping Zucc(cause we have to, anyway), and trading Rossi, if it's a good return. We aren't going anywhere next season, so a really good prospect works, for me.

I like Zucc, but he is a very old player that is probably going to fall off a cliff anytime now. Counting on him to do much besides nice, complementary, PP TOI and ok middle six play is crazy.

I feel like McGroarty could be a Tkachuk-lite. I don’t think he’s ever going to be a top like scorer but he could be a fan favorite for a long time and maybe even a captain.


You mean the world does not revolve around the 36 year old winger?

But does he have any FU in his game?

Let's stop with the Captain talk. We all know it is reserved for Kunin. JEE, Faber, Kaprizov... they all need to wait their turn.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It's way too much to ask for a rookie to do for Zucc what Kaprizov does for Zucc.

He's fine on the 2nd line if Zucc is on the 1st or 3rd.

 

[Wabit]

Rossi's points:

1. Rossi (Foligno, Faber) 10/14
2. Rossi (Hartman, Middleton) 10/24
3. Foligno (Johansson, Rossi) 10/26
4. Rossi (Foligno, Johansson) 10/27
5. Rossi (Boldy, Brodin) 11/2
6. Middleton (Boldy, Rossi) 11/2
7. Rossi (Kaprizov, Boldy) 11/4
8. Letteri (Rossi, Brodin) 11/12
9. Rossi (Faber, Zuccarello) 11/18
10. Merrill (Rossi, Zuccarello) 11/19
11.Kaprizov (Rossi) 11/24
12. Dewar (Duhaime, Rossi) 11/30
13. Rossi (Faber, Zuccarello) 12/3
14. Rossi (Gaudreau, Faber) 12/3
15. Kaprizov (Rossi, Zuccarello) 12/5
16. Rossi (Zuccarello) 12/10
17. Rossi (Goligoski, Johansson) 12/14
18. Hartman (Rossi) 12/19
19. Boldy (Kaprizov, Rossi) 12/21
20. Rossi (Bogosian, Foligno) 12/21
21. Faber (Kaprizov, Rossi) 12/21
22. Johansson (Rossi) 12/27
23. Maroon (Petan, Rossi) 1/2
24. Rossi (Boldy, Faber) 1/6
25. Rossi (Middleton, Kaprizov) 1/18
26. Middleton (Rossi, Zuccarello) 1/18
27. Kaprizov (Goligoski, Rossi) 1/21
28. Faber (Zuccarello, Rossi) 1/23
29. Rossi (Boldy, Faber) 2/12
30. Chisholm (Johansson, Rossi) 2/17
31. Rossi (Lucchini, Lettieri) 2/19
32. Rossi (Chisholm, Gaudreau) 2/20
33. Rossi (Kaprizov) 2/20
34. Bogosian (Rossi, Brodin) 3/14
35. Rossi (Kaprizov) 3/16
36. Rossi (Kaprizov) 3/23
37. Rossi (Zuccarello, Kaprizov) 3/23
38. Rossi (Zuccarello, Kaprizov) 4/7
39. Boldy (Rossi, Faber) 4/15
40. Kaprizov (Rossi, Middleton) 4/15

13/40 points Kap played a direct part in. 7 before Feb 7th and 6 after. I'm willing to bet that a much larger portion of Eriksson Ek's and Boldy's points have Kaprizov as a direct contributor.

I think this shows that Johansson/Zuccarello are terrible options for Rossi. Hartman with Rossi yields some pretty nice underlying numbers. Same with Foligno.

If Rossi has a point for oiGF, he has a possible 19p (690 mins).

Your numbers just reinforce what I was saying. It's not Zucc that brought Rossi down, it's that Kap boosted their totals. Kap does with pretty much every other FWD on the team.

 

[Digitalbooya]

If Rossi has a point for oiGF, he has a possible 19p (690 mins).

Your numbers just reinforce what I was saying. It's not Zucc that brought Rossi down, it's that Kap boosted their totals. Kap does with pretty much every other FWD on the team.

No, the point pretty clearly reinforces that the wingers Rossi was given after Feb 7th do not work well with him as Rossi had PLENTY of points where Kaprizov wasn't involved at all prior to Feb 7th.

You're focusing way too much on Kaprizov and not enough on everything else. Let me simplify it for you:

Without Kaprizov contributing to the points:

1. Rossi (Foligno, Faber) 10/14
2. Rossi (Hartman, Middleton) 10/24
3. Foligno (Johansson, Rossi) 10/26
4. Rossi (Foligno, Johansson) 10/27
5. Rossi (Boldy, Brodin) 11/2
6. Middleton (Boldy, Rossi) 11/2
8. Letteri (Rossi, Brodin) 11/12
9. Rossi (Faber, Zuccarello) 11/18
10. Merrill (Rossi, Zuccarello) 11/19
12. Dewar (Duhaime, Rossi) 11/30
13. Rossi (Faber, Zuccarello) 12/3
14. Rossi (Gaudreau, Faber) 12/3
16. Rossi (Zuccarello) 12/10
17. Rossi (Goligoski, Johansson) 12/14
18. Hartman (Rossi) 12/19
20. Rossi (Bogosian, Foligno) 12/21
22. Johansson (Rossi) 12/27
23. Maroon (Petan, Rossi) 1/2
24. Rossi (Boldy, Faber) 1/6
26. Middleton (Rossi, Zuccarello) 1/18
28. Faber (Zuccarello, Rossi) 1/23
49gp 11g 10a 21pts (.43 points per game)

29. Rossi (Boldy, Faber) 2/12
30. Chisholm (Johansson, Rossi) 2/17
31. Rossi (Lucchini, Lettieri) 2/19
32. Rossi (Chisholm, Gaudreau) 2/20
34. Bogosian (Rossi, Brodin) 3/14
39. Boldy (Rossi, Faber) 4/15
33gp 3g 3a 6pts (.18 points per game)

In your mind, what could possibly be causing the discrepancy in points per game pre and post February 7th? Is Kaprizov just on the ice for all those points before February 7 but doesn't contribute?

 

[AKL]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1804587961939558676

What should we offer? Sounds like McGroarty views himself as NHL ready.

Thinking I'd probably offer 13 and 45 and keep Rossi

Kaprizov-Rossi-Boldy
Zuccarello-Ek-McGroarty
Ohgren-Hartman-Foligno
Johansson-Khusnutdinov-Gaudreau

The next season you can move Hartman or Rossi to wing if you want to slot Yurov down the middle, or break Yurov in as a winger, and that's a pretty deep and good young core with Boldy, Rossi, McGroarty, Ohgren and Yurov

 

[AKL]

Does the situation with Gauthier and now McGroarty influence your opinion on taking guys out of the NCAA or USNTDP? It's practically a loophole at this point to be able to choose your team and guarantee an NHL spot within four years (even a guy like McBain was able to do this).

 

[Wabit]

No, the point pretty clearly reinforces that the wingers Rossi was given after Feb 7th do not work well with him as Rossi had PLENTY of points where Kaprizov wasn't involved at all prior to Feb 7th.

You're focusing way too much on Kaprizov and not enough on everything else. Let me simplify it for you:

Without Kaprizov contributing to the points:

1. Rossi (Foligno, Faber) 10/14
2. Rossi (Hartman, Middleton) 10/24
3. Foligno (Johansson, Rossi) 10/26
4. Rossi (Foligno, Johansson) 10/27
5. Rossi (Boldy, Brodin) 11/2
6. Middleton (Boldy, Rossi) 11/2
8. Letteri (Rossi, Brodin) 11/12
9. Rossi (Faber, Zuccarello) 11/18
10. Merrill (Rossi, Zuccarello) 11/19
12. Dewar (Duhaime, Rossi) 11/30
13. Rossi (Faber, Zuccarello) 12/3
14. Rossi (Gaudreau, Faber) 12/3
16. Rossi (Zuccarello) 12/10
17. Rossi (Goligoski, Johansson) 12/14
18. Hartman (Rossi) 12/19
20. Rossi (Bogosian, Foligno) 12/21
22. Johansson (Rossi) 12/27
23. Maroon (Petan, Rossi) 1/2
24. Rossi (Boldy, Faber) 1/6
26. Middleton (Rossi, Zuccarello) 1/18
28. Faber (Zuccarello, Rossi) 1/23
49gp 11g 10a 21pts (.43 points per game)

29. Rossi (Boldy, Faber) 2/12
30. Chisholm (Johansson, Rossi) 2/17
31. Rossi (Lucchini, Lettieri) 2/19
32. Rossi (Chisholm, Gaudreau) 2/20
34. Bogosian (Rossi, Brodin) 3/14
39. Boldy (Rossi, Faber) 4/15
33gp 3g 3a 6pts (.18 points per game)

In your mind, what could possibly be causing the discrepancy in points per game pre and post February 7th? Is Kaprizov just on the ice for all those points before February 7 but doesn't contribute?

It's kinda crazy that moving Zucc to Rossi's wing had a such a dramatic negative impact on both of their numbers.

This is the statistically inaccurate statement you made. This is what I was responding too. Zucc was on Rossi's wing just as much prior to Feb 7th as he was after this date. I then pointed out the difference is that Kap is no longer carrying those 2. The thing that changed was Kaprizov wasn't lon a line with them near as much.

You've moved the goalposts from that statement.

Just as an FYI Kap was on the ice for each of these Rossi points.
5, 6, 9, 10, 13, 20, 26, 28, 32, 39

So it's really more like 13p and 4p all situations split without Kap. 17p without Kap on the ice, 23p with Kap on the ice for the season. Rossi had 28p Feb 7th.

So all situations: 13 of his 28p came w/o Kap before the split. 4 or his 12p after the split were w/o Kap.

13p in 465 mins (1.68 p/60) w/o Kap, 15p in 357 mins (2.5 p/60) w/Kap
4p in 374 mins (0.65 p/60) w/o Kap, 8p in 175 mins (2.76 p/60) w/Kap

It was the step down from Kap to MarJo that killed Rossi + Zucc line 5v5 in the 2nd half. Rossi + Zucc w/o MarJo was just under 3gf/60 (9g in 182 mins). Add in MarJo and it dropped to just over 0.5gf/60 (1g in 108 mins). Rossi + Zucc w/o Kap or MarJo was still a decent 2.13 gf/60 (3gf in 84 mins). That MarJo/Rossi/Zucc line just did not mix well at all.