Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24

[Wabit]

These guys all left money on the table on their deals knowing the situation we are in, random UFA targets that everyone dreams about won't have the same warm fuzzies for this team when they come to the negotiating table, if they show up at all.

Who left money on the table?
-Spurgeon became a top 10 paid d-man in the league when he signed his deal. He's never been a top-10 d-man league wide. Too much money and too much term.
-Foligno isn't worth $4m. Too much money and too much term
-Brodin is fairly paid at $6m/yr. Fair deal.
-JEE is underpaid.
-Zucc should have been a 1 yr deal with incentives.
-MarJo got a raise from his last 2 contracts in term and money for 1 good month.
-Hartman, maybe left money on the table. He's a 3C at best on quality teams.
-Boldy is severely overpaid for what he is as a player. This should have been a bridge deal, not the contract that was signed.
-Kap is fairly paid for a contract that is 3 RFA years and 2 UFA years. For his 51p in 55 games it's probably an overpay for what he produced. And that is him getting completely out of a year on his ELC.
-Freddy G got a dumb amount of term.
-Goli... Not even going to bother going there
-MAF fairly paid (at the time), too much term.

Yes guys waive their NTCs. They do that to either go home and retire or to chase a Cup. They don't waive them to go play out the rest of their contract for a random bottom feeder. MN doesn't have players (contracts really) Cup teams would want. The player MN has are basically just cap dumps.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Players demanding NMCs is a good thing, it means they want to be here. It also means there are teams in this league that they do not want to be on, extremely reasonable IMO.

People waive NTCs all the time if it is to their benefit, its on Guerin to make it mutually beneficial if things do get to that point with some of these guys. As of now though, none really deserve to be traded in my opinion, it’s still an extremely small sample in the grand scheme of things, and all of our NMC guys are actually playing pretty well.

The bolded part is straight up bananas.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

The bolded part is straight up bananas.

Spurgeon Kap and Boldy injured, if that’s enough to make them all tradeable to you within 12 games then I think you are bananas. The only guys who have actually been underperforming to the point of trade are virtually gone, Addison and Mermis were the very weak links in my opinion and potentially Middleton too, he’s my only real trade consideration at the moment unless someone wants to pay stupid prices.

 

[57special]

There's a little bit of hope:
-Spurgeon's NMC turns into a 10 team no trade clause after this season
-Brodin's NMC drops off and he has zero trade protection after next season
-Hartman's NMC turns into a 15 team no trade in 25-26 and a 10 team no trade in 26-27
-Foligno's NMC turns into a 15 team no trade for 26-27 and 27-28

It's actually rather interesting that each season at least one person has less trade protection than the year prior. Maybe that was by design?

The unfortunate part about this is we obviously need Spurgeon and Brodin, so we are locked into them/this roster for at least two years or until Spacek/Lambos/Hunt/O'Rourke/Peart/etc force their way onto the NHL roster to allow for a trade.

Do we? We have them now, and aren't going anywhere. I would look to move spurgeon, and keep Brodin, as he is younger, and has a smaller cap hit. I am hoping that Faber's development, and at least one of ROR/Hunt/spacek/Peart, make Spurgeon tradable this summer. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him gone, as he is still a vg player, but a team like EDM would mortgage their future for a player like him, and since we won't be a viable contender till 25-26 at the earliest, I think ti's time to move him on(if we get our price), even though it will hurt us in the short term.

We would get even more for him if we could trade him mid season, but in order to do that we'd have to convince him to drop his NMC, and EDM would have to convince him that they aren't a dysfunctional mess, and worth going to. We'd also have to take on some bad cap....EDM has next to no cap space.

 

[57special]

Spurgeon Kap and Boldy injured, if that’s enough to make them all tradeable to you within 12 games then I think you are bananas. The only guys who have actually been underperforming to the point of trade are virtually gone, Addison and Mermis were the very weak links in my opinion and potentially Middleton too, he’s my only real trade consideration at the moment unless someone wants to pay stupid prices.

I think your expectations are off kilter. No one in their right mind expects Mermis(800K AHL'er) to be a vital cog in this team. Kaprizov(9M), and Boldy(7M) are paid to be top offensive players, not guys who are being outscored by at ES by a plodding defensive Dman making 2M(Middleton), and Mermis. That is f***ing disgraceful.

ES goal scoring

Middleton(2.45M) - 3
Mermis(775 K) -2
Merrill(1.2M) - 1
Kaprizov(9M) -1
Boldy(7M) -1

Boldy and Kaprizov are stealing money right now.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Do we? We have them now, and aren't going anywhere. I would look to move spurgeon, and keep Brodin, as he is younger, and has a smaller cap hit. I am hoping that Faber's development, and at least one of ROR/Hunt/spacek/Peart, make Spurgeon tradable this summer. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him gone, as he is still a vg player, but a team like EDM would mortgage their future for a player like him, and since we won't be a viable contender till 25-26 at the earliest, I think ti's time to move him on(if we get our price), even though it will hurt us in the short term.

We would get even more for him if we could trade him mid season, but in order to do that we'd have to convince him to drop his NMC, and EDM would have to convince him that they aren't a dysfunctional mess, and worth going to. We'd also have to take on some bad cap....EDM has next to no cap space.

So basically the hope is that Spacek replaces Spurgeon. Hunt/O’Rourke/Peart are all LD and irrelevant. I would argue that having Lambos (which was odd that you didn’t include him)/Hunt/O’Rourke/Peart make Brodin expendable when his NMC drops. Lambos will be 22, Hunt 23, O’Rourke 23, Spacek 22, and Peart 22. 22-23 is the prime age that players break into the NHL.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

I think your expectations are off kilter. No one in their right mind expects Mermis(800K AHL'er) to be a vital cog in this team. Kaprizov(9M), and Boldy(7M) are paid to be top offensive players, not guys who are being outscored by at ES by a plodding defensive Dman making 2M(Middleton), and Mermis. That is f***ing disgraceful.

ES goal scoring

Middleton(2.45M) - 3
Mermis(775 K) -2
Merrill(1.2M) - 1
Kaprizov(9M) -1
Boldy(7M) -1

Boldy and Kaprizov are stealing money right now.

Now look at the goals against, I don’t expect those bottom guys to be positive contributors on the scoresheet, but I do expect them to not be giving up demoralizing goals every single game, which they were. The top guys have justifiable reasons for their underperformance so far and we committed to them, why do their NMCs matter at all right now? They either rebound with us or we fail, they wouldn’t be trade candidates right now NMC or not.

 

[TaLoN]

Now look at the goals against, I don’t expect those bottom guys to be positive contributors on the scoresheet, but I do expect them to not be giving up demoralizing goals every single game, which they were. The top guys have justifiable reasons for their underperformance so far and we committed to them, why do their NMCs matter at all right now? They either rebound with us or we fail, they wouldn’t be trade candidates right now NMC or not.

Why wouldn't they be trade candidates? You have to give something to get something.
Just because we rely on them doesn't make them untradable.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Why wouldn't they be trade candidates? You have to give something to get something.
Just because we rely on them doesn't make them untradable.

I have my doubts they trade Boldy with less than 10 games into his 7 year contract, and Guerin has been pretty adamant about doing anything possible to keep Kaprizov around.

 

[Spurgeon]

Do we? We have them now, and aren't going anywhere. I would look to move spurgeon, and keep Brodin, as he is younger, and has a smaller cap hit. I am hoping that Faber's development, and at least one of ROR/Hunt/spacek/Peart, make Spurgeon tradable this summer. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him gone, as he is still a vg player, but a team like EDM would mortgage their future for a player like him, and since we won't be a viable contender till 25-26 at the earliest, I think ti's time to move him on(if we get our price), even though it will hurt us in the short term.

We would get even more for him if we could trade him mid season, but in order to do that we'd have to convince him to drop his NMC, and EDM would have to convince him that they aren't a dysfunctional mess, and worth going to. We'd also have to take on some bad cap....EDM has next to no cap space.

I think moving Spurgeon would be a mistake. I don’t think any of the pieces we’d get in a trade for him would benefit the team’s overall chances of winning a cup. It might marginally improve the long-term outlook of the team, but they’ve drafted enough prospects in the past few years to shift the focus to the short-term.

Despite the team’s poor start to the year, I don’t think the cup window has changed. The 24-25 and 25-26 seasons are going to be the best shot they have. They shouldn’t just write off next season and focus on 25-26 solely due to the dead cap falling off the books. The dead cap is sort of irrelevant to the window because Rossi, Faber, and Wallstedt are going to get contracts that will likely eat up most of it anyways.

This team has touted their deep prospect pool for a couple years now. They’ve got to hope they can add a few of them next season, add on at the TDL, and make a run. As things stand right now, this team has absolutely no one capable of replacing Spurgeon. Unless they can target someone in FA, trading him would be a mistake.

 

[Wasted Talent]

When was the last time Wild were bottom 5 in the standings?

 

[BagHead]

Do we? We have them now, and aren't going anywhere. I would look to move spurgeon, and keep Brodin, as he is younger, and has a smaller cap hit. I am hoping that Faber's development, and at least one of ROR/Hunt/spacek/Peart, make Spurgeon tradable this summer. Don't get me wrong, I don't want him gone, as he is still a vg player, but a team like EDM would mortgage their future for a player like him, and since we won't be a viable contender till 25-26 at the earliest, I think ti's time to move him on(if we get our price), even though it will hurt us in the short term.

We would get even more for him if we could trade him mid season, but in order to do that we'd have to convince him to drop his NMC, and EDM would have to convince him that they aren't a dysfunctional mess, and worth going to. We'd also have to take on some bad cap....EDM has next to no cap space.

This made me wonder how a Spurgeon to the Oilers trade would work. It seems like the Wild would have to take on Jack Campbell. That would give the Oilers $0 cap space, and still needing to shed $3,659,932 more. That would probably have to come from their defenseman since they'd be taking Spurgeon on. Ceci is only $3,250,000, so I'm not sure he'd work. Ekholm is the next defenseman up on their pay chart at $6,000,000, but that would leave us in the hole, needing to clear space to the tune of $2,265,132. I also don't have any idea how the Oilers feel about Ekholm's play. Maybe he's a bright spot on their team, for all I know. I think a 3rd team is required as a cap-space broker in this trade, which would definitely dig into our return.

Even in the off-season, the only player with real cap coming off their roster is Warren Foegele, but he isn't paid enough to clear that much. The Wild have MAF and Goligoski coming off their roster in the off-season, so that combined with Warren and the trading to us of Campbell could potentially work. Wallstedt would be buried in the AHL for 2 more years.

It's possible, but I'm not seeing an easy path to trading Spurgeon to them, and I'm not really seeing any path in-season.

When was the last time Wild were bottom 5 in the standings?

Never. The inaugural season was their worst finish. They finished 25th out of 30 teams, so they finished 6th worst. And got Koivu from it.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

This made me wonder how a Spurgeon to the Oilers trade would work. It seems like the Wild would have to take on Jack Campbell. That would give the Oilers $0 cap space, and still needing to shed $3,659,932 more. That would probably have to come from their defenseman since they'd be taking Spurgeon on. Ceci is only $3,250,000, so I'm not sure he'd work. Ekholm is the next defenseman up on their pay chart at $6,000,000, but that would leave us in the hole, needing to clear space to the tune of $2,265,132. I also don't have any idea how the Oilers feel about Ekholm's play. Maybe he's a bright spot on their team, for all I know. I think a 3rd team is required as a cap-space broker in this trade, which would definitely dig into our return.

Even in the off-season, the only player with real cap coming off their roster is Warren Foegele, but he isn't paid enough to clear that much. The Wild have MAF and Goligoski coming off their roster in the off-season, so that combined with Warren and the trading to us of Campbell could potentially work. Wallstedt would be buried in the AHL for 2 more years.

It's possible, but I'm not seeing an easy path to trading Spurgeon to them, and I'm not really seeing any path in-season.


Never. The inaugural season was their worst finish. They finished 25th out of 30 teams, so they finished 6th worst. And got Koivu from it.

I’ll take the continued punishment, Spurgeon and Gus for Draisaitl and Bouchard. Adjust picks or whatever. The Wild would need another goalie in the off-season and Wallstedt would need to be deemed ready, but both teams get some needs met.

Zucc - Drai - Kap
MarJo/Yurov/Khusnutdinov - Rossi - Boldy
Foligno - JEE - Hartman
4th line

Brodin - Faber
Lambos/Peart - Bouchard
Middleton - Spacek/Merrill/whoever

Wallstedt and UFA goalie.

 

[BagHead]

I’ll take the continued punishment, Spurgeon and Gus for Draisaitl and Bouchard. Adjust picks or whatever. The Wild would need another goalie in the off-season and Wallstedt would need to be deemed ready, but both teams get some needs met.

If I were the Oilers GM I'd be asking for a lot more than Spurgeon and Gus for Drai and Bouchard. For one of the best centers in the league, and my best young defender, I'd probably require two 1st round picks on top of that package, at least. If punishment is what you want, asking for those two players will provide it for you.

 

[AKL]

If I were the Oilers GM I'd be asking for a lot more than Spurgeon and Gus for Drai and Bouchard. For one of the best centers in the league, and my best young defender, I'd probably require two 1st round picks on top of that package, at least. If punishment is what you want, asking for those two players will provide it for you.

I'd be asking to swap Spurgeon with something much better. And take out Bouchard.

Draisaitl for Faber+Gus+1st to start

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

If I were the Oilers GM I'd be asking for a lot more than Spurgeon and Gus for Drai and Bouchard. For one of the best centers in the league, and my best young defender, I'd probably require two 1st round picks on top of that package, at least. If punishment is what you want, asking for those two players will provide it for you.

If you want to swap Bouchard for Campbell I could maybe go for that too, but shifts the value a bit. I would be fine adding picks, the core roster looks pretty competitive at the top end to me and still gives us 3 great lines. Could even add Hartman or Gaudreau to sweeten, one of them would be a surplus for us at that point.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Gus is a very iffy trade asset right now.

 

[AKL]

Gus is a very iffy trade asset right now.

Yeah well we're somehow still talking about Spurgeon for Draisaitl as a base so reality doesn't apply here

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah well we're somehow still talking about Spurgeon for Draisaitl as a base so reality doesn't apply here

Fair point.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Gus is a very iffy trade asset right now.

It’s an off-season move, he would most definitely have to rebound hard. Every single asset that Edmonton has is iffy right now too, if Guerin is trading the captain to a desperate team, he better be getting back a difference maker and the Oilers only have a few.

 

[keppel146]

When was the last time Wild were bottom 5 in the standings?

2012 when we got Dumba. (Didn’t end there obviously)

 

[BagHead]

2012 when we got Dumba. (Didn’t end there obviously)

It seems clear to me now that I misread his question as "finished". Good call.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

2012 when we got Dumba. (Didn’t end there obviously)

Fun what-if: the Wild do finish lower in the standings and end up drafting Griffin Reinhart whom they flip to the Oilers at the 2015 draft, acquiring the Oilers 1st which they use to pick Kyle Connor, keeping their own which they use on JEE, and the Oilers 2nd which they use on Sebastian Aho.

Oh well, can't save NHL GMs from themselves.

 

[BagHead]

Fun what-if: the Wild do finish lower in the standings and end up drafting Griffin Reinhart whom they flip to the Oilers at the 2015 draft, acquiring the Oilers 1st which they use to pick Kyle Connor, keeping their own which they use on JEE, and the Oilers 2nd which they use on Sebastian Aho.

Oh well, can't save NHL GMs from themselves.

They honestly avoided a few hand grenades by drafting later. It's entirely possible they'd have drafted Galchenyuk or Reinhart and kept him.

 

[TaLoN]

I have my doubts they trade Boldy with less than 10 games into his 7 year contract, and Guerin has been pretty adamant about doing anything possible to keep Kaprizov around.

It's a lost cause with Kap. If he wants to win, Billy has made it clear he'll have to go elsewhere. We're far better off trading him.