Obvious Fabertism
Registered User
It’s a bit out there to think he would be at all likely to hit any of the bonuses, did Kaprizov even hit any his rookie season? If that’s the main hold up, I think it gets done and he comes over.
Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24
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I’ll give a star to Guerin for:
-getting Yurov over (if he does)
-winning the Fiala trade
-finding solid players for little payment (Chisholm, Middleton, Bogosian, etc)
-drafting Rossi, Yurov, Wallstedt, Ohgren, etc
-the Nyquist/Johansson trades
-the Greenway trade
-Eriksson Ek contract
-getting Yurov over (if he does)
-winning the Fiala trade
-finding solid players for little payment (Chisholm, Middleton, Bogosian, etc)
-drafting Rossi, Yurov, Wallstedt, Ohgren, etc
-the Nyquist/Johansson trades
-the Greenway trade
-Eriksson Ek contract
Spurgeon
Registered User
Bonuses should be irrelevant. Team has plenty of cap space next year and the year after to cover any overages.
Spurgeon
Registered User
It really doesn't make any sense. It's an extra $3.5M in the extremely unlikely scenario that he does the following.
Completes any 4 of the following A-Level Bonuses ($250K per bonus):
- 20 goals
- 35 assists
- 60 points
- Top six in Time on Ice among forwards (in total and/or per game) on team (minimum 42 games)
- Top three in +/- among forwards on team (minimum 42 games)
- 0.73 points per game (minimum 42 games)
- End-of Season All Rookie Team
- All Star Selection
- All Star MVP
AND
Completes any of the following B-Level Bonuses ($2.5M bonus if any achieved):
- Forwards: Top Ten in NHL Forward Goals, Assists, points, or points per game (min 42 GP)
- Win any of the following trophies: Hart, Selke, Richard, Conn Smythe, Norris
- 1st or 2nd team All-Star
We should remember that this was a one year coaching anomaly and not something special the gm did, we didn't make the playoffs the two seasons before or after.
Nothing Big Brain Billy did with Fiala is a win. Fiala wanted to sign long term and Billy tried to play hardball and lost. Just because Faber is an amazing talent doesn’t excuse Guerin pissing away the 2nd best forward this team has ever had.
MuckOG
Registered User
- May 18, 2012
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Would you rather have Fiala or Faber (and Ohgren)? You can't have them both.
I would take Faber every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Ohgren only sweetens that deal.
I’m not so sure. Boldy Fiala was every bit as electric as peak Kap Zucc. That was awesome insane hockey to watch. Supremely entertaining. I’d probably rather have had Fiala at 7x6 than Faber. Now when you look at it as Faber/Yurov? Yah I don’t want to undo that trade.
MuckOG
Registered User
- May 18, 2012
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- 5,895
Don't get me wrong, I liked Fiala and he could be very electric. But he was also very streaky and would disappear for what seemed like weeks at a time, before ripping off another streak. I realize that its not uncommon for offensive players to go through streaks, but Fiala seemed extraordinarily streaky.
I haven't followed Fiala much since he went to LA, but there has been some grumbling about him by fans of the Kings. Poor attitude and streakiness seem to be the biggest complaints.
I just think a 1D like Faber carries a lot more value than a scoring winger like Fiala. Just my opinion.
I have a tough time indicting Fiala for his being streaky here being he never had quality teammates for most of his time. I agree Faber carries more value.
I liked Fiala, a lot, and thought it was a mistake to trade for a 3-4 year NCAA guy who was going to be a middle pairing NHL Dman at best. The 1st was nice, too but very unlikely to be what Fiala was.
I was wrong. Guerin was right, or at least, he did a great job of getting himself out of the corner he had painted himself into.
I was wrong. Guerin was right, or at least, he did a great job of getting himself out of the corner he had painted himself into.
I'm sure the kings would like that too but we can't just make up numbers here.
Did the kings have an opportunity to sign him for that or something like it? Because Guerin sure as f*** did.
If we are playing hypotheticals then by all means have at it.
DANOZ28
Registered User
i agree with posters that say nobody not even the kings knew how well faber would play. at time of trade i was disappointed we didn't receive an extra 2nd rnd pick but fiala was holding all the cards. now given the cap relief & faber being a stud we atleast broke even i think. if ohgren is a nhl'r we probably won the trade.
It’s not hypothetical at all. Fiala wanted a long term deal and it would have been less than what he got from the kings by a decent chunk. Those are facts as reported at the time. Billy decided to screw him around with short deals and arbitration.
Risebrough made the playoffs 3/9 years. The Wild got out of the first round one time. By what metric is that good? Mandate to win? Don't make me laugh.
No sorry , maybe you need to have that word defined for you. I think you’re misunderstanding its meaning.
Which definition don't you understand? You statement is not a fact, it is very possible but not proven to be a true statement because it didn't happen. Woulda coulda shoulda, but didn't.
It didn’t happen because Guerin chose not to make it happen. It’s not hard to grasp
Expansion teams don't succeed traditionally the first handful of years they are in existence. That was especially true during that expansion era (Atlanta, Columbus, Nashville, Minnesota) when teams were fed table scraps to field a team. The Wild overachieved over all 4 of those teams for several years because they found key role players and built the team around JL's use of the trap to emphasize defense and two-way play over a bunch of flashy offensive prowess. That was entirely done because there was no way ANY expansion team was going to court a top offensive free agent to the team.
So the definition of success for DR for his tenure could be measured on how successful the team was in both making playoffs and where they were finishing in the division. Especially compared to their expansion counterparts. Keep in mind as well, when they came into existence is smack dab when the Red Wings were literally a dynasty for the better part of 6 years at that point and Colorado was equally a team compromised of Hall of Famers.
The biggest slight at DR was he either traded away 1st round picks, or they completely bombed out (which was the running joke here for the longest time).
Playoff Appearances:
Atlanta - 1999
Columbus - 2009
Minnesota - 2003, 2007, 2008
Nashville - 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010
And keep in mind, Nashville came into existence in the 98-99 season. So they had 5 seasons of essentially finishing 4th in the Central before they finally made the playoffs just before the lockout season. The Wild made it in 3.
This is ultimately why many fans (me included) believe elevated so quickly that it impacted the team's ability to draft key players to address the talent gaps.
We didn't see a "splash" until Parise/Suter came to be....and that was only because we could afford both of them based on all the stuff that came out later on about Detroit.
Norris voting means jack and squat to me if it's not ~top-5.
Spurgeon's vote totals (~200 voters every year) for those Norris years:
16-17: 13th, 3 votes
18-19: 11th, 1 vote
19-20: 19th, 1 vote
21-22: 15th, 1 vote
22-23: 13th, 5 votes
x-stats are pretty meaningless to me also. They are
My opinion on olympic teams is fine, but it's not wrong. He wouldn't make any of those 3 squads. He would be on the Canada "C" team.
Spurgeon is a 2nd pair d-man, not a 1D. He's a good player, for sure, but he's worth his pay. Go back again and look at some other stats like 5v5 ToI for those years since Suter left. He's near the bottom on the team. Look at his QoC, and he;s not playing against the top lines. He's not a PP1 player. He's been way overused on the PK. Dumba and now Faber have been the 1RD the last few seasons.
The real kicker is that the team doesn't miss him at all when he's not in the lineup. Kap is a true top-10 player at his position, and a very noticeable absence if he's not on the ice. Brodin and JEE are not top 20 at their positions and it's noticeable when they are out.
After the 18-19 season is when he signed that albatross of a contract.
19-20: 62 of 69 games. 7 missed (10% of the season)- would have been his contract year had he not signed so early.
20-21: 54 of 56 games, 2 missed (4% of the season)
21-22: 65 of 82 games, 17 missed (21% of the season)
22-23: 79 of 82 games, 3 missed (4% of the season)
23-24: 16 of 82 games, 66 games missed (80% of the season)
total: 276 of 371 games, 95 games missed (26% of total games missed)
Even if you throw out the seasons under 5% of games missed he's still missed 10% or more of the games in 3 of 5 seasons since he signed his contract. It's not like this missing games to injury came out of nowhere, it's been that way his whole career. Brodin isn't any better in the injury department. Compare that to a player like Suter or Burns; who rarely missed any games and make top tier money for their position.
For his career 14 seasons (counting this year and his rookie year as a full season) and 1075 possible games he's missed 208 games (19%). Take those 2 seasons out and he's played in 798 of 911 possible games (12% missed). There is only 3 seasons where he hasn't missed at least 5% of the games and 5 seasons of not missing 10% of the games.
5v5 he's good for 6g/14a 20p (7g/17a 24p ES) per season. He'll chip in 12p on the PP (before he lost the PP1 spot last year). Those are decent numbers for a d-man, but nothing special.
Last year Spurgeon was 74th in total d-man 5v5 ToI (3rd in MN), 108th in ToI/game (4th on MN). Dumba was over 2 mins more a game (20 of those games were without Brodin).
GAR is a stat I can't look up (no evolving hockey sub).
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