Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24

[Wabit]

I posted reply and realized it was pointless. So you get this edit instead.

 

[Circulartheory]

I posted reply and realized it was pointless. So you get this edit instead.

I've done that twice already lol wrote long responses but never pressed post. not that I'm hating on anyone...I just know where it's going when there's better discussions to be had

 

[BagHead]

4th line grinder, no. 3rd line player who shows he actually belongs in the NHL? Yes.

Again, just because the player is on the third line doesn’t make them a grinder. The issue here is Foligno is on that line, not that Rossi is on that line.

Chicken/egg, who cares. Why can’t you guys just admit it, you want Rossi to be given special treatment over established players like Hartman and Eriksson Ek. That’s really what you are saying.

I'll compromise. I want him to be given special treatment over Hartman, but not Eriksson Ek. Eriksson Ek is the most special of boys.

 

[AKL]

I don't know that I'd consider it special treatment to want your former 9th overall pick and top center prospect to be given a shot with top six wingers over a literal bottom six winger but to each their own.

 

[AKL]

Rossi isn’t even close to the player Caufield is. That’s the disconnect so far in the conversation. Rossi couldn’t outplay Steel or Jost last year. Are you gonna tell me that Caufield wouldn’t have been able to outplay those guys in that role? Please…

Boldy literally was put next to Fiala because all he had to beat out were scrubs (Rask?) and there was zero chance that the GREEF line would have been broken up. It’s actually pretty arguable that Fiala’s line was the 3rd line given the usage of the Kaprizov and GREEF line.

In order to get top 6 minutes, Rossi would have to be better than Eriksson Ek and/or Hartman. Can you tell me with a straight face that Rossi is better than either one of those two? Can you tell me with a straight face that Rossi is even better than Gaudreau? I couldn’t say that without considering myself a liar.

4th line grinder, no. 3rd line player who shows he actually belongs in the NHL? Yes.

Again, just because the player is on the third line doesn’t make them a grinder. The issue here is Foligno is on that line, not that Rossi is on that line.

Chicken/egg, who cares. Why can’t you guys just admit it, you want Rossi to be given special treatment over established players like Hartman and Eriksson Ek. That’s really what you are saying.

It's obvious you're either not able to comprehend, or are completely ignoring that it's not about the line #, it's about the linemates. You wanna put guys in positions to fail until they succeed out of them, I'd rather put guys in positions to succeed until they fail out of them.

The issue here is Foligno is on that line, not that Rossi is on that line.

Like you're almost there, and then you just do a 180 and sprint away from it at full speed.

 

[MuckOG]

4th line grinder, no. 3rd line player who shows he actually belongs in the NHL? Yes.

Again, just because the player is on the third line doesn’t make them a grinder. The issue here is Foligno is on that line, not that Rossi is on that line.

Chicken/egg, who cares. Why can’t you guys just admit it, you want Rossi to be given special treatment over established players like Hartman and Eriksson Ek. That’s really what you are saying.

What I want is for a player we drafted for his offensive playmaking ability to play with line mates who can best bring that potential out in him.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

It's obvious you're either not able to comprehend, or are completely ignoring that it's not about the line #, it's about the linemates. You wanna put guys in positions to fail until they succeed out of them, I'd rather put guys in positions to succeed until they fail out of them.



Like you're almost there, and then you just do a 180 and sprint away from it at full speed.

No, you obviously can’t comprehend or are completely ignoring that one player shouldn’t just be gifted a spot they haven’t shown any semblance of deserving. You’re advocating for our best player to have a worse player, at this moment based on what we’ve seen, on their line. Guess what? Kaprizov deserving the best player available on his line trumps Rossi’s linemate needs. Sorry, not sorry. The minute Rossi is better than Hartman is the minute he gets to play above him.

You’re looking at my opinion backwards. I’m saying Foligno is the problem. They could do something about ya know? Instead of being cranky about Rossi not being in the top 6, maybe be cranky that Walker isn’t playing in Foligno’s spot. That at least makes some semblance of sense.

What I want is for a player we drafted for his offensive playmaking ability to play with line mates who can best bring that potential out in him.

That’s exactly what I’m saying. I’m just not being stupid about where he should be placed in the lineup.

 

[Circulartheory]

And its Day #2 of training camp

 

[AKL]

No, you obviously can’t comprehend or are completely ignoring that one player shouldn’t just be gifted a spot they haven’t shown any semblance of deserving. You’re advocating for our best player to have a worse player, at this moment based on what we’ve seen, on their line. Guess what? Kaprizov deserving the best player available on his line trumps Rossi’s linemate needs. Sorry, not sorry. The minute Rossi is better than Hartman is the minute he gets to play above him.

I'm advocating for Rossi to be with Boldy and Johansson but

You’re looking at my opinion backwards. I’m saying Foligno is the problem. They could do something about ya know? Instead of being cranky about Rossi not being in the top 6, maybe be cranky that Walker isn’t playing in Foligno’s spot. That at least makes some semblance of sense.

It would make more sense to repeatedly hit your head against a brick wall than to be "cranky" than Foligno is on that line. Foligno on that line is a known quantity that isn't going to change. What can change is where the centers (Eriksson Ek, Rossi, Hartman) fit in.

Kaprizov-Eriksson Ek-Zuccarello
Johansson-Rossi-Boldy
Foligno-Gaudreau-Hartman
Maroon/Khaira-Dewar-Duhaime

It's that easy. If Rossi doesn't perform over a 10-20 game stretch, THEN you make the adjustment. But you're not going to get anything out of him by playing him with Gaudreau and Foligno. If it appeases you, you can order them like this so it looks like he's still on the third line you think he needs to be on.

Kaprizov-Eriksson Ek-Zuccarello
Foligno-Gaudreau-Hartman
Johansson-Rossi-Boldy
Maroon/Khaira-Dewar-Duhaime

And I'm not going to lose sleep about moving Hartman off that line. He's a third line winger. A placeholder until we get a better center. A better center like, potentially, Rossi.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Is it still being "gifted" a spot if he looks really good in camp/preseason?

 

[AKL]

Rossi succeeding this season and moving forward benefits the entire organization moreso than running back what we did last year with Hartman in the top six, EVERYONE should have a vested interest in making sure Rossi succeeds. That's why he gets "special treatment".

And his "special treatment" is just "getting a fair shot in a situation conducive to his success" just like everyone else gets.

 

[Wabit]

I've done that twice already lol wrote long responses but never pressed post. not that I'm hating on anyone...I just know where it's going when there's better discussions to be had

I've made my feelings on the player Rossi was last season known. This is a new season, so I'm neutral about him currently. Maybe he made a leap in the offseason, maybe he didn't. I'll form a more solid opinion once the preseason games start and I see him play.

 

[Circulartheory]

I've made my feelings on the player Rossi was last season known. This is a new season, so I'm neutral about him currently. Maybe he made a leap in the offseason, maybe he didn't. I'll form a more solid opinion once the preseason games start and I see him play.

I came from a different place but basically reached the same place as you. I was encouraged by his two AHL seasons and I think they should hold positive weight, but at the same time, its still the AHL and he needed to find something new in his game. And from what I've read, he's made alot of changes this offseason (skating style, strength, confidence and comfortable living like an NHL pro etc.) so I'll also form a more solid opinion once I see him play.

At the end of the day, we are all rooting for the kid.

 

[AKL]

Is it still being "gifted" a spot if he looks really good in camp/preseason?

The impression I get is that he, while playing with Foligno and Gaudreau, will need to outscore Hartman, who will be playing with Kaprizov and Zuccarello, over a period of X number of games during the season, in order to even get a chance next to Boldy and Johansson.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Which is weird because he checked all of those boxes until Dean stashed him on the fourth line, right?

So maybe we try something different this year.

I really can't think of a reason not to start him with Boldy and Johansson other than "he has to earn it". We're not a contender, we're a fringe playoff team. We're not loaded at center (high end or depth), and this is our top center prospect. This isn't even a conversation most other teams fans would be having. Try him on that line until it doesn't work. Don't keep him off until he masters the art of grinding.

Answer to question number 1 is No. He looked lost out there regardless of where in the lineup he was.

That’s some mighty fine revisionist history though

 

[AKL]

Answer to question number 1 is No. He looked lost out there regardless of where in the lineup he was.

That’s some mighty fine revisionist history though

Weird, he looked completely lost everywhere regardless during last years camp and preseason, but everyone was excited about him and he made the roster as selected by the coaches and GM?

And I'm the one with the revisionist history?

 

[NHL1674]

And its Day #2 of training camp

Feels like the offseason never even happened.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I'm advocating for Rossi to be with Boldy and Johansson

So, basically do the same as last year minus the first two games where Rossi was on the 4th line?

Idk about others, but I don’t want to screw with the line that pulled us into the playoffs while Kaprizov was injured last year. I feel like it’s all but guaranteed that Johansson-Ek-Boldy is going to be the 2nd line to start the year.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

So, basically do the same as last year minus the first two games where Rossi was on the 4th line?

Idk about others, but I don’t want to screw with the line that pulled us into the playoffs while Kaprizov was injured last year. I feel like it’s all but guaranteed that Johansson-Ek-Boldy is going to be the 2nd line to start the year.

That shouldn’t be the line as Hartman should get bumped back down to 3RW. Ek as Kaprizovs center is what is best for both of them. He doesn’t take the stupid penalties and he does plenty of the dirty work and is a net front presence.

 

[BagHead]

I'm advocating for Rossi to be with Boldy and Johansson but

It would make more sense to repeatedly hit your head against a brick wall than to be "cranky" than Foligno is on that line. Foligno on that line is a known quantity that isn't going to change. What can change is where the centers (Eriksson Ek, Rossi, Hartman) fit in.

Kaprizov-Eriksson Ek-Zuccarello
Johansson-Rossi-Boldy
Foligno-Gaudreau-Hartman
Maroon/Khaira-Dewar-Duhaime

It's that easy. If Rossi doesn't perform over a 10-20 game stretch, THEN you make the adjustment. But you're not going to get anything out of him by playing him with Gaudreau and Foligno. If it appeases you, you can order them like this so it looks like he's still on the third line you think he needs to be on.

I think that forward lineup is reasonable for 10 games. By then you should have a decent idea of if he's capable in that spot. *Not sure I'd give him 20, that's a quarter of the season.

*unless he's succeeding or has mixed results.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

The impression I get is that he, while playing with Foligno and Gaudreau, will need to outscore Hartman, who will be playing with Kaprizov and Zuccarello, over a period of X number of games during the season, in order to even get a chance next to Boldy and Johansson.

I’d settle for him actually looking like he belongs on NHL ice. That would be a good first step.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Ek as Kaprizovs center is what is best for both of them.

Best for both of who?

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Best for both of who?

The two in the sentence you quoted.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

The two in the sentence you quoted.

Debatable. I actually think Ek’s style meshes best with Boldy. But that’s just my opinion.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Debatable. I actually think Ek’s style meshes best with Boldy. But that’s just my opinion.

I think Ek has enough offense in him to capitalize on the openings Kap creates and also mesh well with how they will attack the offensive zone. I agree he meshes well with Boldy, I just believe he can elevate more with Kap.