Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23

[thestonedkoala]

You’ll have to explain to me how STL( ROR , not their pick), CAR(Aho, 35th), Dal(Robertson 39th, Hintz 49th), LAK( Kopitar, 11th, Carter 11th), TBL(Kucherov 58th, Point 79 th) are the product of tanking. Drouin certainly didn’t work out for TBL.

St. Louis also had Pietrangelo and Schenn (via Erik Johnson). Carolina has Svechnikov, and once had Hanifin, Fleury and Lindholm. Hanifin and Lindholm netted them Phaneuf, Fox and Ferland. Dallas got Heiskanen. LA Kings had Doughty and then got Mike Richards via Schenn.

TBL also has Hedman and Stamkos.

More so, a lot of them are high second round picks (Aho 35th, Robertson 39th). You can find good players in the top of the 2nd round as some talent does drop.

We can go on and on with high draft picks who failed. You need to stop pretending that tanking is some foolproof way to winning a Cup. It isn’t. It’s a strategy that occasionally works, but is dependent on a lot of things going right besides having a high first round draft pick. The downside of tanking is that it discourages fans, players, and coaches, making it hard to attract them to the team, which makes the team worse, which makes it harder to attract said groups, which results in a downward spiral that can last for years, if not decades. All you have to do is look at the basketball team in town, which has had 4 decades of futility, and has been full of empty seats for years.

Basketball is not hockey. The fact that you have to compare basketball and hockey shows that you can't come up with a solid argument. More so, the Timberwolves like the Sabres and the Oilers are poorly ran teams. That's where the fact you have to trust your GM and your owners. The Avs put a lot of trust in Sakic and he finally delivered. They had to tank as well to get some good players in place.

If you want a good analogy, try using baseball and the Twins as that is a lesson in futility. But again that is not a good comparison due to a LOT of different factors between the sports and how they run the teams.

We can go on and on about teams that have tanked for a season or two (rebuild) and have successfully had good playoff runs. There isn't a foolproof way of building a team or else all the teams would do it but teams are understanding more and more that the best way to get talent and cheap talent is through the draft and the upper parts of the draft.

 

[BagHead]

All this tank talk... I like discussing the philosophy of it, but the Wild aren't even a tank candidate. You tank to get a superstar or two, but the Wild already have their superstar, they need to build around him. If he leaves, then you start planning to tank, if you're going to at all.

 

[thestonedkoala]

All this tank talk... I like discussing the philosophy of it, but the Wild aren't even a tank candidate. You tank to get a superstar or two, but the Wild already have their superstar, they need to build around him. If he leaves, then you start planning to tank, if you're going to at all.

The problem is that Minnesota has invested over half their cap on three wingers and two top-4 defenseman; they need a center and a top pairing defenseman. Spurgeon and Brodin are good defensemen in the regular season, but seem to come up short in the postseason.

 

[DANOZ28]

I am still a Wild fan, even though it gets frustrating. I am no longer a T’Wolves fan.

I don’t feel tempted to make the Coyotes my team because they are tanking.

im a mn hockey fan till death do us part. the wild could be 0-82 and i'd still be a fan maybe standing on the edge ready to jump but still a fan. i do reserve the right to rip & bash mgmt as needed!

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Not great. How are Hughes and Hischier working out for New Jersey?

Hischier was drafted 1st overall in 2017 and has zero playoff appearances, same amount as Hughes. Drafting 1st overall, then still sucking your way to another 1st overall years later, and waiting 5 years for maybe a playoff appearance isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of the strategy paying off.

 

[AKL]

Obviously getting the elite player from the draft isn't the end of the work, you still need to build the team around those guys. I don't think anyone has claimed that all you need to do is get Bedard and you win the Cup.

But when I look back at the teams that have won the Cup in the last 10-15 years, I see a lot of teams that obtained their core high end guys through the draft, often times top 5 picks, and relatively few that obtained their core through free agency or trading. Obviously if you have a very good scouting or development department, and still get incredibly lucky, you can find those players later in the draft too, but that's not a reliable strategy at all.

Tanking definitely fails sometimes, but we're the shining examples in the league about how perpetual mediocrity also fails. If you guys are good with more of the same for 20 more years, who am I to tell you you're wrong. I'm just ready to try something else.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Hischier was drafted 1st overall in 2017 and has zero playoff appearances, same amount as Hughes. Drafting 1st overall, then still sucking your way to another 1st overall years later, and waiting 5 years for maybe a playoff appearance isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of the strategy paying off.

BUT you can't say it hasn't paid dividends. The Devils are 32-13 after all. Which is so much better than the Wild's 27-17.

 

[AKL]

Devils current point percentage puts them at a 114p season in 82 games, Wild are at 99. That could very easily be the difference in winning your division and not making the playoffs in any given year. It's a pretty big difference.

 

[thestonedkoala]

BUT you can't say it hasn't paid dividends. The Devils are 32-13 after all. Which is so much better than the Wild's 27-17.

Let's see what happens from here but having two solid centers down the middle does pay dividends

 

[Minnewildsota]

Let's see what happens from here but having two solid centers down the middle does pay dividends

No No No. Tanking is supposed to pay dividends right away. Isn't that the whole point of tanking? You lose for the immediate gratification of high picks and the promise that they will pan out, and bring you a Stanley Cup

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Hischier was drafted 1st overall in 2017 and has zero playoff appearances, same amount as Hughes. Drafting 1st overall, then still sucking your way to another 1st overall years later, and waiting 5 years for maybe a playoff appearance isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of the strategy paying off.

2 years. Of course it takes more than just the two top 5 picks. But it's hard to argue against them being on their way.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

I think we've seen enough examples to show that landing the #1 or #2 pick in a "good" draft is just the start of the pieces that need to fall in place the right way. Scouting, development, trades, fee agency, luck......it all needs to go just right. I used to like the idea of an accidental tank where they bottom out once just because of bad luck or injury. But now I'm not even sure that the Wild have the pieces in place elsewhere to take advantage of it if it happened.

 

[Bdub]

I just dont see this team making the playoffs with the remaining schedule.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I hope they miss the playoffs this season. I am ok with missing this year, selling Greenway and Dumba at the deadline and then pushing harder for it again next season.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I hope they miss the playoffs this season. I am ok with missing this year, selling Greenway and Dumba at the deadline and then pushing harder for it again next season.

If they miss the playoffs, they aren't getting a top 10 pick, so why bother missing the playoffs?

 

[DeagleJenkins]

If they miss the playoffs, they aren't getting a top 10 pick, so why bother missing the playoffs?

you sure about that? isnt the rule you can move up 7 spots at max?

 

[AKL]

I'd rather miss the playoffs and pick 12th than watch this team squirm into another playoff spot, lose in the first round, and then pick 20th. It's not my pocket those three home playoff games are padding. Give me the better pick with the small chance to win the lottery, as well as the assets we gain by selling on Dumba and Greenway (and the assets we keep by not wasting them on more bottom six/pairing rentals).

you sure about that? isnt the rule you can move up 7 spots at max?

I think it's 10 spots.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I'd rather miss the playoffs and pick 12th than watch this team squirm into another playoff spot, lose in the first round, and then pick 20th. It's not my pocket those three home playoff games are padding. Give me the better pick with the small chance to win the lottery, as well as the assets we gain by selling on Dumba and Greenway (and the assets we keep by not wasting them on more bottom six/pairing rentals).



I think it's 10 spots.

correct 10 spots. so yes if we miss the playoffs, even with 16th pick if we win the lottery thats a 6th overall pick. i will take those odds over our odds to win the cup this year. plus we can add picks by trading greenway and dumba. might not get 1sts but that is fine. we need cap space for players we want here longer than a year or two.

 

[AKL]

correct 10 spots. so yes if we miss the playoffs, even with 16th pick if we win the lottery thats a 6th overall pick. i will take those odds over our odds to win the cup this year. plus we can add picks by trading greenway and dumba. might not get 1sts but that is fine. we need cap space for players we want here longer than a year or two.

We don't have a 3rd round pick this year (we traded it for Deslauriers lol) so yeah, give me those two extra 2nds if that's what we can get for those guys. I'll be satisfied with a 1st and three 2nds. Could even use one or two to trade up, or make another deal with long term benefits at the draft.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

We don't have a 3rd round pick this year (we traded it for Deslauriers lol) so yeah, give me those two extra 2nds if that's what we can get for those guys. I'll be satisfied with a 1st and three 2nds. Could even use one or two to trade up, or make another deal with long term benefits at the draft.

agreed. add extra picks and cap space, then we can possibly go after a free agent worth something this offseason that we plan to have last longer than 2 years here.

 

[MuckOG]

I would rather this team win a round and get swept in the second round than move up a few spots in the draft and/or pick up an extra meaningless 3rd round pick.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I would rather this team win a round and get swept in the second round than move up a few spots in the draft and/or pick up an extra meaningless 3rd round pick.

you wouldnt want a shot at a top 10 pick in a strong draft, another pick and added cap space because you wanat to lose in the 2nd round?

 

[MuckOG]

you wouldnt want a shot at a top 10 pick in a strong draft, another pick and added cap space because you wanat to lose in the 2nd round?

Yes, i would rather lose in the second round instead of getting a shot at at top 10 pick (not even guaranteed, mind you). Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Yes, i would rather lose in the second round instead of getting a shot at at top 10 pick (not even guaranteed, mind you). Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

so what does losing in the 2nd round accomplish?

 

[MuckOG]

so what does losing in the 2nd round accomplish?

For one, core players like Ek, Boldy and Kaprizov can taste some postseason success, which they can use to build on going into the next season.

Outside of Bedard, there is no player in this draft that would likely be a key contributor for a few years at least. We shouldn't waste Kaprizov's prime years trying to tank games for the future. If thats the plan, then just trade Kaprizov now, because he wont want to stick around for that.