Proposal: Mikhail Sergachev+ for Nathan MacKinnon

[bert]

Galchenyuk and Sergachev

for Mac is really one sided.

its a pity that some dont know or watch Galchenyuk to see that

I watch them plenty both players in fact, I have both on my keeper team. His argument was actually after 15 games into the season ' galchenyuk has double the points of Mackinnon'.

Its a terrible argument for many reasons. I never said that Galchenyuk and Sergachev wasnt one sided but there isnt a chance that Galchenyuk on his own has more value than Mackinnon.

 

[CHaracter79]

Thats really your argument?

there are many arguments and factors.

being a #1 pick doesnt make you have more potential then any other player not picked #1

Galchenyuk was #3 over all in a year where he missed all but 17 games in junior cuz he tore ligaments in his knee.

he came back and still scored 27 points in 48 games in his rookie year. His growth was def stunted and coudl propbably say he wasnt himself for at least 18 months. but produced. broke his hand too and missed two months.

he never avraged 16min per game in his first 4 year. his linemates were primarily, Eller, Prust, Desharnais and plekanec. Only towards the end of last year did he see PAcioretty and Gallagher full time for the last 29 games. he has been a PPG since December of last year. he is also only 22.

mckinnon blew out of the cannon in his rookie year and dominated. was incredible.

since has regressed slight and has yet to find that first year level. i remember the first year he was in the playoffs i was on the edge of my seat.
he does average over 18:40 per game which is almost 3 minutes more then Galchenyuk.

but he does produce and is exceptional. I just think the majority of the people's concensus is not based on actually watching either or both players play enough.

 

[CHaracter79]

I watch them plenty both players in fact, I have both on my keeper team. His argument was actually after 15 games into the season ' galchenyuk has double the points of Mackinnon'.

Its a terrible argument for many reasons. I never said that Galchenyuk and Sergachev wasnt one sided but there isnt a chance that Galchenyuk on his own has more value than Mackinnon.

that was a horrible argument. agreed. and value is def on Mac side. I just dotn think its as lopsided as many people here think..

i was a big roy fan and didnt miss at Avs game ( ok maybe i missed 10 or so) in that first MAc year. he was outstanding.

GAlchenyuk has been progressing every y ear. inspite of ACL tears and broken hands.

and finally playing C last year from february on.hes been at a PPG rate since december.. thats not fifteen games.

 

[Eternalize]

like i had mentioned, of course there has to be a + a signifcant +

but Galchenyuk makes zero sense

For Montreal, probably not. For Avs, why not? Again, the OP is a Montreal fan, so i kinda see it as Montreal approaching the Avs for a deal. Doesn't mean that the Avs have to accept or that they actually want to trade MacKinnon.

Maybe people should just accept the fact that it would probably just be extremely hard for Montreal to get a deal done with Avs for MacKinnon. MacKinnon would probably be one of the last players i'd trade, and if i traded him, then i would trade him for (no offense) a better defenseman/prospect than Sergachev. Again, Sergachev is good, but he's not in the same tier as the 2015 defensemen that were picked top10.

 

[CHaracter79]

For Montreal, probably not. For Avs, why not? Again, the OP is a Montreal fan, so i kinda see it as Montreal approaching the Avs for a deal. Doesn't mean that the Avs have to accept or that they actually want to trade MacKinnon.

Maybe people should just accept the fact that it would probably just be extremely hard for Montreal to get a deal done with Avs for MacKinnon. MacKinnon would probably be one of the last players i'd trade, and if i traded him, then i would trade him for (no offense) a better defenseman/prospect than Sergachev. Again, Sergachev is good, but he's not in the same tier as the 2015 defensemen that were picked top10.

im glad you came to this conclusion so quick. very impressed. thanks for the evalaution of another mtl player.

but like I said.. the idea is to have fun with these types of threads. we know he wont be traded. of course he wont be.but i think it would have been much more fun playign along with a counter that had more potential.. you know the kind of potential Mac

Sergachev
Gallagher
1st rd 2017
2nd rd 2018


you know that kind of fun.


instead its been

MAC for chucky and serg

bye


without any real opionions other then.. my guy is better then your guy and more potential and more everything

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

if the plus isn't galchenyuk, colorado has no reason to accept and thats really just the reality of how colorado is built right now.

 

[CHaracter79]

No you overate all your players beyond belief.

Like were any of you paying attention to last year?

yes we lost our #1 RW for 39 games

our #2 Dman for 60

our #1 dman for 18 games.

and our goalie for 6 months.


did you know any of the first 3?

 

[stl76]

Took exactly 29 posts before a Montreal fan offered DD + 2nd...

 

[CHaracter79]

if the plus isn't galchenyuk, colorado has no reason to accept and thats really just the reality of how colorado is built right now.

thats more acceptable. both teams dont really fit but its fun to play.

 

[CHaracter79]

Took exactly 29 posts before a Montreal fan offered DD + 2nd...

was actually DD 2 2nds and a 4th for Colborne and Grigorenko.


not enough?

i know well add Galchenyuk

 

[Eternalize]

im glad you came to this conclusion so quick. very impressed. thanks for the evalaution of another mtl player.

but like I said.. the idea is to have fun with these types of threads. we know he wont be traded. of course he wont be.but i think it would have been much more fun playign along with a counter that had more potential.. you know the kind of potential Mac

Sergachev
Gallagher
1st rd 2017
2nd rd 2018


you know that kind of fun.


instead its been

MAC for chucky and serg

bye


without any real opionions other then.. my guy is better then your guy and more potential and more everything



but to have fun with it.

Why would i have anything against Montreal players just because i consider MacKinnon more valuable than Galchenyuk, and because i consider the 2015 draft defensemen better than Sergachev? I think most people would agree with this.

If you want a player that i at least considers a potential elite player, it doesn't really have to "make sense for both sides", because you pretty much always have to overpay for these players. You're not going to get him cheap because quality>quanity. That's why Galchenyuk would probably have to be involved because otherwise, it wouldn't be fair for the Avs. And i'm not even an Avs fan.

If i made a proposal involving Galchenyuk with my team, i'm pretty sure most Montreal fans would also come up with a "ridiculous" counter proposal. Because i'm sure they have no interest in trading him.

 

[CHaracter79]

Why would i have anything against Montreal players just because i consider MacKinnon more valuable than Galchenyuk, and because i consider the 2015 draft defensemen better than Sergachev? I think most people would agree with this.

If you want a player that i at least considers a potential elite player, it doesn't really have to "make sense for both sides", because you pretty much always have to overpay for these players. You're not going to get him cheap because quality>quanity. That's why Galchenyuk would probably have to be involved because otherwise, it wouldn't be fair for the Avs. And i'm not even an Avs fan.

If i made a proposal involving Galchenyuk with my team, i'm pretty sure most Montreal fans would also come up with a "ridiculous" counter proposal. Because i'm sure they have no interest in trading him.

i agree with much of this but i also mentioned during these back and forths that the difference between MAc and Chucky isnt a top 10 pick

but obviously these trades wont happen and its all make believe but make believe is supposed to be fun... and the way the counter proposals go usually isnt.

 

[bert]

yes we lost our #1 RW for 39 games

our #2 Dman for 60

our #1 dman for 18 games.

and our goalie for 6 months.


did you know any of the first 3?

What was the habs record at this point last year?... Almost identical. I am very familiar with the injuries, obviously they affect the teams record. However why are you basing the value of every player on the team on this hot streak and not on the last 3 quarters of last year when they were terrible.

The montreal Canadiens are propped up by Carey Price they play with more confidence infront of him (and rightfully so) doesnt mean every player on that team is a world beater.

 

[CHaracter79]

What was the habs record at this point last year?... Almost identical. I am very familiar with the injuries, obviously they affect the teams record. However why are you basing the value of every player on the team on this hot streak and not on the last 3 quarters of last year when they were terrible.

The montreal Canadiens are propped up by Carey Price they play with more confidence infront of him (and rightfully so) doesnt mean every player on that team is a world beater.

the opposite is also true.
until gallagher petry got injured, without price the habs were 11-4-1

if losing your goalie wasnt enough..

and im not evaluating anybody but galchenyuk in any of my posts.

and obviously this included last year. in which i mention, that in spite of being the worst team in the league since december 20th ,Galchenyuk managed to average a point per game ( from Dec 20th on) while never playing more then 16 minutes. averaging out at 15:48 and finally getting moved to center

 

[Bouboumaster]

Not good enough.

Would probably have to add Galchenyuk and even then. What is the point for the Avs?


Also if we decide to trade MacKinnon, it better be for a legit #1 D in the making.

Lindholm, Ekblad or atleast in a package for prospects one notch above Sergachev like Hanifin, Werenski or maybe Provorov.


He is struggling right now but the Avs really need him to produce.

Our offense already looks anemic. Trading Mac after watching ROR and Stastny leave over the last few years would be tragic.

Only second post of this thread and it already came to this?

Counter offer: Desharnais for McKinnon.



As for the OP, Montreal don't do this.
Why?
Because even if Mckinnon was worth more than the other two, it'd kill the left side.
So there's that.

And Sergachev will be a beauty in the future.

 

[JoemAvs]

Only second post of this thread and it already came to this?

Counter offer: Desharnais for McKinnon.



As for the OP, Montreal don't do this.
Why?
Because even if Mckinnon was worth more than the other two, it'd kill the left side.
So there's that.

And Sergachev will be a beauty in the future.

Done deal if you add a 2nd.

But you have to deliver the bad news to Rick Spielman. Asiata as the sole featured back with AP out probably won't work out well. But I am an Avs and Eagles fan and the Eagles have the Vikings 1st so I love this deal.

Good job....






If people want to talk trash about players they obviously have 0 clue about, they should atleast learn to spell said players name correctly.

Otherwise it just makes you look very uneducated (atleast in regards to your general hockey knowledge) to say the least....
Which is further supported by the rest of your post which indicates that you very much live inside your Habs bubble if you really think that refusing to trade Sergachev for MacKinnon is the way to go.

And I am not the only one who believes that the above deal is exactly what it would (atleast) take from the Habs if they would want to get their hands on MacKinnon because anything less than that is not worth it all for the Avs...

 

[Bouboumaster]

Done deal if you add a 2nd.

But you have to deliver the bad news to Rick Spielman. Asiata as the sole featured back with AP out probably won't work out well. But I am an Avs and Eagles fan and the Eagles have the Vikings 1st so I love this deal.

Good job....






If people want to talk trash about players they obviously have 0 clue about, they should atleast learn to spell said players name correctly.

Otherwise it just makes you look very uneducated to say the least....

And I am not the only one who believes that the above deal is exactly what it would (atleast) take from the Habs if they would want to get their hands on MacKinnon because anything less than that is not worth it all for the Avs...

I am not trash talking about Mac. He's a great player, and I'd do the OP deal in a blink of an eye if it wasn't that we are thin on the left side. I'd throw a pick too.
But to say that what it would takes to accept the deal is the OP AND Galch and maybe even more, that's pretty ********.

What I did was irony, to underscore it.

And just to make it clear: I think that Mackinnon is worth a bit more than Galchenyuk. But sure as hell not "Beaulieu + Sergachev ++" more. That's just ****ed up.

 

[JoemAvs]

I am not trash talking about Mac. He's a great player, and I'd do the OP deal in a blink of an eye if it wasn't that we are thin on the left side. I'd throw a pick too.
But to say that what it would takes to accept the deal is the OP AND Galch and maybe even more, that's pretty ********.

What I did was irony, to underscore it.

And just to make it clear: I think that Mackinnon is worth a bit more than Galchenyuk. But sure as hell not "Beaulieu + Sergachev ++" more. That's just ****ed up.

Well there is no reason for the Avs to want to swap MacKinnon for Galchenyuk.( let alone trade him for the #9 pick of last years draft who is playing junior hockey currently and has quite a bit of developing to do. That would be ridiculous).
You would have to give them a huge incentive in order to give up on Mac and his superstar potential for a player who is not all that much better than he is currently.

A late 1st or Beaulieu is not all that enticing.
The piece needed would be Sergachev.

And even then the Avs would basically trade their franchise player for lesser pieces and basically give up on our current core.

We need Mac to become an elite player if we ever want to win a cup. If we believe he can't do that and will "only" turn into a player similar to Galchenyuk (which is great but not a franchise caliber player) and do this trade because of that, we are screwed anyways and would have to hope that Sergachev turns into a bonafide #1 to salvage the situation.

And I'd rather gamble on Mac rebounding once the Avs can fix their many other issues...

 

[Bouboumaster]

Well there is no reason for the Avs to want to swap MacKinnon for Galchenyuk.( let alone trade him for the #9 pick of last years draft who is playing junior hockey currently and has quite a bit of developing to do. That would be ridiculous).
You would have to give them a huge incentive in order to give up on Mac and his superstar potential for a player who is not all that much better than he is currently.

A late 1st or Beaulieu is not all that enticing.
The piece needed would be Sergachev.

And even then the Avs would basically trade their franchise player for lesser pieces and basically give up on our current core.

We need Mac to become an elite player if we ever want to win a cup. If we believe he can't do that and will "only" turn into a player similar to Galchenyuk (which is great but not a franchise caliber player) and do this trade because of that, we are screwed anyways and would have to hope that Sergachev turns into a bonafide #1 to salvage the situation.

And I'd rather gamble on Mac rebounding once the Avs can fix their many other issues...

That is way more reasonnable.
For I, wouldn't do it, because Galchenyuk is evolving in a great player, and the potential of Sergachev is huge (and like I said, Habs are way too thin on the left side anyway to afford to trade their best prospect), but I agree that it could be something to fill the gap between Mackinnon and Galchenyuk. Maybe with a little something too. But something along those lines.

 

[beowulf]

Don't know why Montreal fans are getting all fired up about Colorado fans wanting possibly Galchenyuk and Sergachev for MacKinnon. If i had the choice between Galchenyuk and MacKinnon, i'd take MacKinnon even though Galchenyuks current form might be better. Why? Because i consider MacKinnons ceiling higher than Galchenyuks. You're not going to get a player cheap or get him in a "fair trade" just because he's "struggling". No one is getting MacKinnon unless they overpay.

And nobody is getting Glachenyuk unless they overpay.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

And nobody is getting Glachenyuk unless they overpay.

As soon as an Avs fan makes a thread asking for Galchenyuk, this will be relevant. Until then, get Habs fans to stop asking for Avs players and we'll stop telling you the likely asking price.

 

[beowulf]

Well there is no reason for the Avs to want to swap MacKinnon for Galchenyuk.( let alone trade him for the #9 pick of last years draft who is playing junior hockey currently and has quite a bit of developing to do. That would be ridiculous).
You would have to give them a huge incentive in order to give up on Mac and his superstar potential for a player who is not all that much better than he is currently.

A late 1st or Beaulieu is not all that enticing.
The piece needed would be Sergachev.

And even then the Avs would basically trade their franchise player for lesser pieces and basically give up on our current core.

We need Mac to become an elite player if we ever want to win a cup. If we believe he can't do that and will "only" turn into a player similar to Galchenyuk (which is great but not a franchise caliber player) and do this trade because of that, we are screwed anyways and would have to hope that Sergachev turns into a bonafide #1 to salvage the situation.

And I'd rather gamble on Mac rebounding once the Avs can fix their many other issues...

You are assuming so much. Who says Galchenyuk is not the one that will be the franchise player? Over their careers both players are taking different directions with Galchenyuk improving each year and MacKinnon seemingly going the other way, at least production wise.

So to assume that he will be a better player over their careers is not a sure bet at this point in time. Avs fans seem to like to mention draft position but If the drafts for both years were redone now, Galchenuyk would likely be first overall while I am not as sure if MacKinnon would be still with a guy like Monahan showing great stuff so far.

 

[Eternalize]

And nobody is getting Glachenyuk unless they overpay.

The thread was originally about MacKinnon, not Galchenyuk. Whether you have to overpay or not for Galchenyuk is irrelevant in the matter.

 

[jacks*]

Have you watched them play before this season?

You remember that MacKinnon was the #1 pick only 3 years ago and has been outproducing Galchenyuk by quite a bit at similar ages.

There is a reason why he was atleast in the conversation with Matthews and Eichel when it comes to recent prospects .

Now he won't ever be as good as McDavid but he still has a crapload of more potential than Galchenyuk and aside from this 15 game stretch already has shown and produced more at a younger age than Galchenyuk.

I know this is hfboards and the last 15 games mean everything but to be honest I would not even make that trade if you add something with Mac slumping badly right now.


Because if Mac ever come close to his ceiling (and he is only freaking 21 now), this would look really bad for the Avs...

Wow.

Chucky Playing out of his normal position with 3rd liners and 3rd line minutes.
48 GP....27PTS
65GP.....31PTS
80 GP.....46 PTS
Than midway through the season was given the opportunity to play his Center position

82GP...56 PTS
17GP...18 PTS.

Mac playing his natural position with good linemates and more ice time .

82GP...63PTS
64GP...38PTS
72GP...52PTS
15GP...8PTS.

Wit the exception of his 1st season he hasn't outproducing Galchenyuk by quite a bit as your suggesting. It looks like Chucky has caught up in terms of production and seems that he's well om his way on passing him.

I wouldn't trade Chucky straight up for Mac let alone add Sergachev .

 

[jacks*]

No you overate all your players beyond belief.

Like were any of you paying attention to last year?

It shows you weren't paying any attention to the Habs anyway.

Chucky on one of the worst teams in the league had his best season .
In the last 32 games of the season he put up 28 pts.
What was that again about paying attention.
This season he's kept up his play so far while even producing at a better rate.