Mike Richards (Warning in OP)

[Trolfoli]

they won the Stanley Cup with the 29th ranked offense... with was 30th until Carter got here.

i think you and quite a few others really underestimate the mental resolve of this team.

They won last year with the highest goals/per game and most games in the playoffs... I think you greatly underestimate the importance of scoring goals.

Also the playbook from the first cup run won't work against a team like the Hawks... So don't think that model should be relied on going forward. Specifically the Hawks excel at generating breakaways from teams having their D try and hold the blue line to trap them in their defensive zone.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

they won the Stanley Cup with the 29th ranked offense... with was 30th until Carter got here.

i think you and quite a few others really underestimate the mental resolve of this team.

Seriously Trolfoli. From now on you need to estimate this team

 

[Herby]

To be honest, the last page or so has been meta-discussion about contracts and the cap, Richards just happens to be the lens because he's one of a group of guys who are on a sort of cap-value hotseat and this thread exists. Literally SOMEONE has to go. I don't necessarily believe that's Richards, but it is reality, unless that cap goes up 15 million or something absurd. It's not mismanagement or anything imo either, it's just reality when you have an elite, experienced team. If anything, our contracts are more reasonable than most.

Brown's contract was also not eligible to be bought out if the Kings wanted to. But Brown also has other things going for him, longest tenured player, team captain, first King to touch the cup, huge in the community.

 

[Bandit]

The choice isn't between Gaborik and Pearson/Toffoli because they can all score. This may be the case if the Kings offense wasn't at 26th again, that still with the 70's killing it. The choices are as follows

Richards/Stoll... Richards singed for longer... and Lombardi passed on the opportunity to buy him out, so right/wrong Lombardi went with Richards beyond this year.

King/Brown/Williams... all playing like 3rd liners at this point... able to plug holes on the first line. They are going to need Gaborik/Kopitar to carry them... One of them is 230 lbs+ and only makes 2M.

As I said... Whether some of you choose to admit it or not, Brown, Richards and Stoll are part of Lombardi's core culture, and it's highly unlikely they are going anywhere. It may be YOUR choice, but I guarantee you it is not Lombardi's.

 

[Johnny Utah]

I still think Richards' holds some trade value at this point for teams like Edmonton, Calgary, Islanders, Leafs, etc. I think the time to deal him is NOW.

They won't give up much and only get stuck with a cap hit and might be in need of a culture change.

 

[Herby]

As I said... Whether some of you choose to admit it or not, Brown, Richards and Stoll are part of Lombardi's core culture, and it's highly unlikely they are going anywhere. It may be YOUR choice, but I guarantee you it is not Lombardi's.

Then who does go?

Williams alone probably doesn't make up the space needed. And do you really let Williams go after what he did in the post season? W

Do you let Kopitar walk?

Do you trade one of Toffoli or Pearson while their value is high?

Do you let Martinez walk?

Do you trade Voynov, assuming his situation is resolved?

You can talk about core players and all these other cliche words, but ultimately it comes down to basic dollars and cents, and right now it just doesn't add up for the Kings without salary being cut somewhere.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I think Stoll, as respected as he is, will be the odd man out. The culture will survive losing him. Particularly with how everyone now speaks of guys like Carter stepping up into a leadership role and setting a strong example with fitness and work ethic for younger players to model themselves after.

 

[Jtown]

Then who does go?

Williams alone probably doesn't make up the space needed. And do you really let Williams go after what he did in the post season? W

Do you let Kopitar walk?

Do you trade one of Toffoli or Pearson while their value is high?

Do you let Martinez walk?

Do you trade Voynov, assuming his situation is resolved?

You can talk about core players and all these other cliche words, but ultimately it comes down to basic dollars and cents, and right now it just doesn't add up for the Kings without salary being cut somewhere.

Exactly .

richards not being bought out signaled stoll's future and possibly williams.

 

[Herby]

I think Stoll, as respected as he is, will be the odd man out. The culture will survive losing him. Particularly with how everyone now speaks of guys like Carter stepping up into a leadership role and setting a strong example with fitness and work ethic.

I think it will again come down to dollars and what Stoll is willing to sign for. At this point there isn't much difference between Stoll and Richards. Stoll is an offensive blackhole, Richards is a defensive blackhole (atleast 5 on 5). Richards is more of a threat offensively and could fill in for a few games if Carter or Kopitar got injured, Stoll can provide faceoffs and an improved defensive ability.

If Stoll would sign for half of what Richards is due (which I think is possible) then it's a decision the Kings would have to make.

 

[cheap77]

Is Richards worth the money? Probably not anymore, but that's what he signed a deal for and we are stuck with it so mind as well make the best of it.

Can Richards still contribute to the team while he isn't scoring? Absolutely.

I don't think he's been that bad and I'm pretty happy that dean decided to keep him. Depth down the center is huge right now in hockey and having Kopitar, Carter, Stoll and Richards as your 4 centers is absolutely incredible.

 

[wabwat]

They won last year with the highest goals/per game and most games in the playoffs... I think you greatly underestimate the importance of scoring goals.

Also the playbook from the first cup run won't work against a team like the Hawks... So don't think that model should be relied on going forward. Specifically the Hawks excel at generating breakaways from teams having their D try and hold the blue line to trap them in their defensive zone.

Darryl Sutter has one playbook. it's DO.

nobody underestimates the importance of scoring goals. that's a silly assertion altogether.

every one of San Jose, Anaheim, and Chicago were every bit as good as the Kings were last post-season. the mental toughness is what allows you to overcome the worst possible start imaginable in the playoffs, win 3 series' in a 7th game on the road, and play the most playoff games in history of any team winning the Stanley Cup.

it's that same toughness that allowed the League's worst offense to ride a tricycle through the playoffs en route to winning their first Championship. Brown and Richards established the tone against Vancouver and they (the team) haven't looked back since.

the boards have been rife with way over thought cap concerns for the better part of 6-years, and every year the Kings are if not the best, certainly among the best cap managed teams in the league... despite anyone's fears. Hell, Dean Lombardi has even set the standard for the new second contract, which is why i doubt either Pearson or Toffoli sees some sort of monumental deal that will look like a head-scratcher for being uncharacteristic of a General Manager you guys have to got have gotten to know by now.

it's been only 10-games after having won it all 2 times in 3 years. there's a lot of hockey to go, and it'd be nice if we can give a healthy Kings lineup at least a couple of weeks before anyone starts mistaking plasma for dog plasma.

if any team deserves the benefit of the doubt, it's this team... from top to bottom.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think it will again come down to dollars and what Stoll is willing to sign for. At this point there isn't much difference between Stoll and Richards. Stoll is an offensive blackhole, Richards is a defensive blackhole (atleast 5 on 5). Richards is more of a threat offensively and could fill in for a few games if Carter or Kopitar got injured, Stoll can provide faceoffs and an improved defensive ability.

If Stoll would sign for half of what Richards is due (which I think is possible) then it's a decision the Kings would have to make.

last year that was definitely true far and away, but this year he's middle of the pack on this team in just about every statistical category. Small sample size and precious few goals outside of the 70s to choose from, but even by the metrics he's shown improvement so far. Just a point of clarity. Still agree fully it just comes down to financial management and DL is going to get tested hard this year on how he manages the cap AND his emotional and philosophical ties.

 

[kingsfan]

Everyone said that when Dean traded Visnovsky too. I'm not saying jettison him to siberia. Dean would do him a solid.

And how well did we fair in getting free agents for a while after that? Kovalchuk, Richards, etc, we were constantly second fiddle. I'm not saying that is the sole reason, but it's not like it did us any favors either.

 

[Bandit]

And how well did we fair in getting free agents for a while after that? Kovalchuk, Richards, etc, we were constantly second fiddle. I'm not saying that is the sole reason, but it's not like it did us any favors either.

How has ANY western conference team fared in getting UFA's to sign with them since... ever? Has nothing to do with anything like trading a player like Visnovsky.

 

[BigKing]

He was much better tonight in the offensive zone but I still can't believe this guy was once thought of as a shutdown center.

He's becoming a minor penalty nightmare. That garbage needs to stop.

 

[kingsfan]

How has ANY western conference team fared in getting UFA's to sign with them since... ever? Has nothing to do with anything like trading a player like Visnovsky.

Is it harder to get a guy to go west? Sure, but we've fared worse than many other Western teams.

 

[Kingspiracy]

And how well did we fair in getting free agents for a while after that? Kovalchuk, Richards, etc, we were constantly second fiddle. I'm not saying that is the sole reason, but it's not like it did us any favors either.

I doubt signing FAs is a concern for the DL, players should be lining up for a chance to challenge for the cup with the kings.

 

[kingsfan]

I doubt signing FAs is a concern for the DL, players should be lining up for a chance to challenge for the cup with the kings.

It helps now, we were talking about the time post-Visnovsky trade. DL certainly had trouble signing guys back then, I forget how many big names we were after and couldn't land.

 

[Kingspiracy]

It helps now, we were talking about the time post-Visnovsky trade. DL certainly had trouble signing guys back then, I forget how many big names we were after and couldn't land.

My bad, I thought the notion of moving gaborik was being compared to the Visnovsky move.

 

[wabwat]

My bad, I thought the notion of moving gaborik was being compared to the Visnovsky move.

moving Gaborik may be poor form, but it isn't unheard of, nor is it necessarily the end of a GM or an organization in terms of being able to land big market free agents.

the free agency paradigm has changed in Los Angeles.

 

[Bandit]

Is it harder to get a guy to go west? Sure, but we've fared worse than many other Western teams.

I don't think that's really true at all. Who is the biggest UFA to sign with any western team in the last decade? Iginla with Colorado this year comes to mind. That's one guy in a decade. Before that who? Neidermayer maybe, and only because his brother was on the team. Big name UFAs don't sign with western teams, period.

 

[wabwat]

I don't think that's really true at all. Who is the biggest UFA to sign with any western team in the last decade? Iginla with Colorado this year comes to mind. That's one guy in a decade. Before that who? Neidermayer maybe, and only because his brother was on the team. Big name UFAs don't sign with western teams, period.

Teemu Selanne was a successful role of the dice by Burke. but i'd be remiss if i didn't mention that said dice likely would never have been rolled without Selanne's past in Anaheim.

Pavol Demtira to both Los Angeles and Vancouver comes to mind as well.

 

[Trolfoli]

moving Gaborik may be poor form, but it isn't unheard of, nor is it necessarily the end of a GM or an organization in terms of being able to land big market free agents.

the free agency paradigm has changed in Los Angeles.

It's just hilarious that you guys would dump Gaborik for Brown/Williams/Stoll. One of those guys is an elite level goal scorer that can be effective on the first line without being carried. The other 3 I really don't have a problem subbing out for King at this point.

You know... Maybe the Kings should trade Carter while they're at it.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Smyth went to Colorado as well. At the time, that was a big deal. Hanhuis to Vancouver too, I guess. The list begins to taper off.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

moving Gaborik may be poor form, but it isn't unheard of, nor is it necessarily the end of a GM or an organization in terms of being able to land big market free agents.

the free agency paradigm has changed in Los Angeles.

After the player took a major discount to re-sign and forgo free agency?

I'm sorry but from a players' perspective, that would be a ********* move.