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Mike Richards IV: Started From The Bottom, Still Here *MOD WARNING Post #194*

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KINGS17 said:
No, I am concerned about where the salary cap is heading, as well as Kopitar's declining play. Kopitar isn't going to collapse next season, but his performance is not trending in a good direction. Kopitar in terms of the offense he produces is not going to be a player that is worth 8 years and $9M a season. He just isn't. It's been well documented how players' production declines after they hit their late 20's. I don't see anything in Kopitar's game this season that would cause me to think that he is an anomaly. Kopitar will still be a great two-way center for some time though.

If Kopitar came to Dean and said he would take 5 years at $8M a season, I would be inclined to do that deal this summer.
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Kopitar is also 6'3', not 5'10".
 
KINGS17 said:
Here's an idea for you: put this thread on ignore, or since nothing you post on here matters, stop posting altogether.

Thanks for critiquing my posting style, but I really don't need your help. Once again the ignore button is your friend if you can't handle it.

Who is the previous poster to tell the folks that want to discuss the future to shutup and just bask in the "after glow" of the two cups? I want the Kings to win as many cups as possible while the window is open.

If the Kings are going to do that Dean needs AEG to be on board with the program.
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Here's one for you. Drop the pie in the sky options and unrealistic expectations of what someone should do with their money. Uncle Phil is a business man, plain and simple. He'll give some leeway but at the end of the day this, like many other decisions, will be a business decision. He's not going to say here's $20 million, tell the fans I'm thinking of them.

I'm sure AEG et al. want to win just as much as you. They just don't necessarily want to spend their money as freely as you think. Cup window or not.

As for the ignore button, it works both ways, feel free to ignore me if you wish.
 
KINGS17 said:
No, I am concerned about where the salary cap is heading, as well as Kopitar's declining play. Kopitar isn't going to collapse next season, but his performance is not trending in a good direction. Kopitar in terms of the offense he produces is not going to be a player that is worth 8 years and $9M a season. He just isn't. It's been well documented how players' production declines after they hit their late 20's. I don't see anything in Kopitar's game this season that would cause me to think that he is an anomaly. Kopitar will still be a great two-way center for some time though.

If Kopitar came to Dean and said he would take 5 years at $8M a season, I would be inclined to do that deal this summer.
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So we should buy out Richards because our cup window is closing, but we shouldn't resign our best forward because he wants to long of a term?
 
Winger23 said:
Some of you need to stop *****ing and start enjoying themselves on the best run the Kings have ever had. I don't give a flying **** about who and what handicaps this team for the next x amount of years.

3 years, 2 cups. Couldn't be happier.
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ZomboDroid04032015081712_zps1xdxrgg0.jpg
 
KINGS17 said:
No, I am concerned about where the salary cap is heading, as well as Kopitar's declining play. Kopitar isn't going to collapse next season, but his performance is not trending in a good direction. Kopitar in terms of the offense he produces is not going to be a player that is worth 8 years and $9M a season. He just isn't. It's been well documented how players' production declines after they hit their late 20's. I don't see anything in Kopitar's game this season that would cause me to think that he is an anomaly. Kopitar will still be a great two-way center for some time though.

If Kopitar came to Dean and said he would take 5 years at $8M a season, I would be inclined to do that deal this summer.
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Yeah but LA is sort of a unique situation. It's kind of difficult to evaluate the play and production of our players in recent seasons. They clearly don't place much value on regular season performance, and it's a formula that works for them, but leads to a lot of uninspired play during most of the year.

We have an opportunity to continue being an SC contender in the coming seasons. Letting Kopitar walk would basically eliminate our chances. And for what reason? So that we don't take a chance that we might be overpaying him 5 years down the road? I just don't think that's the way we can look at it.
 
The kings think they have a bad contract when it comes to Mike Richards. But Jeff Carter's contract is a kind of cheap. If they had to give Carter a new contract it would cost them 8 or 9 million a year. I guess you have to take the good with the bad.
 
The elephant in the room with all of this is Brown's contract. Brown's contract is going to be equally as ugly, if not worse, very soon. What I find funny is some of the folks blasting Richards decline are completely ignoring Brown because of past performance and because "he isn't playing as bad as his stats indicate". it's like the twilight zone here. I'll buy that he hasn't completely fallen off a cliff but he is hanging on by a branch or two. Brown should realistically be making close to what his expiring contract was. The bottom line is the Kings are stuck with it but he sure is flying under the radar here. Especially with all the talk about what Kopitar makes. If everyone is ok with Brown at $5.75M, Kopitar should be getting $11M easily.
 
Buddy The Elf said:
The elephant in the room with all of this is Brown's contract. Brown's contract is going to be equally as ugly, if not worse, very soon. What I find funny is some of the folks blasting Richards decline are completely ignoring Brown because of past performance and because "he isn't playing as bad as his stats indicate". it's like the twilight zone here. I'll buy that he hasn't completely fallen off a cliff but he is hanging on by a branch or two. Brown should realistically be making close to what his expiring contract was. The bottom line is the Kings are stuck with it but he sure is flying under the radar here. Especially with all the talk about what Kopitar makes. If everyone is ok with Brown at $5.75M, Kopitar should be getting $11M easily.
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the ones I find funny are when people have posted that Brown is being paid for past services since his previous contract was lower than what he should have been getting paid. Never understood that. If Brown was underpaid he should be complaining to his agent.
 
Buddy The Elf said:
The elephant in the room with all of this is Brown's contract. Brown's contract is going to be equally as ugly, if not worse, very soon. What I find funny is some of the folks blasting Richards decline are completely ignoring Brown because of past performance and because "he isn't playing as bad as his stats indicate". it's like the twilight zone here. I'll buy that he hasn't completely fallen off a cliff but he is hanging on by a branch or two. Brown should realistically be making close to what his expiring contract was. The bottom line is the Kings are stuck with it but he sure is flying under the radar here. Especially with all the talk about what Kopitar makes. If everyone is ok with Brown at $5.75M, Kopitar should be getting $11M easily.
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I think Lombardi learned his lesson on the Richards contract and will cut ties with Brown before it's too late. Which might not be for another couple of years, who knows.
 
Eh. I'm alright with Brown getting overpaid. He is the Captain and still seems like NHL material.
 
brown is a lifer no matter how bad his play gets. He'll retire a king, i just cant see them trading the first king to ever touch the cup (with all the talk about kings tattoos and culture). but say it comes to that and brown retired before a move or when the writing is on the wall. What kind of penalty would they pay if that happened before the end of his contract?

Edit: anybody have a link or pdf of the cba? i really need to read that so i could stop asking questions haha
 
Brown still has value. He showed up in camp to GREAT shape. He has size, which helps in the playoffs and olympics, especially when he's playing the body.

Richards' was left off team Canada last year and was on the 4th line in the playoffs. Enough said.
 
Team canada is way deeper then team usa, you cant really compare them. I mean i agree that brown still has more gas in the tank then richards but i wouldnt use that example to point it out
 
kingsfan said:
Here's one for you. Drop the pie in the sky options and unrealistic expectations of what someone should do with their money. Uncle Phil is a business man, plain and simple. He'll give some leeway but at the end of the day this, like many other decisions, will be a business decision. He's not going to say here's $20 million, tell the fans I'm thinking of them.

I'm sure AEG et al. want to win just as much as you. They just don't necessarily want to spend their money as freely as you think. Cup window or not.

As for the ignore button, it works both ways, feel free to ignore me if you wish.
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Why would I need to do this. I am not offended by your style. You're the one crying about it.

These are not pie in the sky options. Buying out Richards is easily done. All it takes is money. Negotiating a good deal for the Kings with Kopitar can be done.

Some of you are people I would like to be sitting across the table with in a negotiation, that's for sure.
 
Buddy The Elf said:
The elephant in the room with all of this is Brown's contract. Brown's contract is going to be equally as ugly, if not worse, very soon. What I find funny is some of the folks blasting Richards decline are completely ignoring Brown because of past performance and because "he isn't playing as bad as his stats indicate". it's like the twilight zone here. I'll buy that he hasn't completely fallen off a cliff but he is hanging on by a branch or two. Brown should realistically be making close to what his expiring contract was. The bottom line is the Kings are stuck with it but he sure is flying under the radar here. Especially with all the talk about what Kopitar makes. If everyone is ok with Brown at $5.75M, Kopitar should be getting $11M easily.
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Well you answered some of your own questions, but you do also bring up plenty of valid concerns. The Brown contract and him not living up to it is overlooked because of the Richards one, no doubt about it. I still don't think they are in the same neighborhood though. I think Brown is overpaid, but I also feel like Brown could slot into a bottom six role pretty comfortably for the next few years and still make positive contributions, something Richards was clearly unable to do the past two seasons. Some of the Richards fanatics on this board seem to think he was sent down because his offense dried up and blame Sutter for playing him with Nolan and Clifford, the reality is had Richards been able to maintain his previous level of defensive and physical play from his prime years he could have just been an overpaid third liner like Brown or the Kings could have moved him had they retained a small amount. Richards ended up in the AHL because his entire 200x85 foot game collapsed. I think Brown is far from that.
 
johnjm22 said:
Yeah but LA is sort of a unique situation. It's kind of difficult to evaluate the play and production of our players in recent seasons. They clearly don't place much value on regular season performance, and it's a formula that works for them, but leads to a lot of uninspired play during most of the year.

We have an opportunity to continue being an SC contender in the coming seasons. Letting Kopitar walk would basically eliminate our chances. And for what reason? So that we don't take a chance that we might be overpaying him 5 years down the road? I just don't think that's the way we can look at it.
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Agree on the basic premise, but Kopitar was not a world beater in last season's playoffs. No doubt, he held his own against some tough competition, but I just don't feel that he is a player that will succeed unless he is surrounded by some talented guys up and down the lineup. In fact, most NHL players are in that category.

The only way you can give Kopitar an 8-year deal IMO, is if it substantially lowers his cap hit. The idea of an 8-year deal with a $9M cap hit for him pretty much wrecks the cap going forward, and yeah some of that is due to Brown's contract as well.
 
Brodie562 said:
brown is a lifer no matter how bad his play gets. He'll retire a king, i just cant see them trading the first king to ever touch the cup (with all the talk about kings tattoos and culture). but say it comes to that and brown retired before a move or when the writing is on the wall. What kind of penalty would they pay if that happened before the end of his contract?

Edit: anybody have a link or pdf of the cba? i really need to read that so i could stop asking questions haha
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I guess my problem with Brown's contract etc is that our last long term C earned every second of his time as a King.



Dave Taylor's Career Stats.

1977-78 Los Angeles Kings NHL 64 22 21 43 47 14 2 0 0 0 5
1978-79 Los Angeles Kings NHL 78 43 48 91 124 27 2 0 0 0 2
1979-80 Los Angeles Kings NHL 61 37 53 90 72 39 4 2 1 3 4
1980-81 Los Angeles Kings NHL 72 47 65 112 130 47 4 2 2 4 10
1981-82 Los Angeles Kings NHL 78 39 67 106 130 -4 10 4 6 10 20
1982-83 Los Angeles Kings NHL 46 21 37 58 76 4 -- -- -- -- --
1983-84 Los Angeles Kings NHL 63 20 49 69 91 -3 -- -- -- -- --
1984-85 Los Angeles Kings NHL 79 41 51 92 132 13 3 2 2 4 8
1985-86 Los Angeles Kings NHL 76 33 38 71 110 -16 -- -- -- -- --
1986-87 Los Angeles Kings NHL 67 18 44 62 84 0 5 2 3 5 6
1987-88 Los Angeles Kings NHL 68 26 41 67 129 -4 5 3 3 6 6
1988-89 Los Angeles Kings NHL 70 26 37 63 80 10 11 1 5 6 19
1989-90 Los Angeles Kings NHL 58 15 26 41 96 17 6 4 4 8 6
1990-91 Los Angeles Kings NHL 73 23 30 53 148 27 12 2 1 3 12
1991-92 Los Angeles Kings NHL 77 10 19 29 63 10 6 1 1 2 20
1992-93 Los Angeles Kings NHL 48 6 9 15 49 1 22 3 5 8 31
1993-94 Los Angeles Kings NHL 33 4 3 7

Right to the very end that guy was the man. I had to temper my expectations of Brown when he became C and of course largely different eras but there you go. Also not leaving Matty out of the mix but as a D it is a different thing. Of course Taylor wasn't C his entire time with the team and Brown while a different type of leader is also very good in his own way but I was spoiled by Taylor's willingness to settle things on the ice as well as off of it.
 
Brown is the captain. He plays physical. He is in good shape. He has given his whole career to LA. He still holds value. His is a step down from Shane Doan.

When you are 5'-10", not in great shape, stopped shooting, stopped hitting and don't even have a letter...what are you good for at 5.75 million?

Brown is a -9 this year. That's not good, but he hasn't been a minus player since 2009-2010. That means he went 5 straights season as a + player.

Richards' has been a minus players every year as a King except this first year.
 
417th said:
I guess my problem with Brown's contract etc is that our last long term C earned every second of his time as a King.



Dave Taylor's Career Stats.

1977-78 Los Angeles Kings NHL 64 22 21 43 47 14 2 0 0 0 5
1978-79 Los Angeles Kings NHL 78 43 48 91 124 27 2 0 0 0 2
1979-80 Los Angeles Kings NHL 61 37 53 90 72 39 4 2 1 3 4
1980-81 Los Angeles Kings NHL 72 47 65 112 130 47 4 2 2 4 10
1981-82 Los Angeles Kings NHL 78 39 67 106 130 -4 10 4 6 10 20
1982-83 Los Angeles Kings NHL 46 21 37 58 76 4 -- -- -- -- --
1983-84 Los Angeles Kings NHL 63 20 49 69 91 -3 -- -- -- -- --
1984-85 Los Angeles Kings NHL 79 41 51 92 132 13 3 2 2 4 8
1985-86 Los Angeles Kings NHL 76 33 38 71 110 -16 -- -- -- -- --
1986-87 Los Angeles Kings NHL 67 18 44 62 84 0 5 2 3 5 6
1987-88 Los Angeles Kings NHL 68 26 41 67 129 -4 5 3 3 6 6
1988-89 Los Angeles Kings NHL 70 26 37 63 80 10 11 1 5 6 19
1989-90 Los Angeles Kings NHL 58 15 26 41 96 17 6 4 4 8 6
1990-91 Los Angeles Kings NHL 73 23 30 53 148 27 12 2 1 3 12
1991-92 Los Angeles Kings NHL 77 10 19 29 63 10 6 1 1 2 20
1992-93 Los Angeles Kings NHL 48 6 9 15 49 1 22 3 5 8 31
1993-94 Los Angeles Kings NHL 33 4 3 7

Right to the very end that guy was the man. I had to temper my expectations of Brown when he became C and of course largely different eras but there you go. Also not leaving Matty out of the mix but as a D it is a different thing. Of course Taylor wasn't C his entire time with the team and Brown while a different type of leader is also very good in his own way but I was spoiled by Taylor's willingness to settle things on the ice as well as off of it.
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According to this biography, Dave Taylor was captain of the Kings for 4 seasons. Dustin Brown will easily eclipse that mark and likely will leave the Kings as their longest serving captain.

http://kings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=41290
 
417th said:
His play wasn't so terrible that you couldn't have floated him around 9mins a game while trying to move him.
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Yes it was.

Re-watch the Chicago series last year. Just zero defensive awareness or effort out there, it was like watching John Scott or something.

The Kings were fighting for their playoff lives this season, they couldn't afford to keep getting burned in the defensive zone while they worked on a trade or showcased someone.
 
Herby said:
Yes it was.

Re-watch the Chicago series last year. Just zero defensive awareness or effort out there, it was like watching John Scott or something.

The Kings were fighting for their playoff lives this season, they couldn't afford to keep getting burned in the defensive zone while they worked on a trade or showcased someone.
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Exactly. Richards' became pretty much a Colin Fraser with a huge contract.
 
Johnny Utah said:
Brown is the captain. He plays physical. He is in good shape. He has given his whole career to LA. He still holds value. His is a step down from Shane Doan.

When you are 5'-10", not in great shape, stopped shooting, stopped hitting and don't even have a letter...what are you good for at 5.75 million?

Brown is a -9 this year. That's not good, but he hasn't been a minus player since 2009-2010. That means he went 5 straights season as a + player.

Richards' has been a minus players every year as a King except this first year.
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RIchards doesn't wear a letter either to be fair.
 
417th said:
RIchards doesn't wear a letter either to be fair.
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I think you mean Carter. And you don't really need a letter when you are the best player on the ice night in night out for almost 3 seasons now.

I listen to Sportsnet radio at work, and once in awhile someone mentions Carter and how solid he is and how much more mature he is now.
 
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