Mike Richards IV: Started From The Bottom, Still Here *MOD WARNING Post #194*

[damacles1156]

So AEG is okay with paying 20 million to play in the AHL?

He won't be staying there forever, Richards will most likely play in the playoffs(provided the Kings make it). The Kings can still retain up to 50%, and a team at the draft will take a look at that.

Once teams figure out their cap floors, how much they need, what UFA they want to target ETC; At 50% retained, teams will look at Richards. Especially if he plays well or at least average in the playoffs.

Also it's not just 20 million, it's 20 mill + the dead cap space for 10 years with year three/four/Five at large cap hits.

 

[KINGS17]

Still don't think Lombardi buy's out Richards. He may have had the ok from AEG, when it wiped the cap hit slate clean.

But that may have changed.

Think about this, it's 20 million dollars to say bye to Richards. The Yotes TOTAL operating losses for the year is 30 million (or about that).

Think about that for a minute.

The total remaining on Richards' contract is $22M after this season.

The buy out cost is 2/3 of what remains on the contract spread over ten years. Total cost of buy out is $14.67M, with an annual pay out of $1.467M. AEG does not have to come up with the entire $14.67M all at once, which makes it even more palatable. Cap hits are as follows:

2015-2016 $1.22M
2016-2017 $1.72M
2017-2018 $2.72M
2018-2019 $4.22M
2019-2020 $4.22M

Thereafter until the 2024-2025 season the cap hit is $1.47M. I don't see Dean doing a trade where he retains more than $2M in salary. Also, it's not a good idea to take a bad contract in return unless it is a player that might be useful to the Kings, or a player with a less onerous buy out.

A Richards buy out is doable IMO for a chance to bring in a better #3 center and compete for Stanley Cups the next 3 seasons.

 

[damacles1156]

The total remaining on Richards' contract is $22M after this season.

The buy out cost is 2/3 of what remains on the contract spread over ten years. Total cost of buy out is $14.67M, with an annual pay out of $1.467M.

It's doable IMO for a chance to bring in a better #3 center and compete for Stanley Cups the next 3 seasons.

That is about how long the window will probably last, so year three through five of those cap hits don't really matter.

Kopitar/Quick/Carter, will all be well past their prime production years(most likely not a Cup roster).
Three years from now Doughty is 28.

Still, that's a ton of money. Lombardi screwed the pooch, now it will cost the Kings. Brown will as well(terrible contract), later on.

Sadly, Carter seems to be the only guy at 30 years of age, in prime shape. He is fit, really fit.

 

[KINGS17]

That is about how long the window will probably last, so year three through five of those cap hits don't really matter.

Kopitar/Quick/Carter, will all be well past their prime production years(most likely not a Cup roster).
Three years from now Doughty is 28.

Still, that's a ton of money. Lombardi screwed the pooch, now it will cost the Kings. Brown will as well(terrible contract), later on.

Sadly, Carter seems to be the only guy at 30 years of age, in prime shape. He is fit, really fit.

Yeah, I think with Pearson and Toffoli getting raises it becomes imperative that the Kings replace Williams with a player that is either paid a great deal less or on his ELC. I think Weal may be that guy.

IF, and man it's a big if, Voynov is reinstated, Dean will have an NHL defenseman to trade, assuming he re-signs Sekera. I would hope that trade would net the Kings a quality #3 center with a reasonable cap hit.

 

[CowMix]

Honestly the buy out hit doesn't look too bad, we would probably have to retool in 2018 anyway.

I don't think we will be able to resign Sekera, he's going to want more than Voynov money.

 

[KINGS17]

Honestly the buy out hit doesn't look too bad, we would probably have to retool in 2018 anyway.

I don't think we will be able to resign Sekera, he's going to want more than Voynov money.

I think the Kings can re-sign Sekera if they let Williams and Stoll walk, and trade one of Voynov, Muzzin, or Martinez.

 

[CowMix]

I think the Kings can re-sign Sekera if they let Williams and Stoll walk, and trade one of Voynov, Muzzin, or Martinez.

I guess we will see how Sekera does in the playoffs and how the Voynov trial plays out. He's been solid but is he worth replacing one of Voynov, Muzzin, or Martinez with a million or two higher cap hit?

 

[guderian]

But he could be worth replacing Regehr if Richards and his cap hit can be moved.

Muzzin-Doughty
Sekera-Voynov
McNabb-Martinez


That sounds sexy

 

[Trolfoli]

I think Kings17 needs to understand that the Kings have a hard enough time making the playoffs that taking any cap penalty (buyout/retained salary) isn't really going to help the team accomplish that goal.

None of this really matters as the Kings current level of play is not up to the playoff level. About the only way I see the team making the second round is getting a match up with Vancouver in the first. Wait... Brown/Stoll/Williams are finally going to show up this year!!!!

About enlightening people as to where to fit Richards into the line up for max benefit of the team... wasn't the reported reason the Richards trade fell through was that he'd been skating 10 mins a night and his conditioning that he worked on this Summer was shot because of it.... Gee it would have been better for the Kings and Richards to put him in a better situation... at which point he could have been moved... The situation the Kings are in right now is much better then that. I mean the cap space to bring in a winger at the deadline that's better then Lewis for the first line would have been huge. (I don't hate Lewis, it isn't his fault Sutter plays him on the first line)

In the event the Kings miss the playoffs I want to see the, "WIN NOW!" peoples heads explode.

 

[Trolfoli]

But he could be worth replacing Regehr if Richards and his cap hit can be moved.

Muzzin-Doughty
Sekera-Voynov
McNabb-Martinez


That sounds sexy

There's no Greene... and I'm still not 100% sure Lombardi is going to let Regehr go... don't know how the cap would work to keep Regehr... but that's why Lombardi has a capologist I guess.

 

[member 88115]

But he could be worth replacing Regehr if Richards and his cap hit can be moved.

Muzzin-Doughty
Sekera-Voynov
McNabb-Martinez


That sounds sexy

I doubt Sutter would play Sekeras and Voynov together. He likes a bigger physical player with a puck mover. Sutter knows that having two puck movers as a pair normally have trouble defending a strong physical line and that what casued the pairing of Doughty/Voynov pairing to be broken up.

I think McNabb with either Voynov or Sekeras is how he sees.

 

[kingsfan]

Quit trying to put words in my mouth. I said Kopitar isn't worth $9M a year for 8 seasons, and I don't think he will get that. I think he will be fair with Dean.

Your counter to that statement has always been that Dean will have to give Kopitar whatever he demands. Simply not true.

Obviously if Richards can be moved in a trade, it is better for the Kings. Go back and READ what I wrote. I said if Richards can't earn a spot in the Kings' organization on the NHL roster, or be traded, that the only option remaining is a buy out. Dean sure as hell isn't going to have a cap hit of over $4M on the books for an AHL player.

Also, I don't see how taking a bad contract in return is a good option when the Kings are in the "win now" mode. Better to either retain some of the cap hit or buy out the contract and take some lumps 4 years into the buy out when the salary cap has hopefully gone up some more. The time period for the buy out occurs only during the summer, so yes, Dean has to wait until the summer.

I didn't put words in your mouth. You've said countless times if Kopitar wants more than five years you'd strongly consider walking away and letting go to UFA.

On the flip side, I never once said DL has to give Kopitar 'whatever he wants,' I've said that if Kopitar wants more than five years bad enough and the Kings decline, he will leave and have a large market for his services and the Kings will not be able to replace him. Thus the reality is the Kings will likely have to come more towards Kopitar's way than the five year term you are pushing for or he'll walk. I did not say had Kopitar a blank cheque, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Taking a bad contract on can help LA, depending on the contract. We know that they are saddled with a cap hit in a buy out, but you are also saddled with the contract of whomever comes up to replace Richards as well, if that is Weal or another veteran. So cap hit from the buy out + cap hit of whomever is recalled/acquired is likely to be at a minimum $2.5 million. Why not take back a $3 million deal that expires in say three years that can actually play on your team and you don't have to worry about the buy out cap hit, which hangs around for a decade?

 

[YP44]

The total remaining on Richards' contract is $22M after this season.

The buy out cost is 2/3 of what remains on the contract spread over ten years. Total cost of buy out is $14.67M, with an annual pay out of $1.467M. AEG does not have to come up with the entire $14.67M all at once, which makes it even more palatable. Cap hits are as follows:

2015-2016 $1.22M
2016-2017 $1.72M
2017-2018 $2.72M
2018-2019 $4.22M
2019-2020 $4.22M

Thereafter until the 2024-2025 season the cap hit is $1.47M. I don't see Dean doing a trade where he retains more than $2M in salary. Also, it's not a good idea to take a bad contract in return unless it is a player that might be useful to the Kings, or a player with a less onerous buy out.

A Richards buy out is doable IMO for a chance to bring in a better #3 center and compete for Stanley Cups the next 3 seasons.

my preference would be to trade while retaining $2M.
IMO it would make sense taking back a bad contract if there is only one year left on it. someone like PA Parenteau

 

[KINGS17]

I didn't put words in your mouth. You've said countless times if Kopitar wants more than five years you'd strongly consider walking away and letting go to UFA.

On the flip side, I never once said DL has to give Kopitar 'whatever he wants,' I've said that if Kopitar wants more than five years bad enough and the Kings decline, he will leave and have a large market for his services and the Kings will not be able to replace him. Thus the reality is the Kings will likely have to come more towards Kopitar's way than the five year term you are pushing for or he'll walk. I did not say had Kopitar a blank cheque, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Taking a bad contract on can help LA, depending on the contract. We know that they are saddled with a cap hit in a buy out, but you are also saddled with the contract of whomever comes up to replace Richards as well, if that is Weal or another veteran. So cap hit from the buy out + cap hit of whomever is recalled/acquired is likely to be at a minimum $2.5 million. Why not take back a $3 million deal that expires in say three years that can actually play on your team and you don't have to worry about the buy out cap hit, which hangs around for a decade?

No, what I said is that if the cap hit is going to be high, the contract should be limited to 5 years, and that given how production for 30+ year old forwards drops off the 5 years would be ideal. Again, you fail to READ.

How exactly are the Kings "saddled" with a another contract if that player happens to be a #3 center that actually produces? There aren't any "bad" contracts that are only owed $3M for each season over the next three years. Which team is going to trade a 3-year, $9M contract for Richards' contract? Answer: no one.

The buy out sucks, but if Richards can't be traded or earn a spot on the NHL roster, it's the only recourse.

 

[KINGS17]

my preference would be to trade while retaining $2M.
IMO it would make sense taking back a bad contract if there is only one year left on it. someone like PA Parenteau

Me too, but it depends on what the Kings would have to add to the deal, and it would likely be significant prospects/picks.

 

[kingsfan]

my preference would be to trade while retaining $2M.
IMO it would make sense taking back a bad contract if there is only one year left on it. someone like PA Parenteau

I know you just meant a bad contract in general, not specific to Montreal, but using Parenteau as an example, it shows why it doesn't make sense for other teams to do that.

If we retained $2 million of Richards deal, it'd still leave a cap hit of $3.75 million for the other team. Parenteau as you correctly stated has one more year left, at a cap hit of $4 million.

So for the first year, the cap hit to Montreal basically is even (they actually save $250,000) but they give up the guy that is actually playing in the NHL for Richards, who isn't. So they take on some risk in the first season alone even with the cap hits basically equal.

After that, Parenteau is a UFA and is off of the Kings books. meanwhile Richards still has four years remaining, and will cost the Canadiens $3.75 million each year against their cap. That's a tough pill to swallow. Assuming the cap is $70 million next year (the forecast last night on TSN I think said $71-$73 million if the NHL and the NHLPA use the inflator), that means over five per cent of your cap space is committed to a guy who right now is in the minors after everyone elected to not claim him for free. That's a big risk to take and why LA is either going to have to take on a much worse contract than Parenteau, retain more of Richards cap hit, add significant assets with Richards, or a combination of all three.

 

[kingsfan]

No, what I said is that if the cap hit is going to be high, the contract should be limited to 5 years, and that given how production for 30+ year old forwards drops off the 5 years would be ideal. Again, you fail to READ.

How exactly are the Kings "saddled" with a another contract if that player happens to be a #3 center that actually produces? There aren't any "bad" contracts that are only owed $3M for each season over the next three years. Which team is going to trade a 3-year, $9M contract for Richards' contract? Answer: no one.

The buy out sucks, but if Richards can't be traded or earn a spot on the NHL roster, it's the only recourse.

LMAO! Whatever, there's no difference between what I said and what you replied with. Different view if anything, though frankly I think the reading fail is on your side. But again, whatever, been down this road with you plenty of times to know you'll never admit anything.

As for the 'saddled' part, again, reading fail. I'm simply stating you can't look at Richards cap hit in a buy out in a vaccuum. You have to consider the contract of whomever replaces him. Like how this year LA didn't actually see a $925,000 portion of cap relief when the demoted Richards because Shore came up to replace him and his salary all but negated the savings from sending Richards down. The same will happen next year, whether it be Shore or Weal coming in or DL ends up taking on a contract. If he takes on a contract it's not going to be a small one, so I used $3 million as an example, simply because that'd be on the very low end of any contract we can expect back.

As for a bad deal in the $3 million range, how about Victor Stalberg? Boyd Gordon? Colin Greening? Look around yourself, there's plenty of guys at $3 million that teams would be willing to dump with years left on their deals.

And again, I never said trade Richards straight up for a guy making $3 million per for 3 years. For someone so bent about perceived 'failures to read' you sure are pretty adapt at it yourself.

 

[YP44]

I know you just meant a bad contract in general, not specific to Montreal, but using Parenteau as an example, it shows why it doesn't make sense for other teams to do that.

If we retained $2 million of Richards deal, it'd still leave a cap hit of $3.75 million for the other team. Parenteau as you correctly stated has one more year left, at a cap hit of $4 million.

So for the first year, the cap hit to Montreal basically is even (they actually save $250,000) but they give up the guy that is actually playing in the NHL for Richards, who isn't. So they take on some risk in the first season alone even with the cap hits basically equal.

After that, Parenteau is a UFA and is off of the Kings books. meanwhile Richards still has four years remaining, and will cost the Canadiens $3.75 million each year against their cap. That's a tough pill to swallow. Assuming the cap is $70 million next year (the forecast last night on TSN I think said $71-$73 million if the NHL and the NHLPA use the inflator), that means over five per cent of your cap space is committed to a guy who right now is in the minors after everyone elected to not claim him for free. That's a big risk to take and why LA is either going to have to take on a much worse contract than Parenteau, retain more of Richards cap hit, add significant assets with Richards, or a combination of all three.

I know it's not likely but it's what I would like to see. well actually what I would like to see is Richards regain some sort of form that would make him a useful centre in the NHL.
Montreal doesn't fit the bill but if a budgte team see ricahrds as a player who can play #3C I think he would hold a lot of value ot them as his cap hit > salary.
I just want it to play out already so we know for sure

 

[HeadInjury]

I know you just meant a bad contract in general, not specific to Montreal, but using Parenteau as an example, it shows why it doesn't make sense for other teams to do that.

If we retained $2 million of Richards deal, it'd still leave a cap hit of $3.75 million for the other team. Parenteau as you correctly stated has one more year left, at a cap hit of $4 million.

So for the first year, the cap hit to Montreal basically is even (they actually save $250,000) but they give up the guy that is actually playing in the NHL for Richards, who isn't. So they take on some risk in the first season alone even with the cap hits basically equal.

After that, Parenteau is a UFA and is off of the Kings books. meanwhile Richards still has four years remaining, and will cost the Canadiens $3.75 million each year against their cap. That's a tough pill to swallow. Assuming the cap is $70 million next year (the forecast last night on TSN I think said $71-$73 million if the NHL and the NHLPA use the inflator), that means over five per cent of your cap space is committed to a guy who right now is in the minors after everyone elected to not claim him for free. That's a big risk to take and why LA is either going to have to take on a much worse contract than Parenteau, retain more of Richards cap hit, add significant assets with Richards, or a combination of all three.

I think you need to look for a trade partner that isn't a cap team. Richards' cap hit may be $5.75 million, but he is only paid an average of $4.2 million over the rest of his contract. If we retained $2 million, he's only cost the new team $2.2 million per year. Granted the cap hit would be $3.75 million, but if the new team doesn't spend up to the cap anyway, then it doesn't really matter.

Giving up $2 million in cap space for 5 years might be better than giving up nearly $1.5 million for 10 years, but I think DL would try to keep the retention lower by offering picks or prospects. Example: $1 million retained + Weal + 2nd round pick.

Not suggesting that is the proper value. That's way above my pay grade.

 

[KINGS17]

LMAO! Whatever, there's no difference between what I said and what you replied with. Different view if anything, though frankly I think the reading fail is on your side. But again, whatever, been down this road with you plenty of times to know you'll never admit anything.

As for the 'saddled' part, again, reading fail. I'm simply stating you can't look at Richards cap hit in a buy out in a vaccuum. You have to consider the contract of whomever replaces him. Like how this year LA didn't actually see a $925,000 portion of cap relief when the demoted Richards because Shore came up to replace him and his salary all but negated the savings from sending Richards down. The same will happen next year, whether it be Shore or Weal coming in or DL ends up taking on a contract. If he takes on a contract it's not going to be a small one, so I used $3 million as an example, simply because that'd be on the very low end of any contract we can expect back.

As for a bad deal in the $3 million range, how about Victor Stalberg? Boyd Gordon? Colin Greening? Look around yourself, there's plenty of guys at $3 million that teams would be willing to dump with years left on their deals.

And again, I never said trade Richards straight up for a guy making $3 million per for 3 years. For someone so bent about perceived 'failures to read' you sure are pretty adapt at it yourself.

This is exactly what you do with Richards' contract. It's a sunk cost, with a relatively low cap hit the first 3 years and then again starting in the 6th year.

Why would the team that is trading Stalberg, etc. take Mike Richards? There is no benefit for them, unless Dean includes assets that he likely doesn't want to give up.

The reading failure is on your side, and yes, we have been down this road before. Traveling it with you is a waste of my time.

 

[kingsfan]

This is exactly what you do with Richards' contract. It's a sunk cost, with a relatively low cap hit the first 3 years and then again starting in the 6th year.

Why would the team that is trading Stalberg, etc. take Mike Richards? There is no benefit for them, unless Dean includes assets that he likely doesn't want to give up.

The reading failure is on your side, and yes, we have been down this road before. Traveling it with you is a waste of my time.

Again, not what you do. To just look at his buy out negates who is replacing him, which is also a cost. But whatever, you'll never grasp that it seems.

And yes, a team is going to mostly be after the 'other' stuff DL would have to send with Richards, however for a team that might be tight to the cap to make a deal work otherwise, they could send a contract back. Not everyone can simply afford Richards, even at 50% retained. If DL can get the best deal with a team that needs him to eat a contract as well, he'll do it.

Btw, if it's a waste of your time feel free to stop responding then. The ignore button is your friend

 

[Johnny Utah]

In the summer, Stoll, Williams walk and Richards is traded for bought out.

RR is 50/50, maybe he takes a cheap 1 year deal. But it all depends on Voynov.

Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Greene and McNabb are the def top 5 for next year...so now who is the #6? Voynov, Sekera or RR?

Kings would probably be smart to sign a #7 guy who doesn't mind sitting rather than letting a kid like Forbort sit all year. I think McNabb is proving he is a solid player.

 

[guderian]

I doubt Sutter would play Sekeras and Voynov together. He likes a bigger physical player with a puck mover. Sutter knows that having two puck movers as a pair normally have trouble defending a strong physical line and that was casued the pairing of Doughty/Voynov pairing to be broken up.

I think McNabb with either Voynov or Sekeras is how he sees.

I know, I know but if there is a chance Slava comes back and Sekera resigns are Kings better off trading Martinez and keeping Regehr?

Muzzin-Doughty
Regehr-Voynov
Sekera-McNabb/Green

Sekera is smart, has good positioning and Slava can win physical battles, and both can move puck quickly out of zone. There is a chance it won't work, but if it clicks could be great great pairing.

 

[HeadInjury]

In the summer, Stoll, Williams walk and Richards is traded for bought out.

RR is 50/50, maybe he takes a cheap 1 year deal. But it all depends on Voynov.

Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Greene and McNabb are the def top 5 for next year...so now who is the #6? Voynov, Sekera or RR?

Kings would probably be smart to sign a #7 guy who doesn't mind sitting rather than letting a kid like Forbort sit all year. I think McNabb is proving he is a solid player.

I don't know where to find the answer, but some have suggested that Forbort won't be waiver exempt next year.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

In the summer, Stoll, Williams walk and Richards is traded for bought out.

RR is 50/50, maybe he takes a cheap 1 year deal. But it all depends on Voynov.

Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez, Greene and McNabb are the def top 5 for next year...so now who is the #6? Voynov, Sekera or RR?

Kings would probably be smart to sign a #7 guy who doesn't mind sitting rather than letting a kid like Forbort sit all year. I think McNabb is proving he is a solid player.

I think, regarding the D, it's just too many moving parts to say right now, mostly hinging on Voynov, but if Sekera were to re-sign, SOMEONE liek Muzzin, Martinez, Voynov, Greene would be on the way out. I'd love to see Regehr take a discount and be a #7, but unlikely. Sorta OT, in the postgame the other night Patty O'Neal was trying to get OD to talk about Regehr retiring as if it were some behind-the-scenes secret but OD just gave him this "you're ****ing crazy" look. So maybe that's an option too. I do think, though, regardless of what happens with Richards, we see 2-3 youth on the opening night roster for money's sake alone. I'm thinking Forbort is one of them somehow.