Value of: Mike Matheson

[TBF1972]

Promise?

will you promise the same if he returns less than a 1st or doesn't get traded?

 

[Gurglesons]

Matheson absolutely returns a first. He's not going to have the same stats when he's no longer a #1 on a bad team, but he's been great for the Habs. Any contender would love to have him on the 2nd pair.

I actually wonder about Vegas for this one if Hanifin is outta their price range.

Why would Vegas add a LHD?

 

[McJedi]

Petry is a big miss from us

Anderson, until last year, would have gone for a lot. Now we know better, but that's because we live in the future

Tatar, we knew during the 2021 playoffs that he wasn't going to get shit after His no show. Nobody asked anything for him after that

Do you know Who maybe could use Matheson?
You guys.
You are one injury away to go from "no elite defensemen but still Solid overall" d-corps to a catastrophe

What if Ekholm or Nurse goes down with an injury?
Kulak is a solid defenseman, and I'm a fan of his, but would you go in the playoffs with Kulak as your LHD number 2? This is a laughable Idea.

Teams will try to fetch Hanifin and Tanev, but if you can't get them, Matheson is a solid 3rd option, and yes, he blows Kulak out of the water for sure

Matheson, ideally, is a second pair guy Who can Play on first parking, while Kulak is a solid 3rd pairing that can Play on the second

Same logic applies to a bunch of Team you named btw

The Avs? LOL. They have several better defenders than Matheson. Several excellent puck movers and PP QB options. They are the least likely team in the NHL to want Matheson.

Oilers don't work because of the term on Matheson's deal.

I'd say this about Matheson. If his contract was expiring and the Habs retained 50%, you'd easily get a 1st round pick. So wait it out.

Today with no retention and 2+ years of term left... No chance you'd touch a 1st in return unless you took back an ugly contract too.

 

[TT1]

The Avs? LOL. They have several better defenders than Matheson. Several excellent puck movers and PP QB options. They are the least likely team in the NHL to want Matheson.

Oilers don't work because of the term on Matheson's deal.

I'd say this about Matheson. If his contract was expiring and the Habs retained 50%, you'd easily get a 1st round pick. So wait it out.

Today with no retention and 2+ years of term left... No chance you'd touch a 1st in return unless you took back an ugly contract too.

?????? what

so you're saying teams wouldn't want a 22-23 min (minimum) dman at 4.9M for 2+ years? and possibly retained for an even lower cap hit? this is a negative and not a positive?

pls find me a dman still in his prime (post RFA) that can put up 50-60 points a season while playing 23-25 minutes a night at 3-4M

 

[Gurglesons]

?????? what

so you're saying teams wouldn't want a 22-23 min (minimum) dman at 4.9M for 2+ years? and possibly retained for an even lower cap hit? this is a negative and not a positive?

Because Matheson is terrible defensively and is a skill set contenders don’t typically add which is why his contract was dumped twice already.

 

[McJedi]

?????? what

so you're saying teams wouldn't want a 22-23 min (minimum) dman at 4.9M for 2+ years? and possibly retained for an even lower cap hit? this is a negative and not a positive?

He plays a lousy 22-23 minutes a game. His defensive analytics suck and scream he's in a role he's not capable of.

So no... I don't think teams see him as a guy they'd want to play 22 minutes a game. He plays that much for the Habs because the Habs defense is young and mostly terrible. Will they get better, probably, but today... they aren't very good.

If the Habs retained on Matheson's contract, I'd be very surprised. That's 2.3+ years of retention today. I doubt your GM is offering to retain. I doubt your GM is even talking to anyone on Matheson. He's not at all the kind of defender teams try to acquire for a playoff run.

He's the kind of guy you'd acquire if you had LTIR slot open and some future cap space to accommodate his contract as well as a contract with term to send the other way.

Very very small group of buyers fit that narrative.

 

[TT1]

Because Matheson is terrible defensively and is a skill set contenders don’t typically add which is why his contract was dumped twice already.

that's a myth, Matheson isn't a terrible defensively, if he was terrible defensively he wouldn't be playing 25 minutes a night with 45% ozone/55% dzone starts. obviously i won't say he's good as well but he's definitely average to above average, his playstyle = he always has the puck and tries to make things happen, yes that'll lead to more turnovers than usual but it also leads to more opportunities

again this always comes from a bunch of people who haven't seen him play and just look at a bunch of advanced stats, no shit he won't have great advanced stats when he's playing on a bottom end team and he's the most played player on the team vs the toughest competition

Doughty also had bad advanced stats seasons as well as great ones, when L.A had great puck possession teams he had great adv stats, when they didn't he had bad numbers

 

[McJedi]

Because Matheson is terrible defensively and is a skill set contenders don’t typically add which is why his contract was dumped twice already.

Exactly. Habs fans simply won't allow this obvious truth to enter their brains.

Their brains have a singular focus. Give us a 1st round pick.

 

[McJedi]

that's a myth, Matheson isn't a terrible defensively, if he was terrible defensively he wouldn't be playing 25 minutes a night

again this is just a bunch of people who haven't seen him play and just look at a bunch of advanced stats

Matheson plays that much because most the Habs defenders suck defensively.

Guhle: sucks defensively

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

Jayden Struble: sucks defensively

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

David Savard: really sucks defensively

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

Justin Barron: not good defensively

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

And most importantly. Mike Matheson: sucks defensively.
Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

I know Habs fans hate analytics because Maths, but most GMs do consider them.

 

[TT1]

Matheson plays that much because most the Habs defenders suck defensively.

Guhle: sucks defensively

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

Jayden Struble: sucks defensively

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

David Savard: really sucks defensively

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

Justin Barron: not good defensively

Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

And most importantly. Mike Matheson: sucks defensively.
Skater | HockeyStatCards.com

I know Habs fans hate analytics because Maths, but most GMs do consider them.

buddy i knew about advanced stats before you even watched hockey, that's baby league stuff

once you know what you're talking about you'll learn to combine advanced stats with context (for context you actually need to watch the game/the players tho)

fyi Matheson's career ozone starts are about 45%, that's a bit of context for you, in no world would a "terrible defensive player" average 45% ozone starts on various different teams (and we're not talking about 1-2 season, that's 8 seasons)

that would essentially mean that various NHL coaches understand less about the game than HFers, that's what being delusional actually looks like

 

[Gurglesons]

Listen. I defended Matheson a ton prior, during and after his trade to PIT. He is a solid player.

Matheson overall is a player that can be a good #4/5 for a contending team in sheltered minutes. He is one of the best athletes in the league.

His metrics overall paint a much more positive image than his reputation. But he is bar none one of the stupidest players I have ever seen playing hockey.

He is not a skill set contenders typically are looking to add and if he was on a short term deal I think you’d see a very similar career to Ghost Bear.

 

[TT1]

Listen. I defended Matheson a ton prior, during and after his trade to PIT. He is a solid player.

Matheson overall is a player that can be a good #4/5 for a contending team in sheltered minutes. He is one of the best athletes in the league.

His metrics overall paint a much more positive image than his reputation. But he is bar none one of the stupidest players I have ever seen playing hockey.

He is not a skill set contenders typically are looking to add and if he was on a short term deal I think you’d see a very similar career to Ghost Bear.

edit: forget it, not worth arguing about

 

[Bouboumaster]

The Avs? LOL. They have several better defenders than Matheson. Several excellent puck movers and PP QB options. They are the least likely team in the NHL to want Matheson.

Oilers don't work because of the term on Matheson's deal.

I'd say this about Matheson. If his contract was expiring and the Habs retained 50%, you'd easily get a 1st round pick. So wait it out.

Today with no retention and 2+ years of term left... No chance you'd touch a 1st in return unless you took back an ugly contract too.

You're 100% wrong

But either way it doesn't matter: Hughes ain't trading him this year (at least)

 

[drktmplr12]

once he starts getting forechecked aggressively it all falls apart.

 

[McJedi]

buddy i knew about advanced stats before you even watched hockey, that's baby league stuff

once you know what you're talking about you'll learn to combine advanced stats with context (for context you actually need to watch the game/the players tho)

fyi Matheson's career ozone starts are about 45%, that's a bit of context for you, in no world would a "terrible defensive player" average 45% ozone starts on various different teams (and we're not talking about 1-2 season, that's 8 seasons)

that would essentially mean that various NHL coaches understand less about the game than HFers, that's what being delusional actually looks like

Montreal doesn't have a choice and you know this. You don't have better options to play for Dzone draws. Matheson gets the deployment and minutes he gets with the Habs because you have one of the youngest, least experienced and worst defenses in the NHL.

What is your coach going to do instead? Start Barron and Guhle in the Dzone a bunch? He'll do the best he can with the team he's given. The Habs sit in 15th place in the eastern conference right now. The Habs are surprisingly terrible. This doesn't make Matheson more valuable league wide, everyone knows his stats are affected by his huge ice time, lousy roster, young and struggling teammates. He's going to rack up a lot of points, a lot of turnovers, a lot of shots, a lot of -'s, a lot of ice time. He's got one of the worst expended goals for in the NHL as a result. This is an obvious outcome of his deployment in a role he's not good enough for but the best on the current roster to be thrown out there. But that doesn't mean he is doing well with the role and minutes. He's not. He's getting caved in.

And his ice time certainly doesn't mean he's a top pair guy. It just means he is a top pair guy on one of the league's worst teams with one of the leagues worst defenses.

He's a stop gap player. That is exactly what Matheson is. What he's being paid to be. A top pair guy on an awful team. How the heck does that translate to having a lot of value to a playoff club that will be concerned not with the points he'll put up but with how he'll handle the Vegas dump and chase forecheck game in round 1 of the playoffs in overtime.

Even you Habs fans admit Matheson struggles with turnovers and bad decision making. Is that the kind of defender playoff teams want? Remember... playoff teams have several better defenders than Matheson. So they don't need his PP skills. They are going to be much more focused on what loses playoff games. Turnovers and Dzone mistakes or shortcomings.

 

[McJedi]

You're 100% wrong

But either way it doesn't matter: Hughes ain't trading him this year (at least)

I'm not 100% wrong because you just said what I've been saying all along.

"Hughes ain't trading him this year (at least)". You're right. We agree. Matheson isn't getting traded this season.

One reason he's not getting traded is that no GM is calling Hughes about acquiring him this year either.

 

[John Mandalorian]

These silly takes that claim some homogeneous concencus among Habs fans couldn't be more laughably wrong if one was trying to make a bad take.


Matheson, not unlike Monahan earlier this year, appears to be vastly underrated by posters with a poor grasp of the factors that affect hockey performance... Those exists as much amongst Habs fans as they do in other fan bases. It really would not be hard to see that if one was actually curious as opposed to looking for opportunities to bash a fan base they seem quite obsessed by...




Recency bias... It's at the heart of a lot of poor takes, this one included.

What are you upset about this time?

You should lighten up and have a cocktail.

 

[Nicko999]

He would be the perfect fit for a team that lacks a PMD but has a couple of minute eating D that can take the thoughest match-ups.

And yes he is absolutely worth a 1st rounder+. Not sure on what planet some people live. A 60 pts D-man is worth that even if he was the worst defensively.

 

[ole ole]

that's a myth, Matheson isn't a terrible defensively, if he was terrible defensively he wouldn't be playing 25 minutes a night with 45% ozone/55% dzone starts. obviously i won't say he's good as well but he's definitely average to above average, his playstyle = he always has the puck and tries to make things happen, yes that'll lead to more turnovers than usual but it also leads to more opportunities

again this always comes from a bunch of people who haven't seen him play and just look at a bunch of advanced stats, no shit he won't have great advanced stats when he's playing on a bottom end team and he's the most played player on the team vs the toughest competition

Doughty also had bad advanced stats seasons as well as great ones, when L.A had great puck possession teams he had great adv stats, when they didn't he had bad number

The poster your replying too claimed he's only seen Matheson 3 times this season and all 3 games were against the Pens. I get we can all disregard the other 53 games he has played this season. Imagine that.

 

[BoneHutson]

Montreal doesn't have a choice and you know this. You don't have better options to play for Dzone draws. Matheson gets the deployment and minutes he gets with the Habs because you have one of the youngest, least experienced and worst defenses in the NHL.

What is your coach going to do instead? Start Barron and Guhle in the Dzone a bunch? He'll do the best he can with the team he's given. The Habs sit in 15th place in the eastern conference right now. The Habs are surprisingly terrible. This doesn't make Matheson more valuable league wide, everyone knows his stats are affected by his huge ice time, lousy roster, young and struggling teammates. He's going to rack up a lot of points, a lot of turnovers, a lot of shots, a lot of -'s, a lot of ice time. He's got one of the worst expended goals for in the NHL as a result. This is an obvious outcome of his deployment in a role he's not good enough for but the best on the current roster to be thrown out there. But that doesn't mean he is doing well with the role and minutes. He's not. He's getting caved in.

And his ice time certainly doesn't mean he's a top pair guy. It just means he is a top pair guy on one of the league's worst teams with one of the leagues worst defenses.

He's a stop gap player. That is exactly what Matheson is. What he's being paid to be. A top pair guy on an awful team. How the heck does that translate to having a lot of value to a playoff club that will be concerned not with the points he'll put up but with how he'll handle the Vegas dump and chase forecheck game in round 1 of the playoffs in overtime.

Even you Habs fans admit Matheson struggles with turnovers and bad decision making. Is that the kind of defender playoff teams want? Remember... playoff teams have several better defenders than Matheson. So they don't need his PP skills. They are going to be much more focused on what loses playoff games. Turnovers and Dzone mistakes or shortcomings.

Yeah, every teams in the playoffs have multiple top 10 offensive dmen (because thats what Matheson is this year)

 

[ElPrimeTime]

He would be the perfect fit for a team that lacks a PMD but has a couple of minute eating D that can take the thoughest match-ups.

And yes he is absolutely worth a 1st rounder+. Not sure on what planet some people live. A 60 pts D-man is worth that even if he was the worst defensively.

I'm sure the Predators would disagree with you whilst trying to unload Barrie.

 

[Miller Time]

What are you upset about this time?

You should lighten up and have a cocktail.

Mirrors are helpful lol

 

[Bouboumaster]

I'm not 100% wrong because you just said what I've been saying all along.

"Hughes ain't trading him this year (at least)". You're right. We agree. He isn't getting traded this season.

One reason he's not getting traded is that no GM is calling Hughes about acquiring him this year either.

You're 100% wrong still
Hughes is easily getting a 1st + for Matheson if he was looking to Trade him

 

[Nicko999]

I'm sure the Predators would disagree with you whilst trying to unload Barrie.

Barrie (along with a 1st) was traded for Ekholm.
So a PMD will always have value especially when his contract is cheap.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Petry is a big miss from us

Anderson, until last year, would have gone for a lot. Now we know better, but that's because we live in the future

Tatar, we knew during the 2021 playoffs that he wasn't going to get shit after His no show. Nobody asked anything for him after that

Do you know Who maybe could use Matheson?
You guys.
You are one injury away to go from "no elite defensemen but still Solid overall" d-corps to a catastrophe

What if Ekholm or Nurse goes down with an injury?
Kulak is a solid defenseman, and I'm a fan of his, but would you go in the playoffs with Kulak as your LHD number 2? This is a laughable Idea.

Teams will try to fetch Hanifin and Tanev, but if you can't get them, Matheson is a solid 3rd option, and yes, he blows Kulak out of the water for sure

Matheson, ideally, is a second pair guy Who can Play on first parking, while Kulak is a solid 3rd pairing that can Play on the second

Same logic applies to a bunch of Team you named btw

The Avs are top 5 in scoring in spite of having no 2C to speak of. Meanwhile, they have a goalie who's really struggling.

Great suggestion.