Or, I'll trade you...you never talk about goal scoring again and neither will I haha
Great rebuttal.This seems like an unnecessarily long post, and at times suspiciously facetious, but I do applaud you for the word schematically, it made me chuckle silently.
Great rebuttal.
Yet here you are, inserting yourself again, as you have in many similar threads (over the years) on the subject of Bure's style of play. I know I don't bother jumping in on discussions/debates over something I find "tiresome".You didn't bring anything new or interesting to the table, to rebut. It's the same old tired "I think Bure couldn't play under this coach because style" and "I don't think Bure could have had chemistry with Zhamnov because reasons" hypotheticals.
Player | Period | Start of shift | End of shift | Shift length | State |
Mike Bossy | 1 | 20:00 | 19:17 | 0:43 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 1 | 15:39 | 14:14 | 1:25 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 1 | 11:42 | 10:42 | 1:00 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 1 | 9:56 | 9:10 | 0:46 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 1 | 3:53 | 3:13 | 0:40 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 1 | 2:23 | 1:11 | 1:12 | PP |
Mike Bossy | 2 | 20:00 | 19:00 | 1:00 | PP |
Mike Bossy | 2 | 17:01 | 15:55 | 1:06 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 2 | 13:53 | 12:43 | 1:10 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 2 | 11:32 | 9:52 | 1:40 | PP |
Mike Bossy | 2 | 6:48 | 6:01 | 0:47 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 2 | 4:10 | 3:10 | 1:00 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 2 | 0:50 | 0:00 | 0:50 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 3 | 20:00 | 19:07 | 0:53 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 3 | 17:07 | 16:47 | 0:20 | EV |
Mike Bossy | 3 | 13:36 | 12:32 | 1:04 | PP/EV |
Mike Bossy | 3 | 9:36 | 9:02 | 0:34 | EV |
Player | Period | Shifts | TOI |
Mike Bossy | 1 | 6 | 5:46 |
Mike Bossy | 2 | 7 | 7:33 |
Mike Bossy | 3 | 4 | 2:51 |
Mike Bossy | Total | 17 | 16:10 |
Player | Period | Start of shift | End of shift | Shift length | State |
Pavel Bure | 1 | 20:00 | 19:10 | 0:50 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 1 | 18:00 | 16:30 | 1:30 | PP |
Pavel Bure | 1 | 14:45 | 14:38 | 0:07 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 1 | 12:20 | 9:55 | 2:25 | EV/PP |
Pavel Bure | 1 | 7:00 | 5:20 | 1:40 | SH/EV |
Pavel Bure | 1 | 4:25 | 3:45 | 0:40 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 1 | 2:40 | 1:58 | 0:42 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 1 | 0:48 | 0:00 | 0:48 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 20:00 | 19:00 | 1:00 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 17:50 | 16:40 | 1:10 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 15:30 | 14:03 | 1:27 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 13:17 | 11:33 | 1:44 | PP |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 10:10 | 8:05 | 2:05 | EV/PP |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 6:40 | 5:23 | 1:17 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 5:10 | 4:40 | 0:30 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 3:04 | 2:05 | 0:59 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 1:05 | 0:00 | 1:05 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 3 | 20:00 | 18:55 | 1:05 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 3 | 18:24 | 15:34 | 2:50 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 3 | 14:52 | 14:20 | 0:32 | SH |
Pavel Bure | 3 | 13:05 | 11:23 | 1:42 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 3 | 10:10 | 8:45 | 1:25 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 3 | 8:00 | 6:55 | 1:05 | EV |
Pavel Bure | 3 | 5:41 | 2:50 | 2:51 | PP/EV |
Pavel Bure | 3 | 1:25 | 0:07 | 1:18 | EV |
Player | Period | Shifts | TOI |
Pavel Bure | 1 | 8 | 8:42 |
Pavel Bure | 2 | 9 | 11:17 |
Pavel Bure | 3 | 8 | 12:48 |
Pavel Bure | Total | 25 | 32:47 |
Player | Pos | TOI | EVTOI | PPTOI | SHTOI |
Bryan Trottier | C | 20:08 | 12:13 | 4:07 | 3:48 |
Bob Nystrom | RW | 17:36 | 17:36 | 0:00 | 0:00 |
Bob Bourne | LW | 17:31 | 11:17 | 2:54 | 3:20 |
Mike Bossy | RW | 16:10 | 12:03 | 4:07 | 0:00 |
John Tonelli | LW | 14:34 | 14:34 | 0:00 | 0:00 |
Duane Sutter | RW | 13:34 | 10:40 | 2:54 | 0:00 |
Brent Sutter | C | 13:24 | 10:30 | 2:54 | 0:00 |
Butch Goring | C | 12:46 | 9:33 | 0:00 | 3:13 |
Anders Kallur | LW/RW | 12:42 | 10:05 | 1:57 | 0:40 |
Clark Gillies | LW | 11:52 | 9:42 | 2:10 | 0:00 |
Billy Carroll | LW/C | 9:06 | 3:08 | 0:00 | 5:58 |
Wayne Merrick | C | 8:56 | 8:56 | 0:00 | 0:00 |
Player | Pos | P1 TOI | P2 TOI | P3 TOI | TOI |
Bryan Trottier | C | 9:22 | 7:33 | 3:13 | 20:08 |
Bob Nystrom | RW | 3:40 | 6:51 | 7:05 | 17:36 |
Bob Bourne | LW | 6:54 | 5:48 | 4:49 | 17:31 |
Mike Bossy | RW | 5:46 | 7:33 | 2:51 | 16:10 |
John Tonelli | LW | 4:10 | 5:41 | 4:43 | 14:34 |
Duane Sutter | RW | 3:14 | 5:36 | 4:44 | 13:34 |
Brent Sutter | C | 3:14 | 5:36 | 4:34 | 13:24 |
Butch Goring | C | 4:51 | 5:16 | 2:39 | 12:46 |
Anders Kallur | LW/RW | 1:08 | 6:13 | 5:21 | 12:42 |
Clark Gillies | LW | 5:04 | 2:18 | 4:30 | 11:52 |
Billy Carroll | LW/C | 3:15 | 0:00 | 5:51 | 9:06 |
Wayne Merrick | C | 3:22 | 1:35 | 3:59 | 8:56 |
Might be worthwhile to compare a couple of close games with the same result for their teams.
No doubt Florida Bure played more than Bossy in general but in that 8-3 game Trottier and Bossy obviously got idled down for a game that was well in hand.
Bure on the losing end probably played a bit more then normal trying to catch up.
Saying Bure was a better goalscorer is not the same thing as saying he was a better player and I think that's getting lost on some people here.
This is usually a big deal, but Bossy-Bure you can more do it career vs career because they both did not play much post drop, one season for Bossy, not sure for Bure.
Even if Bure played a lot of his game in good scoring environnemnt (92-93-94-95) I would imagine Bossy played in general in the highest time ever in that regard too.
But Bossy did really well in the playoff (and in the playoff against the very solid team), against the good team during the regular season and best on best tournament, both proved themselves to be good in high level hockey, I am not sure we can give much an edge to the other in that regard.Bure excelled in a much more competitive league than Bossy.
For those who are comparing stats between Bure and Bossy, I brought up the difference in ice time, where Bure played significantly more ice time than Bossy in his peak goal scoring years. I've gone through a game for each of them and actually tracked the ice time. In each of the games I chose, Bure and Bossy scored a hat trick. Bure played 32 minutes in the game, and Bossy played 16 minutes.
Mike Bossy
I chose Game 4 of the 1983 series against the Boston Bruins, which the Islanders won 8-3, scoring 5 goals in the third period to blow out the Bruins. Bossy scored goals to make it 3-2, 4-2, and 6-2.
1982-83 Prince of Wales Conference Finals Game 4, Boston Bruins vs. New York Islanders Box Score: May 3, 1983 | Hockey-Reference.com
Get the latest box score updates on the Boston Bruins vs. New York Islanders game played on May 3, 1983 on Hockey-Reference.comwww.hockey-reference.com
Here are Bossy's shifts.
Player Period Start of shift End of shift Shift length State Mike Bossy 1 20:00 19:17 0:43EV Mike Bossy 1 15:39 14:14 1:25EV Mike Bossy 1 11:42 10:42 1:00EV Mike Bossy 1 9:56 9:10 0:46EV Mike Bossy 1 3:53 3:13 0:40EV Mike Bossy 1 2:23 1:11 1:12PP Mike Bossy 2 20:00 19:00 1:00PP Mike Bossy 2 17:01 15:55 1:06EV Mike Bossy 2 13:53 12:43 1:10EV Mike Bossy 2 11:32 9:52 1:40PP Mike Bossy 2 6:48 6:01 0:47EV Mike Bossy 2 4:10 3:10 1:00EV Mike Bossy 2 0:50 0:00 0:50EV Mike Bossy 3 20:00 19:07 0:53EV Mike Bossy 3 17:07 16:47 0:20EV Mike Bossy 3 13:36 12:32 1:04PP/EV Mike Bossy 3 9:36 9:02 0:34EV
Player Period Shifts TOI Mike Bossy 1 6 5:46Mike Bossy 2 7 7:33Mike Bossy 3 4 2:51Mike Bossy Total 1716:10
Overall, Bossy played 17 shifts, totalling about 16 minutes of time on ice. He didn't play a shift in the last 9 minutes of the game, when the Islanders already had 8 goals and a 5-6 goal lead. He was fourth in ice time among Islander forwards, behind Bryan Trottier (20:08), Bob Nystrom (17:36), and Bob Bourne (17:31).
And here are Bossy's three goals.
First goal by Bossy, a between-the-legs pass from Anders Kallur on the rush beat both Boston D-men, and Bossy beat Peeters with a quick shot.
Second goal by Bossy shows his absurdly quick release as he skated to the high slot and one-timed a saucer pass from the corner.
Third goal by Bossy. Potvin hit him with a pass for a breakaway on the power play. Bossy tucked it under Peeters while being hooked from behind and turned around. The announcers were just trashing Peeters for his poor lateral movement by this time,
Pavel Bure
I tracked Bure's ice time for a Toronto-Florida regular season game on March 17, 2001. Bure scored all three goals in a 5-3 loss to Toronto.
Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Florida Panthers Box Score: March 17, 2001 | Hockey-Reference.com
Get the latest box score updates on the Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Florida Panthers game played on March 17, 2001 on Hockey-Reference.comwww.hockey-reference.com
Here are Bure's three goals. First, second, third. On all three goals, he received a pass with speed in the neutral zone, skated over the blue line, and beat Curtis Joseph with a shot taken at speed.
Here are Bure's shifts.
Player Period Start of shift End of shift Shift length StatePavel Bure 1 20:00 19:10 0:50EV Pavel Bure 1 18:00 16:30 1:30PP Pavel Bure 1 14:45 14:38 0:07EV Pavel Bure 1 12:20 9:55 2:25EV/PP Pavel Bure 1 7:00 5:20 1:40SH/EV Pavel Bure 1 4:25 3:45 0:40EV Pavel Bure 1 2:40 1:58 0:42EV Pavel Bure 1 0:48 0:00 0:48EV Pavel Bure 2 20:00 19:00 1:00EV Pavel Bure 2 17:50 16:40 1:10EV Pavel Bure 2 15:30 14:03 1:27EV Pavel Bure 2 13:17 11:33 1:44PP Pavel Bure 2 10:10 8:05 2:05EV/PP Pavel Bure 2 6:40 5:23 1:17EV Pavel Bure 2 5:10 4:40 0:30EV Pavel Bure 2 3:04 2:05 0:59EV Pavel Bure 2 1:05 0:00 1:05EV Pavel Bure 3 20:00 18:55 1:05EV Pavel Bure 3 18:24 15:34 2:50EV Pavel Bure 3 14:52 14:20 0:32SH Pavel Bure 3 13:05 11:23 1:42EV Pavel Bure 3 10:10 8:45 1:25EV Pavel Bure 3 8:00 6:55 1:05EV Pavel Bure 3 5:41 2:50 2:51PP/EV Pavel Bure 3 1:25 0:07 1:18EV
Player Period Shifts TOIPavel Bure 1 8 8:42Pavel Bure 2 9 11:17Pavel Bure 3 8 12:48Pavel Bure Total 25 32:47
Overall, Bure played 25 shifts, totalling about 32 minutes of ice time, which was first on the Panthers. He played his most minutes in the third period, almost 13 of 20 minutes.
So we all know Bossy had some advantages. Better teammates and playmakers to set him up. He played in a higher scoring era against worse goalies. But he also had to play within a team system that was focused on winning. Many other great goal scorers would be out there in the last 10 minutes of the game trying to score more. And in the case of Bossy and Bure specifically, Bure played much more ice time.