Confirmed with Link: Meier, Harrington, 3 prospects, Col's '24 5th to Devils for 2023 1st, Zetterlund, Johanson, Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin, conditional 2024 1st, '24 7th

It's not as bad as people are making it, but the conditions on the 1st/2nd and us retaining salary shows that Grier was not the person commanding the conversation by any means. The salary retention makes no difference to us but we gave them a kicker in an already prudent trade for NJ, not a fleece but not a great return, more like an okay return with high hopes.
Gave up like $800k of real money because it was that or take on another crappy contract to balance the finances. So would you rather have retained or taken on Miles Wood’s expiring UFA contract as another cap dump?
 
Devils fan here, just wanted to give my take on the pieces you guys are getting. I think you made out much better than most people are giving you guys credit for.

You are all going to absolutely LOVE Zetterlund. He is listed at 5'11" but I think he's an inch or possibly two shorter than that given how he stands in interviews. That being said, his weight is listed at 220 lbs and that is absolutely on the money. This dude is an absolute beef cake, strong as a bull and the best motor I've seen on a Devils player since Zach Parise. He can't touch Parise's skill, but his hustle and strength are fantastic. His shot is an absolute bullet, but he really struggles with accuracy and usually shoots wide. Still, he can produce in a top-6 role and is really great at creating havoc in the offensive zone. Forechecking monster. He is an excellent 3rd liner and tbh probably has room to grow into a 2nd liner.

Mukhamadullin got a raw deal from a lot of fans and draft "experts" because the Devils reached a bit when they took him in the 1st round. He was the Devils third pick of the 2020 1st round, and they didn't have a 2nd so we swung for the fences on a high upside pick. I also think the Russian factor plays a big role in it, if his name was Robert Johnson and he was drafted out of Mississauga people would be praising him for being a high-ceiling project pick. He has since shut up a lot of critics by holding his own as a teenager in the KHL - I believe he broke the record for most points by a teenage defenseman in KHL history. He's big and moves very well for his size, good amount of offensive sizzle. He is not great at stopping and starting in the defensive zone and is often slow to make his reads. He is certainly a project, but if you let him simmer you will be rewarded. He came over last spring to join Utica for their playoff run and has indicated that he wants to come over to North America full time this year and is willing to play in the KHL. He seems like a shy and humble kid, talked about how hard it was adjusting to America and how much he missed his family last spring. He is not ready for the NHL, be patient with him.

Okhotiuk is a guy that was also probably overdrafted. By 2019 the Devils had a lot of smaller skilled, so they overcorrected by taking some really big defensive defenseman a bit earlier than they probably should have. He's big and throws absolutely crushing hits. He is just good enough of a skater and passer to not be considered a pylon. He is an adequate bottom-pairing guy and could probably be a decent 2nd pairing option IF he has a really strong partner. He came into camp this year with a chance to earn a roster spot but got beat out by Brendan Smith. Then when Marino went down we tried both Bahl and Okhotiuk on the bottom pairing and Bahl has seemingly ran away with the spot. He was relegated to our #8 defenseman and was almost certainly going to get leapfrogged by Luke Hughes and Mukhamadullin within the next year. High floor/low ceiling bottom pairing physical 5-6 defenseman who has just enough offensive competency to not hurt you.

Johnsson is not the worst player in the world but he's as dumb as a f***ing door knob. He is a pretty good skater, has a pretty good shot, and isn't afraid to drive to the net. But he has a -100 IQ and absolutely no vision or hockey sense. Really frustrating player. He can, in theory, do a lot, but in practice he just puts his head down and skates in straight lines like an idiot. He produced in Toronto with Matthews and he produced in NJ with Bratt. If you have a nice offensive pair in your top-6, you can plug him into there and he won't screw anything up. But unless he's getting spoonfed premium opportunities then he's not going to do much. He straight up lost his job in training camp to Zetterlund and has spent the whole season in the AHL. This is purely a cap dump from our perspective, but if you guys need a warm body I suppose you could do worse.

tl;dr: Zetterlund is a very nice player who you will all fall in love with immediately. Mukhamadullin has a huge ceiling but needs some time to polish his game. Okhotiuk will probably have a decent career as a depth player. Johnsson is just a guy. IMO you guys got two very good pieces and one pretty decent piece. In addition to the draft picks. Granted this is just my personal impression and I could be wrong. Best of luck to these guys going forward.
 
2 1sts, two interesting D prospects that can actually be pretty good (especially Mukh) and a good complementary player in Zetterlund is not a bad return… I’m kind of happy with it, though wish we got more of a blue chip prospect.
You are going to love the way OKY plays he is a throw back dman who likes to hit and doesn't mind having to fight but he can skate.Once his confidence grows he should be a solid 3rd pair....Muk has a ton of skill and will be a strong two way dman....Z is a good two way player can play up or down....The picks are up to Grier....It had to hurt to get Timo and this hurt and trading away first will hurt any team....No guarantee we sign Meier not a bad haul imo....
 
You are going to love the way OKY plays he is a throw back dman who likes to hit and doesn't mind having to fight but he can skate.Once his confidence grows he should be a solid 3rd pair....Muk has a ton of skill and will be a strong two way dman....Z is a good two way player can play up or down....The picks are up to Grier....It had to hurt to get Timo and this hurt and trading away first will hurt any team....No guarantee we sign Meier not a bad haul imo....

No, what would have hurt is if you lost one of your top prospects for probably the 2nd best power forward in the game. You gave up a bunch of ‘meh’ prospects and a late 1st and most likely a late 2nd round pick. Not only that, but Grier bent over and spread his cheeks to give Fitz protection on his picks and retain 50% of the contract.

For the people on this board that were always saying “fire Doug Wilson”, you’re about to find out what it’s like to have a franchise crippling GM who has no idea what he’s doing.
 
No, what would have hurt is if you lost one of your top prospects for probably the 2nd best power forward in the game. You gave up a bunch of ‘meh’ prospects and a late 1st and most likely a late 2nd round pick. Not only that, but Grier bent over and spread his cheeks to give Fitz protection on his picks and retain 50% of the contract.

This is why I find a lot of posts talking about the "great package" San Jose received to be patronizing at best, and trolling, at worst.
 
You are going to love the way OKY plays he is a throw back dman who likes to hit and doesn't mind having to fight but he can skate.Once his confidence grows he should be a solid 3rd pair....Muk has a ton of skill and will be a strong two way dman....Z is a good two way player can play up or down....The picks are up to Grier....It had to hurt to get Timo and this hurt and trading away first will hurt any team....No guarantee we sign Meier not a bad haul imo....
Sounds like Brenden Dillon around the time that we acquired him in 2014-15. Dillon improved as a puck mover to be adequate even if never terrific. There's a spot for guys that are mobile and can PK and play on the 3rd pairing. Need to address the right side of the defensive group, but not a bad start to the future of the left side with Muk, Okhotyuk, and Ferraro.
 
I love all the NJ fans trying to convince us that there is value somewhere in this trade haha. SJ got a 3rd liner who's on an expiring RFA contract, a long shot Russian project D-man, a physical bottom pairing / 7th D-man, a late 1st rounder, and a maybe 1st rounder if things go well. Best case is the Sharks get a 3rd liner and a second pairing D-man it seems. I was hoping for quality not quantity. Its a strong draft year, maybe theyll hit on someone in the late 20's and save this trade.
 
No, what would have hurt is if you lost one of your top prospects for probably the 2nd best power forward in the game. You gave up a bunch of ‘meh’ prospects and a late 1st and most likely a late 2nd round pick. Not only that, but Grier bent over and spread his cheeks to give Fitz protection on his picks and retain 50% of the contract.

For the people on this board that were always saying “fire Doug Wilson”, you’re about to find out what it’s like to have a franchise crippling GM who has no idea what he’s doing.
Let's cool the jets on "2nd best power forward in the game" overhype. Teal tinted glasses boost up your perception of Meier (along with the fact that he was our first top 10 pick in 8 years at the time it happened). He's not even the best power forward from his own draft class (Rantanen). There are plenty of others that are in the mix and likely better as well. Timo is maybe in the back end of the top 5 at best and probably closer to the back half of the top 10.

I love all the NJ fans trying to convince us that there is value somewhere in this trade haha. SJ got a 3rd liner who's on an expiring RFA contract, a long shot Russian project D-man, a physical bottom pairing / 7th D-man, a late 1st rounder, and a maybe 1st rounder if things go well. Best case is the Sharks get a 3rd liner and a second pairing D-man it seems. I was hoping for quality not quantity. Its a strong draft year, maybe theyll hit on someone in the late 20's and save this trade.
You really said "Longshot Russian project D-Man" about a 1st round pick like he's Yevgeni Kashnikov. Woof, what a bad take.
 
Let's cool the jets on "2nd best power forward in the game" overhype. Teal tinted glasses boost up your perception of Meier (along with the fact that he was our first top 10 pick in 8 years at the time it happened). He's not even the best power forward from his own draft class (Rantanen). There are plenty of others that are in the mix and likely better as well. Timo is maybe in the back end of the top 5 at best and probably closer to the back half of the top 10.


You really said "Longshot Russian project D-Man" about a 1st round pick like he's Yevgeni Kashnikov. Woof, what a bad take.
Always snapping back in the most dramatic ways haha. Long shot might have been a little extra but dont act like this guy is anything close to a sure thing. And you know that was the point, im sure.
 
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Let's cool the jets on "2nd best power forward in the game" overhype. Teal tinted glasses boost up your perception of Meier (along with the fact that he was our first top 10 pick in 8 years at the time it happened). He's not even the best power forward from his own draft class (Rantanen). There are plenty of others that are in the mix and likely better as well. Timo is maybe in the back end of the top 5 at best and probably closer to the back half of the top 10.


You really said "Longshot Russian project D-Man" about a 1st round pick like he's Yevgeni Kashnikov. Woof, what a bad take.

Fine.. behind Drai, Rantanen, M. Tkachuk. Top 2 to top 5, my point remains the same.
 
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I would not be disappointed in the return in case if Meier was going UFA, but nothing was forcing Grier to execute this deal yet.
You are giving your best player... for this.
Mike Grier has a long road to go, to become a good GM.
Force, no but the only other option was to throw a boatload of money at Timo. That wasn’t good for the team.
 
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Then seriously, you have a different offer which is to keep him for now - qualify him for 1 year at $10m. If he has another excellent year, he's a phenomenal true rental at the '24 TDL. A 27 year old power forward would fetch a bag next year if he's in for the short haul. You could also revisit in the summer when more teams might have been in the mix too.

It feels like we had a closed mentality on this one. It smells like a guy who was told the shop was about to close, so he swept everything he could see off the shelves regardless.
Maybe Timo didn’t want that. He might have said, “I want a chance at a Cup.”
We are probably never going to know. What’s done is done. Next game.
 
Fine.. behind Drai, Rantanen, M. Tkachuk. Top 2 to top 5, my point remains the same.
Tage Thompson, Brady Tkachuk. and others as well. He's probably a top 30-40ish forward in the league overall. Very good player, not elite. Bonafide top line player on most any team in the league, but closer to Evander Kane skill level than a Rantanen or some of the others that are ahead of him.
 
And yet not a full year later, that trade isn't looking so bad. Bystedt has seen his stock rise after the WJC and now has some evaluators saying he could project to a 2C, Havelid still looks like a nice pull at 45 and is seen by many as a 2nd pairing defender, and Lund at 34 is having a promising freshman season at Northeastern.
Good point. They’re not “garbage.”
 
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No, what would have hurt is if you lost one of your top prospects for probably the 2nd best power forward in the game. You gave up a bunch of ‘meh’ prospects and a late 1st and most likely a late 2nd round pick. Not only that, but Grier bent over and spread his cheeks to give Fitz protection on his picks and retain 50% of the contract.

For the people on this board that were always saying “fire Doug Wilson”, you’re about to find out what it’s like to have a franchise crippling GM who has no idea what he’s doing.
The sky is falling!!
 
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This is why I find a lot of posts talking about the "great package" San Jose received to be patronizing at best, and trolling, at worst.
The word was an “A” prospect, another prospect and a first.
Grier did that. I know, I know, we all thought Nemec or Mercer. Muk is an A- prospect. Yes, there will be some posts about how bad he is. Charts and things but this kid is high ceiling.
 
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I don't think Grier punted this - I don't think he got offered better assests from other teams or chose to pursue Mukhamadullin instead of Mercer/Nemec

Maybe St. Louis offered a higher draft pick than NJD but you would have to imagine it was top 10 protected.

So anyways I think this is simply a case of the current GM 'meta' is you don't trade away your top prospects anymore. And Doug Wilson taught everyone to protect your draft picks.
 
I love all the NJ fans trying to convince us that there is value somewhere in this trade haha.

We've followed these players since they got drafted, followed them in juniors, prospect camps, AHL, KHL, we know what they are and have grown an emotional bond with them. Even though they are no longer Devils' players, it's kinda insulting for someone who has no idea what they are talking about to just call them trash nothing return. I think a lot of Devils posters also wanted to chip in and give some insight on what you are getting. But hey by all means be miserable and hate on your own players.
 
No, what would have hurt is if you lost one of your top prospects for probably the 2nd best power forward in the game. You gave up a bunch of ‘meh’ prospects and a late 1st and most likely a late 2nd round pick. Not only that, but Grier bent over and spread his cheeks to give Fitz protection on his picks and retain 50% of the contract.

For the people on this board that were always saying “fire Doug Wilson”, you’re about to find out what it’s like to have a franchise crippling GM who has no idea what he’s doing.
If you want to be cynical about it and dismiss good players for no reason then I'm not going to stop you. But for as happy as Devils fans are to have Timo, losing Big Z is a gut punch. Nearly everyone on the Devils board would have unanimously preferred to give up Alex Holtz, a guy who was the #7 overall pick three years ago, over Zetterlund. I would wager most of us would have preferred to give up Kevin Bahl over Okhotiuk as well. And personally, I would have rather given up Sheamus Casey over Mukhamadullin.

These are pieces we all like and didn't want to give up. The only reason we're okay giving them up is because we've been rebuilding for 8 years and have arguably the best prospect pool in the NHL (not anymore though).

Anyone who thought an unextended Meier would return a Dawson Mercer or Simon Nemec quality player was delusional. If you want to blame Grier for not allowing buyers to negotiate an extension then go ahead, but without an extension in place you just simply weren't going to get a better offer than this one.
 
Good point. They’re not “garbage.”
Organizational Outlook:
1st liner - Eklund, 2023 1st rounder
2nd liner - N/A (might have someone squeeze into this slot, but seems like a hole right now and not going to paint it rosier than it is)
3rd liner - Bordeleau, Bystedt, Lund, Zetterlund, Kaut
4th liner / Extra - Wiesblatt, Coe, and anyone with size and skating from the 2020-22 draft

#1/2 - N/A
#3/4 - Muk
#5/6 - Okhotiuk, Knyzhov, Kniazev, Laroque

G - N/A

Would imagine that not including Robins/Gushchin will get some people confused/upset, but the way that their games and lack of size have translated into production on the Cuda this year doesn't give me warm and fuzzies. Add in that they don't have a game that can play on the 4th line like a Coe or Wiesblatt potentially could and that is why I excluded them.
 
If you want to be cynical about it and dismiss good players for no reason then I'm not going to stop you. But for as happy as Devils fans are to have Timo, losing Big Z is a gut punch. Nearly everyone on the Devils board would have unanimously preferred to give up Alex Holtz, a guy who was the #7 overall pick three years ago, over Zetterlund. I would wager most of us would have preferred to give up Kevin Bahl over Okhotiuk as well. And personally, I would have rather given up Sheamus Casey over Mukhamadullin.

These are pieces we all like and didn't want to give up. The only reason we're okay giving them up is because we've been rebuilding for 8 years and have arguably the best prospect pool in the NHL (not anymore though).

Anyone who thought an unextended Meier would return a Dawson Mercer or Simon Nemec quality player was delusional. If you want to blame Grier for not allowing buyers to negotiate an extension then go ahead, but without an extension in place you just simply weren't going to get a better offer than this one.
I can understand why you guys liked those guys, but lets be honest this hasnt hurt your prospect pool in the slightest. Its still top 3 if not the best in the league and this wont effect your future in the short or long term.

These were all guys NJ had no room for going forward, and likely wouldve been wasted anyways.
 
And yet other teams weren’t lining up to do it.
You are making an assumption. If you listen to what Grier said, he chose the offer that had players vs futures. Whether that is actually better or not is unknown. You are within your rights to like the trade, it was basically my expectation but that does not make it 'good'. Can it be good, of course it can. Its not so bad that the Sharks dont have a chance to be better off with what they got vs keeping Timo. Its that you traded a first line power forward for nothing that projects to be a first line anything. If Muk turns into a top 3 guy, it washes a bit. If the Sharks get both firsts, draft well and muk turns into that guy, thats about as good as they could ever hope for.
 
We've followed these players since they got drafted, followed them in juniors, prospect camps, AHL, KHL, we know what they are and have grown an emotional bond with them. Even though they are no longer Devils' players, it's kinda insulting for someone who has no idea what they are talking about to just call them trash nothing return. I think a lot of Devils posters also wanted to chip in and give some insight on what you are getting. But hey by all means be miserable and hate on your own players.
The problem with this argument is its all based in emotion. Im sorry you feel this way but dont jump into the other teams board after they lost the best player they've drafted in a long time and moved him for some spare parts. You may like these players and yes of course they have value. But none of them are likely to make a big impact in SJ. And who has no idea, cmon. Just reading the scouting reports like everyone else.
 

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