Confirmed with Link: Meier, Harrington, 3 prospects, Col's '24 5th to Devils for 2023 1st, Zetterlund, Johanson, Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin, conditional 2024 1st, '24 7th

[timorous me]

Was it Steve Jobs who said he'd take a home run over two doubles? Mike Grier, oh how I wish you'd read his playbook!

But was there a home run actually on offer from any team?

I think its just pretty disappointing when the nicest thing anyone can say about the best prospect is that he might somehow be able to overcome significant challenges and become a second pairing D

You're making it sound like Mukhmadullin is disabled or something. He just turned 21, so other than blue-chip prospects it's hard to guarantee such an outcome for a defenseman. That being said, the noise from people who have seen him play this year is quite positive, and the video of him in action is promising. Where are the "significant challenges" facing him being a 2nd-pairing d-man in the future? He's got size, passing ability, solid skating, and has already competed quite effectively, it seems, at a pretty high level.

For Meier, Sharks held all the leverage including an option to extend for 1 year. GMMG bombs the trade unless Meier somehow comes back and re-signs with the Sharks (unlikely given that it was reported Meier wants the security of an additional year). Boggles my mind how the 2024 condition couldn't even get tied in with a contract extension. Granted, this is purely from a value perspective - no one knows how the prospects are going to pan out.

Did the Sharks actually hold all the leverage here? It seems to me that there weren't really that many teams capable of trading for Timo (due to cap constraints; I don't doubt teams like the Leafs and Rangers would have loved him, but it only makes sense to trade for him with an eye toward at least two playoff runs, if not many more with a contract extension). The $10 million QO for next year doesn't really help teams like those two.

It seems like nothing ever really materialized from Buffalo or Winnipeg, and Vegas's offer was a big question mark (and could honestly do a lot of damage with our fan base if not a massive haul). St. Louis? I'm not sure we were getting anything amazing from them--all depends on the prospect offered. Two late firsts, I'm guessing, which is comparable to what we'll get from NJ, so were the other pieces as valuable as those we got from the Devils? And that's another in-conference deal, so a higher return would be fair to expect.

That leaves us with the Devils and Hurricanes, and we don't know how much the Canes were really willing to offer. If Grier had waited until the draft, would he get as much? How many more teams could realistically get involved if there was to be no promise of an extension? The cap will still be an issue for many next year.

All I'm saying is that while this return doesn't exactly get pulses racing out of excitement, I think the level of leverage is easily overstated. The Horvat trade should have been a warning sign for us. It was never likely Grier was going to get the kind of value that would make us happy, but that's the nature of these trades.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I think we're going to need some in-depth scouting reports...maybe from a guy who is like a coyote halfway up the wall?

 

[Grinner]

I think we're going to need some in-depth scouting reports...maybe from a guy who is like a coyote halfway up the wall?

 

[TheBeard]

My evaluation hinges on Hodge’s opinion.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Was it Steve Jobs who said he'd take a home run over two doubles? Mike Grier, oh how I wish you'd read his playbook!

Really disappointed - not by the move (which was expected), or even the underwhelming level and projection of the prospects involved... but the mindset of how MG wants to team build.

I'm a realist - if Timo wasn't going to be signed long term, I suspect perhaps Mike feels he got a good slice here. But realistically, unless SM becomes a dependable, contributing Top 4 NHLer, this one has the potential to look and stay bad for a long time.

I get the feeling Mike knows how to round out the bottom of a solid NHL roster. Sadly, I'm not sold he realises how he's going to have to fill the top half of it.

FWIW, I now wouldn't dream of trading EK65. Shame- he's clearly at the top of his game and his asset value will never be higher than it is right now for the Sharks. But because I simply have no faith in Grier to turn it into anything of meaningful value.

It’s ironic that DW could never figure out how to round out the roster but could get stars while Grier may be the opposite

 

[OrrNumber4]

That's not a great article. Masisak really didn't do his due diligence on a history of Sharks trades. He lists off all these top players the Sharks acquired and traded away, but with insufficient context. He talks about the Sharks reacquiring Nabokov, but that was only so he could retire as a Shark.

When it comes to the Sharks selling off a top player for picks/prospects/youth, there are very few examples. OTTOMH, you have Kozlov, Nolan, and now Meier. I couldn't buy players like Clowe or Dillon, since they weren't top-talents at the time of trade, and I can't buy a player like Burns because cap flexibility was a big reason for that trade.

My evaluation hinges on Hodge’s opinion.

He's always an interesting sanity check.

 

[exchequer]

With Meier gone, the Sharks now have about $15m in cap friendly if they field the same roster.

Did the Sharks actually hold all the leverage here? It seems to me that there weren't really that many teams capable of trading for Timo (due to cap constraints; I don't doubt teams like the Leafs and Rangers would have loved him, but it only makes sense to trade for him with an eye toward at least two playoff runs, if not many more with a contract extension). The $10 million QO for next year doesn't really help teams like those two.

There's teams that would be willing to take Meier with 50% retained and with salary going back to the Sharks since the Sharks are going to tank and rebuild anyways. Timo at $5m and a bad contract going to the Sharks is easily worth another 1st.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

I think Bedard or Fantilli could save this "retool", but barring that I just think we are on a crash course for Arizona Coyotes land.

It won't be the coyotes, but I think they're guaranteed to become the Canucks (if they aren't already) if they hold on to the big boys past this offseason. Miss the playoffs for a handful of years, get some good but not #1-2 OA picks, squeak in barely one year, then immediately go back to shitting the bed. If Vancouver can somehow manage to trade JT Miller, it should give Grier the confidence that he can/should move Hertl even if Miller is better, but I'm assuming he keeps him for at least 5 years.

Until I'm proven from him otherwise, I'm sure he sees Couture/Karlsson/Vlasic as Kopitar/Brown/Doughty and hopes that he'll be able to swing it around like they did. Boy this is gonna be rough to watch. It's really Bedard this year or bust.

EDIT: Nevermind. I totally thought Joe Will forgot to add an NMC into Hertl's contract. Yea, they're screwed.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

But was there a home run actually on offer from any team?

Then seriously, you have a different offer which is to keep him for now - qualify him for 1 year at $10m. If he has another excellent year, he's a phenomenal true rental at the '24 TDL. A 27 year old power forward would fetch a bag next year if he's in for the short haul. You could also revisit in the summer when more teams might have been in the mix too.

It feels like we had a closed mentality on this one. It smells like a guy who was told the shop was about to close, so he swept everything he could see off the shelves regardless.

 

[exchequer]

It feels like we had a closed mentality on this one. It smells like a guy who was told the shop was about to close, so he swept everything he could see off the shelves regardless.

It doesn't portend well for a rebuild when the GM does a poor job of asset management. Rinse and repeat when the next homegrown RFA is shown the door because the window hasn't opened yet.

 

[hohosaregood]

It won't be the coyotes, but I think they're guaranteed to become the Canucks (if they aren't already) if they hold on to the big boys past this offseason. Miss the playoffs for a handful of years, get some good but not #1-2 OA picks, squeak in barely one year, then immediately go back to shitting the bed. If Vancouver can somehow manage to trade JT Miller, it should give Grier the confidence that he can/should move Hertl even if Miller is better, but I'm assuming he keeps him for at least 5 years.

Until I'm proven from him otherwise, I'm sure he sees Couture/Karlsson/Vlasic as Kopitar/Brown/Doughty and hopes that he'll be able to swing it around like they did. Boy this is gonna be rough to watch. It's really Bedard this year or bust.

EDIT: Nevermind. I totally thought Joe Will forgot to add an NMC into Hertl's contract. Yea, they're screwed.

They're gonna fold the franchise before they're competitive with the Google complex coming in.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

They're gonna fold the franchise before they're competitive with the Google complex coming in.

I mean, moving really is possible. Just matters how long Hasso wants to hold on really. Arena is already empty and Meier was a big piece of the main show. Will they sell more than 10k nightly next season to watch 2C Sturm with Zetterlund and Kunin? Raiders already left and A's are next.

"Welcome to the VR San Jose Sharks experience, coming in 2027 where you can see your favorite stars Pavelski, Thornton and Meier on the ice instead!"

 

[Le Grand Quebecois]

What's the over/under on Grier keeping his job a full year after this?

 

[timorous me]

What's the over/under on Grier keeping his job a full year after this?

Unless he gets caught doing something inappropriate, like sleeping with a subordinate, I'd say the odds of him keeping his job a full year after this are somewhere between 99.9% and 100%.

 

[sharks_dynasty]

Similar odds as the fan base going ape sh** after a monumental trade.

 

[tiburon12]

Part of me wishes we had traded Hertl last year so Sharks fans would understand what it's like to be a seller. Rather than pan Grier for getting this monster return, maybe ya'll should think about all the great DW trades, wear the seller's shoes, and compare those returns to the returns we just got.

Burns + 2nd = Seto (damaged goods) + Coyle (our best prospect but middling at best) + 1st (Zach Philips bust)

Heatley + 5th = Cheechoo (damaged goods) + Michalek (good player but replaced by Heatley) + 2nd

Kane = O'Reagan + Conditional 1st & 4th

Our Meier return looks significantly better than those, that's for sure.

 

[Anomie2029]

I still can’t get over the fact that Sharks are retaining 50% of his salary, taking on a salary dump in Johnsson, AND added a pick - all for that underwhelming return.

It won't be the coyotes, but I think they're guaranteed to become the Canucks (if they aren't already) if they hold on to the big boys past this offseason. Miss the playoffs for a handful of years, get some good but not #1-2 OA picks, squeak in barely one year, then immediately go back to shitting the bed. If Vancouver can somehow manage to trade JT Miller, it should give Grier the confidence that he can/should move Hertl even if Miller is better, but I'm assuming he keeps him for at least 5 years.

I’m glad I’m not the only one that sees the Sharks as the next Canucks. If the Sharks were the Yotes, they’d be only adding players to get to the salary cap floor.

The Sharks are the Canucks - holding on to players too long, adding bottom six or bottom pairing players on inflated deals, and going to have good prospects get frustrated (can see Eklund shaking his head like Pettersson on the bench).

This team needs a full rebuild, and we have Grier saying he’s not going to do that. Why? You’ve pretty much doomed this franchise to more pain.

 

[Dicdonya]

What a wet fart of a trade this is. Yikes

Exactly what I said I feared Grier would do, get reasonable “value” but with zero high end pieces back.

This is quite literally a trade with the exact same crap the sharks have already had access to for the last 20 years. Late firsts, middle talent forward and D prospects. Not a winning formula for replacing or improving upon a guy like Meier, or winning a cup.

Oh well, thank goodness the worst case scenario of us accumulating enough points to screw ourselves out of a top 5ish pick before trading Meier seems unlikely. Grier tried that too though, and with his comments about expecting this move to speed things along, and not being in a true rebuild, I now officially have no faith in Grier vision. Damn oh well

 

[hohosaregood]

What a wet fart of a trade this is. Yikes

Exactly what I said I feared Grier would do, get reasonable “value” but with zero high end pieces back.

This is quite literally a trade with the exact same crap the sharks have already had access to for the last 20 years. Late firsts, middle talent forward and D prospects. Not a winning formula for replacing or improving upon a guy like Meier, or winning a cup.

Oh well, thank goodness the worst case scenario of us accumulating enough points to screw ourselves out of a top 5ish pick before trading Meier seems unlikely. Grier tried that too though, and with his comments about expecting this move to speed things along, and not being in a true rebuild, I now officially have no faith in Grier vision. Damn oh well

Did you ever have any faith in him? It's not really anything new to proclaim.

Anyways, can't wait for the 30 for 30 that reveals Grier's hiring was a tampering move to get New Jersey exactly what they needed to win the cup

 

[tiburon12]

Exactly what I said I feared Grier would do, get reasonable “value” but with zero high end pieces back.

This is quite literally a trade with the exact same crap the sharks have already had access to for the last 20 years. Late firsts, middle talent forward and D prospects. Not a winning formula for replacing or improving upon a guy like Meier, or winning a cup.

I just don't get what the alternative was. NJD and CAR both locked their high-end pieces away, Vegas had 0 to give, and STL was only offering picks. Sure, in fantasy land we can get what we want, but in reality Grier made his position known, got hit with a brick wall of "no's", and found a way around that wall to get more assets.

Before we knew Grier didn't want to sign Timo, he had the leverage to hold onto him and get a better deal. But he didnt want to do that and had to instead play a more even-matched game of negotiating.

Seriously, what specifically could he have done that would satisfy this want for high end pieces when none were available?

 

[Bizz]

I get the feeling Mike knows how to round out the bottom of a solid NHL roster. Sadly, I'm not sold he realises how he's going to have to fill the top half of it.

I felt the same way the minute he traded away the 11th overall pick for a much later 1st and whatever else garbage he picked up for trading down so low.

 

[timorous me]

I felt the same way the minute he traded away the 11th overall pick for a much later 1st and whatever else garbage he picked up for trading down so low.

And yet not a full year later, that trade isn't looking so bad. Bystedt has seen his stock rise after the WJC and now has some evaluators saying he could project to a 2C, Havelid still looks like a nice pull at 45 and is seen by many as a 2nd pairing defender, and Lund at 34 is having a promising freshman season at Northeastern.

 

[exchequer]

Part of me wishes we had traded Hertl last year so Sharks fans would understand what it's like to be a seller. Rather than pan Grier for getting this monster return, maybe ya'll should think about all the great DW trades, wear the seller's shoes, and compare those returns to the returns we just got.

Burns + 2nd = Seto (damaged goods) + Coyle (our best prospect but middling at best) + 1st (Zach Philips bust)

Heatley + 5th = Cheechoo (damaged goods) + Michalek (good player but replaced by Heatley) + 2nd

Kane = O'Reagan + Conditional 1st & 4th

Our Meier return looks significantly better than those, that's for sure.

Here's what we paid for other trades (all short term rentals which means there should have been some sort of discount):

Guerin = for #26
Campbell = Steve Bernier + #26
Nyquist = #60 + #65
Dominic Moore = #37

Other than maybe Brian Campbell, none of them are going to be the impact player that Timo will be for the Devils

 

[STL Shark]

I think Grier did a pretty decent job here. Nemec was never going to happen for a RFA, and neither was Mercer, Casey, or maybe even Holtz (though I'm starting to think Muk may have a brighter future than Holtz, but we'll see). I find it funny the Devils protected the '23 1st top two as it would take a miracle for NJ not to make the playoffs right now. They are the 3rd best team in the league right now so it's certainly possible they make the ECF one of the next two seasons to give them another 1st. I think I want them to make the ECF this season to guarantee the 24 1st and then maybe NJD have a worse season next year and they could draft 17-24 range, or maybe even miss the playoffs and get 11-16, but I doubt they will unless injuries ravage them.

There's a lot of young talent under 24 to follow in this organization now - Eklund, Muk, Zetterlund, Bystedt, Bordeleau, Gushchin, Robins, Kaut, Okhotiuk, Lund, and a probable top 5 pick. Not too bad. Of course the building of the talent pool is the simple part when you're dealing away guys like Meier and Karlsson. How the team is built when some of these young guys come up and how he fits veterans around them will be the interesting part.

Muk > Casey. Enough of the 5’10 defensemen that haven’t played hockey against grown men yet in their career.

Like I said throughout, if Grier wanted Casey he’d have gotten him with any of the picks we used on Bystedt, Lund, or Havelid (taken one pick before Casey). Getting Muk was a better haul than getting Casey.

 

[STL Shark]

All I'm going to say is I would give that up in a heartbeat for a player of timos caliber and so would everyone else.

And yet other teams weren’t lining up to do it. NJD built the best or second best prospect pool in the NHL. Fact that they were able to do a deal like this without having to touch one of the 3 pieces that would really hurt (Holtz, Nemec, and Mercer) is a credit to what they’ve built rather than a discredit to what Grier was able to get in a return.

I wanted it to hurt NJD, but I also am good with the package that we got back in return. This is more of a lesson for 5 years from now when we can be in position to go for it. When it’s time to go for it, don’t clutch into future late 1st round picks when the perfect fit is out there to be had.