Post-Game Talk: Meee-wow!!! Jets tame the kitties, 3-2 OT

[Inflict]

And yet in 7 NHL seasons his career high is 21pts, last year when he was given probably the most minutes of his career. At 30 years old you really think he is for some career years ahead?

If you need other players to carry you to 30 points, you do not have anything in the way of an offensive game at the NHL level.

I like Slater. He is a great 4th line C. He is not offensively inclined at all. That is fine. That is not at all what he is paid to do. But let's not kid ourselves here.

Not too mention the whole point is that a player with better offensive awareness combined with Wright's size and puck protection will increase Slater's offensive numbers.

But again, that's not the point. The point is to be attacking the opponent more, rather than sitting back and playing defense as the 4th line currently is.

I guess his 13 goals last year were luck then? I really think you are undervaluing Slater's offensive game. He is a 3rd line centre playing on the 4th line this year, as you mentioned, in a shutdown role. Give him better linemates, and if you are generous, more offensive zone starts and his numbers will trend upwards. I would actually like to see him on the 3rd line with Poni and Machacek or another winger (mittens maybe).

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Thing that bothers me about Miettinen is that he was one of the worst (along with Wheeler and Kane) at getting the puck out of the zone last year. He was terrible at our own blueline. That really rubbed me the wrong way. He was supposed to be the smart safe veteran and he kept coughing up the puck at the blueline. We'll see I guess, but I don't place if any faith in him personally.

That's always been his biggest weakness (that and having a brutal shot). My thing with Miettinen is that I don't know if he's ever been employed in an exclusively defensive role, which has always been his forte. Noel was using him on the point last season, FFS!

I think if you drilled it into Antti's head that you want him to be a meat and potatoes 4th line agitator and penalty killer, you might see those turnovers cut down. Just a theory and nothing more, but I can tell you that I've seen few players as miscast as Miettinen has been for much of his career.

 

[Bob E]

This. I really like our defensive depth in a year or two.

Buff
Enstrom
Bogosian
Postma
Redmond
Trouba

Stuart is a great 3rd pairing D. Everything you want on the PK. I'd hate to see him go, but a playoff team needing a shut-down defender would part with some assets for him.

Clitsome -- I don't know how he stays over Postma and Remond.

Clitsome, I agree. Don't think he has a long-term future with the Jets.

Stuart, would like to see him stick around. Like the grit, and hopefully he can stay in that 3rd pairing.

I think Trouba will move up your list, if that's a ranked list, pretty quickly once he gets here. Postma and Redmond can fill holes, but Trouba has the ability to be a real difference maker on the blueline, with a year or two of experience. IMO, Bogo and Trouba (along with Buff) greatly increases the quality of our d. Jets have to play with what they have for the moment, but the future looks fairly bright.

Postma is a nice offensive defensemen, but once Trouba arrives, i think most fans will be saying Paul-who? I think a Stuart/Redmond 3rd pairing has the potential to be a nasty, hard to play against, pairing. I like that.

 

[garret9]

And... Stuart scored the tying goal (one of Redmond's assists), delivered the hit of the game and helped with our 100% penalty kill!

I'm a big Stuart critic but he's done well with Buff/Bogo injuries

 

[fatschoonerrat]

Clitsome, I agree. Don't think he has a long-term future with the Jets.

Stuart, would like to see him stick around. Like the grit, and hopefully he can stay in that 3rd pairing.

I think Trouba will move up your list, if that's a ranked list, pretty quickly once he gets here. Postma and Redmond can fill holes, but Trouba has the ability to be a real difference maker on the blueline, with a year or two of experience. IMO, Bogo and Trouba (along with Buff) greatly increases the quality of our d. Jets have to play with what they have for the moment, but the future looks fairly bright.

Postma is a nice offensive defensemen, but once Trouba arrives, i think most fans will be saying Paul-who? I think a Stuart/Redmond 3rd pairing has the potential to be a nasty, hard to play against, pairing. I like that.

Yeah, I agree. No ranking, more of a chronological list. Whatever the case, all of those guys are young. If defense wins playoffs, our future is looking pretty good. Here's hoping Bogo comes back strong. I think that wrist injury goes way back. He had a much heavier shot as a rookie than he had later on.

 

[truck]

Postma and Redmond completely outplayed every Jets defender not named Enstrom. I'm sure they likely can't sustain it but if they did, I'd hope the Jets would trade Hainsey for an Oduya-like return and park Clitsome in the press box for the remainder of the year.

Burmi seemed to relish the opportunity to play a more offensive role. He really simplified his entries to the offensive zone and other than his timing being a bit off on a couple cross-seam passes he looked pretty dangerous. I also like how he played the front of the net more than ever - hopefully he can bulk up and continue that type of play. As always he was a hawk in the neutral zone picking off passes.

Ladd and Little takeaway a lot of pucks too.

That line would be tough to play against.

 

[truck]

I like the idea of being able to roll 4 lines out at teams that can all attack you and put the pressure on. I don't see that on our 4th line right now, it's too defensively orientated, IMO. Wright is a smart safe defensive forward, not an energy forward. He does not have the speed or hitting to be an "energy" forward. He does create some room in the offensive zone with puck protection and size, but that's where adding some offense on the line will enable them to cycle better and become a more consistent threat to opponents (not I did not say threat to score). I am not saying they should switch to an offensive focus, but improve the lines ability to maintain pressure, ala GST last year at times.

That line can't afford any hit defensively, they are already awful in thaf regard. If seems to me that they spend at least one shift a game doing some awful 5 on 5 penalty kill thing. They are terrible at clearing tje D zone. They do an alright job if they get into forecheck mode, but they horrify me in their own zone.

Swapping Thor for Mach is something I suggested last year. Stoll it seems like a somewhat lateral move to me. Neither is particularly good at hockey by my estimation... at least not at this level.

 

[garret9]

Anyone else notice that Blake Wheeler is -8 on the year? I think the Kane - Olli - Wheeler line needs to break up as they are not very good in their own end.

Pavelec has his worse sv% when Wheeler has been on the ice (0.797... yup a ****ing 0.797...). it's not due to more chances on the other team that Wheeler has a bad +/-. I commented on this on the first page of this thread.
<EDIT> Nope... I'm dumb... It's on the first page of the GDT... haha <EDIT>

Wheeler is getting out-chanced by the opposition (as is that whole line currently... unsure if that changed after this game though) but it isn't to a severe a degree where Wheeler deserves a +/- like that. +/- IMHO as a stand alone is the worst stat... that or shot blocking

 

[garret9]

And yet in 7 NHL seasons his career high is 21pts, last year when he was given probably the most minutes of his career. At 30 years old you really think he is for some career years ahead?

If you need other players to carry you to 30 points, you do not have anything in the way of an offensive game at the NHL level.

I like Slater. He is a great 4th line C. He is not offensively inclined at all. That is fine. That is not at all what he is paid to do. But let's not kid ourselves here.

Not too mention the whole point is that a player with better offensive awareness combined with Wright's size and puck protection will increase Slater's offensive numbers.

But again, that's not the point. The point is to be attacking the opponent more, rather than sitting back and playing defense as the 4th line currently is.

That's weird because Slater was our 5th highest goal scorer per minute...
The year before in Atlanta he was the 2nd highest goal scorer per minute (he was also getting more than two points per 60 mins, which only Kane and Wellwood accomplished last season)...
Small sample size but he's the 2nd highest goal scorer per minute this season...

Honestly the guy is more of a poor two-way guy where production wise he's weak 3rd liner or a very good 4th liner. He's got a good shot but he's a terrible distributer IMHO. But, you are absolutely correct in that Slater's best offensive years are behind him.

Honestly I think you overrate Machacek a bit, I don't think of him as a "good 3rd liner" but put him in the same category as Slater: below-average 3rd liner, above-average 4th liner.
For the same reasons as you though I would rather Wright-Slater-Machacek as I think they would push the play a bit better and keep possession better.

 

[scelaton]

My 2 cents, in no particular order:
1)Burmi looked a bit lost at the start, but finished strong. Not sure whether he'll end up between Little and Ladd, but I'd rather give him the top 6 minutes at this point than Scheifele.
2)Redmond and Postma are surprising to the upside, but Hainsey's play continues to impress me and he gets absolutely no respect around here!
3)Wheeler's goal was a beaut but he does give the puck away at times. Poni was invisible and Welly is making it hard for me to defend him. I discovered why he doesn't shoot much--it's because he can't!
4) I agree with Holden about the 4th line. Slater and Mittens, along with the Machacek of last year, would be a a big improvement. Sadly, that Machacek seems to have disappeared.

 

[garret9]

Alex Hemsky at AIH did Fenwick breakdown for 5v5, 4v5 and 5v4 for all our players for this game exclusive
(for those that don't know, Fenwick is just Corsi but ignores blocked shots (which is good for Stuart ))
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/winn.../winnipeg-jets-florida-panthers-fenwick-stats

Some key notes:
*we dominated the Panthers scoring-chance/possession-wise
*KJW leaves a bit for desire for scoring chances... but if the middle 6 can steer away tough competition and they keep scoring we should be fine
*I don't think it's any surprise that Ladd + Little who haven't been at their best for possession all of a sudden jump up with Burmistrov
*our PP was just sad... we've barely created any Fenwick events (scoring chances)... sad, sad Panda

Best results:
Postma +7
Clitsome +6 (probably mostly due to Postma...)
Little +6
Ladd +5
Burmistrov +5
Stuart +4

Worst results:
Wheeler -5
Jokinen -3
Kane -2

 

[TroubaFan1]

If that goal goes in on pavelec its called weak.

Was a great shot by little

Agreed on the Pavs comment. Personally I thought he made some big saves today to help us get the win.

 

[Gnova]

Only bad thing was Florida for a point

Giving Florida a point is a mon-issue. No way are they going to be competing for a PO spot.

Not a great game by the Jets, hardly even a good game, but a fantastic two PTS.

 

[Gnova]

I agree. He should bring a decent return considering the need for a veteran defenseman around the league is high.


That 4-3 powerplay until Little scored looked brutal. It's obviously a situation that hasn't been practiced.

One thing I didn't like was Wheeler in the slot and having Kane and Jokinen cycling the puck. Kane does not handle the puck well when not skating up ice. Rather see Burmi on the pp with Jokinen.

Happy we got the 2 points and hopefully Pavs gained back some confidence.

I think the Jets need to re-sign Hainsey if possible not dump him for the exact reason listed in your reason to trade him. Veteran D men are sought after and the Jets are lacking in that area.

 

[knorthern knight]

I realize that the Jets were flat, etc. But they were missing the BB's (Byfuglian/Bogosian), and that has to hurt overall. The defense do get involved in the attack; cycling/pinching/shooting. Playing in a similar situation last season would've been a disaster. This year, the Jets kept themselves in the game, and took advantage of some questionable penalties to win.

 

[King Woodballs]

Agreed on the Pavs comment. Personally I thought he made some big saves today to help us get the win.

I think so too.

Does he deserve some or even allot of the flack he gets? absolutley.

I know Pavelec hasn't played great so far this season, but he unfairly gets most of the blame.

Like last night, saying he should have had the second goal.... he didnt even see it. Pavelec himself said that, Noel said he didnt think Pavs saw in his post game presser.

 

[HannuJ]

What did wellwood bring to the game tonight?

a party pack of Timbits.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I think so too.

Does he deserve some or even allot of the flack he gets? absolutley.

I know Pavelec hasn't played great so far this season, but he unfairly gets most of the blame.

Like last night, saying he should have had the second goal.... he didnt even see it. Pavelec himself said that, Noel said he didnt think Pavs saw in his post game presser.

And yet despite that he was still out of position. He was too deep in his net, he should be out playing his position. He needs to be in proper position and some the goals he allowed would simply hit him rather than allowing these goals even if he doesn't see them. That's how the top goalies do it.

Pavelec has not been terrible beyond belief. But he has not been close to the standard the Jets need him to play at. He is playing like a bottom 5 starter, or a regular backup, he needs to be at least an average starter. He is not at that level.

If he cannot be at least a league average starter, the Jets need to find someone who is. Just because we like the guy and he tries hard does not mean it is acceptable to play at his level in his role.

It's win or GTFO. That's the reality of the NHL. He either steps up or we find someone who does.

 

[SensibleGuy]

ah ****, Versteeg got an assist...

 

[YWGinYYZ]

ah ****, Versteeg got an assist...

I'll take Jets-flesh-wound-inflictor over Jets-killer any day.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Oh yeah of course. It was just that little bit sweeter when I thought he'd been kept off the scoresheet...

 

[TroubaFan1]

And yet despite that he was still out of position. He was too deep in his net, he should be out playing his position. He needs to be in proper position and some the goals he allowed would simply hit him rather than allowing these goals even if he doesn't see them. That's how the top goalies do it.

Pavelec has not been terrible beyond belief. But he has not been close to the standard the Jets need him to play at. He is playing like a bottom 5 starter, or a regular backup, he needs to be at least an average starter. He is not at that level.

If he cannot be at least a league average starter, the Jets need to find someone who is. Just because we like the guy and he tries hard does not mean it is acceptable to play at his level in his role.

It's win or GTFO. That's the reality of the NHL. He either steps up or we find someone who does.

He is already an above average goalie in the NHL. As someone who has played net for 15 years or so and at some decent levels, I didnt think Pavs was out of position at all.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Postma and Redmond playing some serious minutes with Buff and Bogo out.... and they are taking advantage. Redmond on the ice making the game winning play in Overtime setting up Little for the OT goal.

P.S. I think some people on this board have an unhealthy man crush on Machercek ....... I cant bellieve he has been mentioned about 20 times in this 5 page review of the game....... I think if we had a 5 page discussion on St. Johns game tonight we would be hard pressed to make 20 astute statements on him in a game he actually played at the AHL level.

-Just my 2 cents but I propose we dont mention Machercek again (except in the St Johns thread), until the Jets deem him worthy to be recalled. With the information comming from the rock..... I dont think he is even the 1 st call up at this time.

 

[Sweech]

He is already an above average goalie in the NHL. As someone who has played net for 15 years or so and at some decent levels, I didnt think Pavs was out of position at all.

Dude.

Even Pavs said he was too deep in his own net in his postgame comments. You don't have to go so far defending him that it becomes unrealistic. He was out of position, the man (Ondrej) said so himself.

 

[Gump Hasek]

It was nice to see a win for a change. Redmond and Postma had great games for rooks; they each were a bit shaky at times but the good outweighed the bad.

I find the raving about Burmistrov here to be a bit bizarre though. People for some reason gush about his puck skills; he threw the puck away constantly last night. Hockey is a possession game; he is not playing the way his coaches would want. In fact, over the first half of the game last night about the only guarantee was that if the puck was ever on his stick in Florida's zone, then you could pretty much count on Florida gaining possession immediately afterward.

He lost so many draws early in the game last night that the coaches took his faceoffs away.
http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20122013/FC020135.HTM

His faceoff work has been getting progressively worse by the game of late in fact. He clearly isn't strong enough to play in the #2 center spot. Not sure what parts of his game turn some of you on so much but it obviously isn't the fundamentals, apparently.