Meaningful March

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Players don’t give up , like fans do lol. They want to win every night.

No doubt. Just seemed weird for the top headline on TSN to be a quote from a team not in the playoff race talking about big games. You'd think they'd be focusing on teams actually in it, but I guess Florida is and his bro is on the team, so there's that.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Come on, they are meaningful games as long as there is a chance to make the playoffs, everything else is semantics. The games become unmeaningful when there is no chance of being in the playoffs. Dorion was right, I'm not defending him because I'm not a fan of his, but they have been playing meaningful games in March & if they would have won just 4 more games would be tied for a wildcard spot. That's a huge improvement from last yr & a positive catalyst for next season as they should improve a few more positions over the summer.

If games become less meaningful as they tend towards less chance of making the playoffs , ultimately not meaningful when they are mathematically eliminated .. the amount one considers them "meaningful" is certainly subjective .. With a 50/50 chance many if not all would consider them meaningful.. with 1/10 chance less, and with a 1/100 chance even less because of their realistic chance to get in. It can't just go from 100% meaningful to 0 in one game with 10 game left.
So the meaning is subjective therefore it is semantics when someone says meaningful games , the meaning is not clear beyond the idea in the speaker's mind.

 

[aragorn]

If games become less meaningful as they tend towards less chance of making the playoffs , ultimately not meaningful when they are mathematically eliminated .. the amount one considers them "meaningful" is certainly subjective .. With a 50/50 chance many if not all would consider them meaningful.. with 1/10 chance less, and with a 1/100 chance even less because of their realistic chance to get in. It can't just go from 100% meaningful to 0 in one game with 10 game left.
So the meaning is subjective therefore it is semantics when someone says meaningful games , the meaning is not clear beyond the idea in the speaker's mind.

It's not over until it's over or the fat lady sings ...

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It's not over until it's over or the fat lady sings ...

Sounds good. Let's go we don't want the fat lady to sing in March.

 

[Cosmix]

Sounds good. Let's go we don't want the fat lady to sing in March.

I heard enough fat lady's sing in the opera "Norma". Never want to hear that again.

 

[Micklebot]

It's a low bar especially given all the assets given up in order to reach it: DBC trade, Talbot trade, Chyrchrun trade (and giving up an asset to dump Zaitsev to facilitate this), which significantly narrowed the window of contention to the nearer future. That's why I don't believe that's the bar they set internally, but rather they were aiming for the playoffs starting this year. They're just talking about "meaningful games" to save face.

All the moves with the exception of Talbot are/ were potential long term moves, so I don't think that's a fair evaluation. All the 3rd parties out there had us in the 80-95 pts range, I don't think there were any reputable sources predicting playoff and they all knew the moves we made.

The team has to make a 20 pts improvement over last year to have a shot at playoffs, not a guarantee but a shot, that's quite a high bar when you guage it on amount improvement,

The weren't going to set the bar at playoffs because it was an unreasonable expectation, so they set in a notch below. Unfortunately saying we want to just miss the playoffs doesn't quite have the ring to it...

 

[Micklebot]

Some people call it a meaningful game if you are mathematically still in it while others don't call it meaningful unless there is a realistic chance of making it.

I don't think anyone has said that except for those trying to argue against the last week or two of games in March having been meaningful.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't think anyone has said that except for those trying to argue against the last week or two of games in March having been meaningful.

So good to know

 

[Ice-Tray]

Brady still out here framing them as important games lol. Maybe I'm just a pecimist, but what the heck is he talking about? They're beyond cooked.

Ottawa Senators Brady Tkachuk on crucial games against his brother: 'big games for both teams' | TSN

The Ottawa Senators play two of their nine remaining games against the division-rival Florida Panthers. Those games are crucial for the team, as they trail Florida in the standings, but a bigger personal motivation exists for Sens captain Brady Tkachuk - his brother Matthew is the Panthers'...

www.tsn.ca

Yeah, the Captain of the team should have folded his tent….

Alfie and his playoff comment is still one of the worst things he’s said to the media.

 

[CorrectOpinion]

It's been meaningful chatting with you all this season.

 

[Ice-Tray]

For sure. Not saying Brady is doing anything wrong.

My shock was more related to the headline and being top story on TSN than Brady putting on the face for the team like they aren't done yet. They're done, full stop, but I guess TSN is just trying to drum up interest in the game broadcast, so shouldn't have been surprised.

I'm glad some others feel the same in general though. I got talked down to pretty hard here when I questioned the meaning of their "meaningful games" quotes.

You deserved to be talked down no matter how many grumps are with you. Half of theses dudes gave up in November.

Fans bitching about the season being over on that teams fan site should expect push back from people still enjoying keeping the faith until the math says it’s over.

Not sure why there is pride in quitting on your team, when the whole exercise is for entertainment, but why not just piss off about it and let the rest of us enjoy our fun?

 

[Golden_Jet]

No doubt. Just seemed weird for the top headline on TSN to be a quote from a team not in the playoff race talking about big games. You'd think they'd be focusing on teams actually in it, but I guess Florida is and his bro is on the team, so there's that.

It was the headline under the Florida Ottawa game. Not top headline on TSN.
The article is about Brady and Matthew, and the game.

 

[BondraTime]

It's been meaningful chatting with you all this season.

As meaningful as it got the year

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yeah, the Captain of the team should have folded his tent….

Alfie and his playoff comment is still one of the worst things he’s said to the media.

Your words, not mine. Sensationalist headline is probably more like it. Nothing wrong with being realistic imo, but everyone has their preference. Brady wants to finish the season strong regardless, nothing wrong with that, I'm sure he knows full well they're done.

You deserved to be talked down no matter how many grumps are with you. Half of theses dudes gave up in November.

Fans bitching about the season being over on that teams fan site should expect push back from people still enjoying keeping the faith until the math says it’s over.

Not sure why there is pride in quitting on your team, when the whole exercise is for entertainment, but why not just piss off about it and let the rest of us enjoy our fun?

Simmer down now. Nothing egregious was said and you don't get to decide how others behave as fans. If you prefer unchecked optimism, you're free to do so. Agree to disagree that people that think it's over or want to debate the meaning of "meaningful games" aren't allowed to voice that.

I'll have my pom poms ready when it's realistic and I did for a couple games there, but they cooked and it's more interesting to me to consider where they go from here knowing they'll miss, not sitting on the edge of my seat hoping for a miracle. There's being hopeful and then there's just being silly, and that's where we're at imo.

It was the headline under the Florida Ottawa game. Not top headline on TSN.
The article is about Brady and Matthew, and the game.

They've since changed it. It was top story on the main page when I was looking this morning.

 

[DrEasy]

All the moves with the exception of Talbot are/ were potential long term moves, so I don't think that's a fair evaluation. All the 3rd parties out there had us in the 80-95 pts range, I don't think there were any reputable sources predicting playoff and they all knew the moves we made.

The team has to make a 20 pts improvement over last year to have a shot at playoffs, not a guarantee but a shot, that's quite a high bar when you guage it on amount improvement,

The weren't going to set the bar at playoffs because it was an unreasonable expectation, so they set in a notch below. Unfortunately saying we want to just miss the playoffs doesn't quite have the ring to it...

How is DBC a long-term move? He might be gone by the end of next season. Also, we didn't know at the start of the season if Zub would stay with us. One year of Talbot, one year of Zub (thankfully he extended, but we're talking about the situation when the moves for Talbot and DBC were made), 2 years of DBC, 2.5 years of Chychrun don't sound like long-term moves to me.

People outside the org having the team in the 80-95 range is very realistic; but that doesn't mean that's what the team itself was planning to achieve with the moves they made. If anything, it is an indictment of the decisions that were made.

Now mind you with better luck with injuries the plan would have succeeded.

 

[Micklebot]

How is DBC a long-term move? He might be gone by the end of next season. Also, we didn't know at the start of the season if Zub would stay with us. One year of Talbot, one year of Zub (thankfully he extended, but we're talking about the situation when the moves for Talbot and DBC were made), 2 years of DBC, 2.5 years of Chychrun don't sound like long-term moves to me.

People outside the org having the team in the 80-95 range is very realistic; but that doesn't mean that's what the team itself was planning to achieve with the moves they made. If anything, it is an indictment of the decisions that were made.

Now mind you with better luck with injuries the plan would have succeeded.

They all fit the core age group, just because a contract expires doesn't mean acquiring them isn't a long term plan, weird to assume we don't plan on re-signing Chychrun and DeBrincat. I get some arguing why we shouldn't re-sign DeBrincat, but I don't think the team makes that move without planing to keep him in the fold.

as for assuming the team doesn't have realistic expectations when they outright said what their expectations were (and you admit that it is realistic) is once again odd,

Fans of this team have PTSD, always assuming the worst scenario...

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

How any fan can say expectations were met when they got to the point of the seaosn to compete for a playoff spot and they completely collapsed is to me is these fan not wanting to hold the coach and players accountable

before the deadline we were the 10th worst team in the NHL: today we are the 10th worst team in the NHL.

And to be so close after the 2 Detroit games and completely disharea the bed in the ensuing games especially after getting Chychryn - it’s a failure. How anyone sees the Sens play as “met our goals of being a team that collapses in the face of our goals” as a success to me is fans cheering with a losers mentality

Ottawa, today has the 21st best record in the NHL. There are 11 teams, today, with worse records than the Sens. So my math works out to the 12th worst (record) in the NHL…. So little improvement since the trade deadline.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I am not arguing if we have played meaningful games or not, my statement was "the goal of playing meaningful games is a pretty low bar, it was met and made the season more fun"

You have engaged in a debate with me about this, and I have easily proven my point.

You can't say "that is what was meant", its a goal that is subjectively met - making is easy to achieve (as most subjective goals are)

define on the bubble, what do your playoff chances need to be specifically to call yourself a legitimate wild-card contender?

is it 1%? 15%? 50%? 65%?

don’t waste your time, same poster insisted, about two weeks ago, with more than 20 games to go, that the Senators did not need “help” because they ”controlled their own destiny“ … with taking the remaining schedules for ALL the teams deemed in the mix for a WC spot…. And when it was pointed out that the Sens had not, to date, demonstrated at any point of the season that they could go on a Hamburglar type run, which was the minimum required just to challenge for the WC spot…..

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

They were meaningful because A) winning or losing them had a significant impact on whether we'd be reaching the playoffs or not, B) it's was realistically within our grasp to win them, and C) the organization was still trying to win them.

If you stop trying to win them and actively make moves to make winning less likely of course they cease to be meaningful,

It May have been your opinion that those games where “realistically within grasp” but it was not the consensus of most fans, and certainly not the website that run the algorithms to determine “Playoff odds or chances” as the poster pointed out they only came with a 35% Chance of making the playoffs.

Yes, shockingly the organization was still trying to win games, imagine that, pro hockey players and coaches trying to win games. So can’t use that to support your side of the debate.

Never in the history of the NHL have teams/players actively “stop trying to win” games…. Can’t use this either.


the problem is semantics…. Everyone has a different interpretation of “meaningful “ and no amount of spinning will make everyone agree on one defintion.

 

[DrEasy]

They all fit the core age group, just because a contract expires doesn't mean acquiring them isn't a long term plan, weird to assume we don't plan on re-signing Chychrun and DeBrincat. I get some arguing why we shouldn't re-sign DeBrincat, but I don't think the team makes that move without planing to keep him in the fold.

as for assuming the team doesn't have realistic expectations when they outright said what their expectations were (and you admit that it is realistic) is once again odd,

Fans of this team have PTSD, always assuming the worst scenario...

I plan to win Miss Universe, doesn't mean my plan is going to work out. We'll see if re-signing DBC is going to happen or if it's even a good idea. In the meantime, I'm looking at the RFA and FA situation of players at the beginning of the season (Talbot UFA-to-be, Zub UFA-to-be, DBC RFA-to-be) and that doesn't sound like long-term planning to me.

As for your second paragraph: the team may have said "meaningful March", but the moves screamed "playoffs" to me; only way those moves made sense. Were playoffs realistic? IMO yes, and this is why I am disappointed at the outcome of the season. My supposed PTSD seems to have made me a more optimistic fan than you then!

All this to say, the bar of "meaningful March" is not only too low, but it's not consistent with the moves they made.

 

[Sun God Nika]

for me meaningful is subject.

I stopped looking at games as meaningful after we lost to Calgary. Then started believing again thought New Jersey was a meaningful game. I guess if the sens win 3 of 3 and the pens lose 2 of the next 3 ill start looking at the games as meaningful again.

 

[Micklebot]

It May have been your opinion that those games where “realistically within grasp” but it was not the consensus of most fans, and certainly not the website that run the algorithms to determine “Playoff odds or chances” as the poster pointed out they only came with a 35% Chance of making the playoffs

They were one goal games in the third period, and we were pushing really well generating chances, Colorado game winning goal should never have happened if not for a blown call, Toronto went 9 rounds into the shootout, NJ was a tie game starting the third, all games that could have gone either way,

Yes, shockingly the organization was still trying to win games, imagine that, pro hockey players and coaches trying to win games. So can’t use that to support your side of the debate.

Abd Detroit wasn't, that was the point. One team decided to cut their loses, so the games ceased to

Never in the history of the NHL have teams/players actively “stop trying to win” games…. Can’t use this either.

Never said players stop trying to win, but GM's actively reduce their chances of winning every year at the deadline but trading off key players,

the problem is semantics…. Everyone has a different interpretation of “meaningful “ and no amount of spinning will make everyone agree on one defintion.

Well clearly nobody is agreeing here, at least we can agree on that.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Your words, not mine. Sensationalist headline is probably more like it. Nothing wrong with being realistic imo, but everyone has their preference. Brady wants to finish the season strong regardless, nothing wrong with that, I'm sure he knows full well they're done.

Simmer down now. Nothing egregious was said and you don't get to decide how others behave as fans. If you prefer unchecked optimism, you're free to do so. Agree to disagree that people that think it's over or want to debate the meaning of "meaningful games" aren't allowed to voice that.

I'll have my pom poms ready when it's realistic and I did for a couple games there, but they cooked and it's more interesting to me to consider where they go from here knowing they'll miss, not sitting on the edge of my seat hoping for a miracle. There's being hopeful and then there's just being silly, and that's where we're at imo.

They've since changed it. It was top story on the main page when I was looking this morning.

Lol, Blah blah blah my rights, you also have the right to deal with responses to your posts, quit moaning about it.

Its this simple, you and others have given up on the season for your reasons, good for you, I don’t have a problem with your personal decisions, and I don’t care about your reasonings or your pompoMs.

What is annoying is you guys continuing to go on about it and mock those who still want to watch and enjoy the ride? It’s just shitty selfish behaviour to try and ruin things for others.

As for the headline, get a grip, it’s always a hyped brother against brother game, and the Captain is still trying to win games and said so in the media so it makes a nice headline.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Lol, Blah blah blah my rights, you also have the right to deal with responses to your posts, quit moaning about it.

Its this simple, you and others have given up on the season for your reasons, good for you, I don’t have a problem with your personal decisions, and I don’t care about your reasonings or your pompoMs.

What is annoying is you guys continuing to go on about it and mock those who still want to watch and enjoy the ride? It’s just shitty selfish behaviour to try and ruin things for others.

As for the headline, get a grip, it’s always a hyped brother against brother game, and the Captain is still trying to win games and said so in the media so it makes a nice headline.

Dude, nobody is mocking anyone, there has been ongoing debate about what qualifies as meaningful games and nobody is mocking someone if they say they don't think they have been and that their chances to make it are too far fetched to consider it that or have hope at this point, its just an opinion given by numerous people. If anything there's been mocking the other direction to those that argue they arent. Maybe there's a lot of what youre saying in other threads Im not in or something, but Im not seeing that.

Yes, I thought the top story on tsn this morning appearing to be about the Sens still being in the playoff picture a bit silly, but I also clarified that it was also about his brother and that the Panthers still have a shot and that Brady is likely just rallying the troops to try to finish strong.

You are more than welcome to keep hoping. Its not like im cheering for them to lose, finishing strong could be good for them, I just don't think they have a chance and have moved on. What happens this summer and who the new owner is all that is interesting to me in Sens land now. I also see a grey area in the definition of meaningful games and whether or not what weve seen applies. I don't see whats wrong with that.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Dude, nobody is mocking anyone, there has been ongoing debate about what qualifies as meaningful games and nobody is mocking someone if they say they don't think they have been and that their chances to make it are too far fetched to consider it that or have hope at this point, its just an opinion given by numerous people. If anything there's been mocking the other direction to those that argue they arent. Maybe there's a lot of what youre saying in other threads Im not in or something, but Im not seeing that.

Yes, I thought the top story on tsn this morning appearing to be about the Sens still being in the playoff picture a bit silly, but I also clarified that it was also about his brother and that the Panthers still have a shot and that Brady is likely just rallying the troops to try to finish strong.

You are more than welcome to keep hoping. Its not like im cheering for them to lose, finishing strong could be good for them, I just don't think they have a chance and have moved on. What happens this summer and who the new owner is all that is interesting to me in Sens land now. I also see a grey area in the definition of meaningful games and whether or not what weve seen applies. I don't see whats wrong with that.

I explained that it was lame and why, this place is insufferable for fans who actually like the team and are trying to enjoy the stretch.

Anyways, I generally enjoy your posts, but this quitter crap that we’ve had to listen to since November, is just lame.

I hope we get some new fans in here to go with ownership and staff.