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Confirmed with Link: McDonagh + Miller to Tampa Bay for Namestnikov + Howden + Hajek + 2018 1st + conditional 2019 1st

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Tawnos said:
You know, unless their names are Filip Chytil, Sean Day, Pavel Buchnevich, Anthony Duclair, Dylan McIlrath, or Chris Kreider.
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It's amazing that some people forget to acknowledge how we took a guy projected to be picked around 35-45 at 21. If he's not having the year he's having, everyone would be whining that we passed on Tolvanen.
 
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Beacon said:
There are high risk, high reward guys that our management avoids like the plague. I just listed 2 of them (Martin Kaut and Vitaly Kravtsov) who will be available late in this year's first round. Watch us pick a smart, all-around player instead.
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Not factual. So many boom bust choices in recent era I’m surprised you’d make this claim. The Rangers likely would want at least one safe option but even that is not a guarantee since they did really well with both picks last year.
 
Tawnos said:
You know, unless their names are Filip Chytil, Sean Day, Pavel Buchnevich, Anthony Duclair, Dylan McIlrath, or Chris Kreider.
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Day is massively overhyped here. There is nothing high-end about him except he was only watched by the folks here when he was in Traverse against total garbage players who were hoping to do enough to earn an ECHL contract. One of the better Traverse performers was Nick Betz, who has - count them - 2 points for the whole season... in the ECHL... and he has actually gotten cut by Greenville and out of hockey now. A good Traverse player can't hack it in the ECHL. Jimmy Vesey put in "the most dominant performance at Traverse I've ever seen" according to either Gorts or Gordie, I don't remember which.

Chytil was a nice surprise because I guess we had two firsts. But the original selection, Lias, was a very safe one. Buchnevich and Duclair is actually part of the plan. The Rangers said that they want to use the first round on safe guys and then later rounds on guys like Butcher, Duke, Christian Thomas, Michael St. Croix.

Kreider and McIlrath were 8-9 years ago. Kreider also had a pretty good floor given his amazing tools. If you're huge and can skate like an Olympian, you have a very high chance of making the NHL.

Gorton said in an interview that they always want to take a safe guy with their best draft pick to make sure they get a rookie a year in the future because they view that as absolutely crucial. The problem with that is missing out on risky guys who later turn into beasts.
 
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Beacon said:
Day is massively overhyped here. There is nothing high-end about him except he was only watched by the folks here when he was in Traverse against total garbage players who were hoping to do enough to earn an ECHL contract. One of the better Traverse performers was Nick Betz, who has - count them - 2 points for the whole season... in the ECHL... and he has actually gotten cut by Greenville and out of hockey now. A good Traverse player can't hack it in the ECHL. Jimmy Vesey put in "the most dominant performance at Traverse I've ever seen" according to either Gorts or Gordie, I don't remember which.

Chytil was a nice surprise because I guess we had two firsts. But the original selection, Lias, was a very safe one. Buchnevich and Duclair is actually part of the plan. The Rangers said that they want to use the first round on safe guys and then later rounds on guys like Butcher, Duke, Christian Thomas, Michael St. Croix.

Kreider and McIlrath were 8-9 years ago. Kreider also had a pretty good floor given his amazing tools. If you're huge and can skate like an Olympian, you have a very high chance of making the NHL.

Gorton said in an interview that they always want to take a safe guy with their best draft pick to make sure they get a rookie a year in the future because they view that as absolutely crucial. The problem with that is missing out on risky guys who later turn into beasts.
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Hang on. You’re telling us that management wants to take a safe player with their best pick and more risky picks with other picks after just telling us that they’re going to avoid making risky picks with their late first round selections because that’s what they do?

I mean... you are aware now that you just contradicted yourself, right?
 
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nyrleetch said:
Outside of Girardi, I really don't have any desire to watch those guys get the Cup. Cally can get lost.
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I'm not on board the Callahan hate. He played his dick off every night for this franchise from the day he made his debut and scored 2 goals against Boston.

And over that time period he watched the Rangers hand out stupid amounts of money to players like Gomez, Redden, Richards etc. that did nothing in a Rangers jersey to deserve that money.

Then when it comes time for him to get his, that's when the Rangers decide to draw the line in the sand and they're done handing out big money contracts?

That said we dodged a huge bullet there, but Callahan deserved that money just as much as Redden or Staal or anyone else we doled millions of dollars out to.
 
I think in the right scenario, for a guy they like, they’ll roll the dice.

I think that becomes a bit easier with more picks and I suspect we’ll see some risks in the coming years.
 
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Tawnos said:
Hang on. You’re telling us that management wants to take a safe player with their best pick and more risky picks with other picks after just telling us that they’re going to avoid making risky picks with their late first round selections because that’s what they do?

I mean... you are aware now that you just contradicted yourself, right?
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I misspoke there. I didn't mean they don't take them ever, I meant they don't like to use their best picks on boom/bust guys. The problem with that strategy is that the odds are not the same. You take a boom/bust guy at #12, and he has a 50-50 chance to become a star or a bust (adjusted for the quality of the draft, exactly how boom and how bust, etc, but you know what I mean). You take a boom/bust guy at #123, what are his odds of becoming a first liner? 1%?
 
Beacon said:
Day is massively overhyped here. There is nothing high-end about him except he was only watched by the folks here when he was in Traverse against total garbage players who were hoping to do enough to earn an ECHL contract. One of the better Traverse performers was Nick Betz, who has - count them - 2 points for the whole season... in the ECHL... and he has actually gotten cut by Greenville and out of hockey now. A good Traverse player can't hack it in the ECHL. Jimmy Vesey put in "the most dominant performance at Traverse I've ever seen" according to either Gorts or Gordie, I don't remember which.

Chytil was a nice surprise because I guess we had two firsts. But the original selection, Lias, was a very safe one. Buchnevich and Duclair is actually part of the plan. The Rangers said that they want to use the first round on safe guys and then later rounds on guys like Butcher, Duke, Christian Thomas, Michael St. Croix.

Kreider and McIlrath were 8-9 years ago. Kreider also had a pretty good floor given his amazing tools. If you're huge and can skate like an Olympian, you have a very high chance of making the NHL.

Gorton said in an interview that they always want to take a safe guy with their best draft pick to make sure they get a rookie a year in the future because they view that as absolutely crucial. The problem with that is missing out on risky guys who later turn into beasts.
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Or busts.
 
Tawnos said:
Only conference finalists get put in the back of the draft order. All 12 teams going out in the first two rounds are put in order of their regular season finish. So if the Bolts end up with the Presidents Trophy and don’t make the ECF, they’ll pick at 27 whether they lost in the 1st or 2nd.

Really, that pick this year could be anywhere from 25 to 31. I don’t see it being any higher than that. The Bolts would have to basically collapse over the next 20 games.
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Exactly.
 
PuckLuck3043 said:
Or busts.
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That's fine.

In 1996, we had 3 boom/bust offensive dynamos: Christian Dube, Bryan Swanson and Marc Savard, ranked in that order. We all knew it is likely only one will make it, and we'd have to be very lucky for two of three to make it. And we were right: only Savard (the worst prospect of the three of them) made it. Somewhere around there, give or take a few years, we had Sundstrom, Malhotra and Dominic Moore. They were smart, all-around low-risk players. All of them made it. I think all of us would take Savard, who had over ppg in 5 seasons and was a top shelf 1C in four more seasons (9 seasons total as a first liner) than to take all 3 of those safe, all-around guys.

I am perfectly ok missing 2/3 of the time if the 1 time we hit, we get a first liner. We'll figure out some way to get Malhotra if we already have Savard.
 
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Beacon said:
That's fine.

In 1996, we had 3 boom/bust offensive dynamos: Christian Dube, Bryan Swanson and Marc Savard, ranked in that order. We all knew it is likely only one will make it, and we'd have to be very lucky for two of three to make it. And we were right: only Savard (the worst prospect of the three of them) made it. Somewhere around there, give or take a few years, we had Sundstrom, Malhotra and Dominic Moore. They were smart, all-around low-risk players. All of them made it. I think all of us would take Savard, who had over ppg in 5 seasons and was a top shelf 1C in four more seasons (9 seasons total as a first liner) than to take all 3 of those safe, all-around guys.

I am perfectly ok missing 2/3 of the time if the 1 time we hit, we get a first liner. We'll figure out some way to get Malhotra if we already have Savard.
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With 7 picks in the first 3 rounds I'm sure we will taking some risks.
 
Beacon said:
I misspoke there. I didn't mean they don't take them ever, I meant they don't like to use their best picks on boom/bust guys. The problem with that strategy is that the odds are not the same. You take a boom/bust guy at #12, and he has a 50-50 chance to become a star or a bust (adjusted for the quality of the draft, exactly how boom and how bust, etc, but you know what I mean). You take a boom/bust guy at #123, what are his odds of becoming a first liner? 1%?
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I guess I'm not sure there's much of history go off of when it comes to the first round. I'm struggling to find "boom/bust" players that were obvious examples..

I could probably argue they went with more risk or boom/bust when drafting guys like Duclair, McIlrath, and Sanguinetti in the post 2004 era. But I can't say there are many glaring instances where I feel they went out of their way to avoid said boom/bust type pick. If anything, I'd probably contend that the timing and their interest in the player wasn't there in most scenarios.

In many cases, perhaps they felt there wasn't much boom to go with the probability of bust.
 
Trading away McDonagh hit me on a delay last night. The NY media is mellow but the trade felt rushed and was rushed. Trade value aside, it's sad to see your captain and best skater in the last 4 years moved almost too willingly by management. Despite the clown show in Ottawa, Karlsson was still held onto because the offers weren't good enough even if there are politics and PR involved in Ottawa. Yet, it felt like management was set on trading McDonagh and just took the best offer available at 2:59 PM. It feels like a cop out that the coach who is to blame for the sinking ship still has his job while McDonagh and Miller are shipped off for an underwhelming return. Management and the fans know they weren't the problem but they aren't going to be a part of the solution. On the surface though, it's just distateful to see Vigneault keep his job along with his clown associate coach while the captain gets rushed out of town.

It may be sentimental but it's a business of people and lots of them good people. The speed with which Gorton is dismantling the current core is really extreme. They're looking for prospects more so than picks in order to accelerate the rebuild because it's too big of a business to neglect even in the name of hockey. I guess that's why they sent out that letter to the fans. This is all par for course but boy, it's tough to see players go. I'm guessing the summer will bring even more departures.
 
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Crease said:
Just wanted to say it's nice having you around more again.
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Thank you.

I'm trying. I enjoy it.

The kids are a little older now, life and my work projects afford me the time, and I've kind of missed it.

Right before Hockey's Future closed the site, I was toying with the idea of doing a series for them and following-up with some of the old/former prospects I used to cover. The timing didn't work out, but I even went so far as to reach out to some of them and many had an interest. Unfortunately, the timing didn't work out.
 
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Tob said:
So a coach who is known for being unable to motivate his team and communicate with his players is then cursed onto the captain for not having a confrontational personality.

Miller deemed uncoachable in one capacity or another which lead to the trade.

Hmm.......

In any case, this is a subtle hit piece by Larry on Vigneault.
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Yes it is and I just don't see any way the clown is still here next year. I like Gorton but that would be a major fail if AV is still here.
 
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