Confirmed with Link: McDonagh + Miller to Tampa Bay for Namestnikov + Howden + Hajek + 2018 1st + conditional 2019 1st

[Amazing Kreiderman]

We didn’t. We got a 3c/w who is an RFA; a lower tier prospect a reach to make the NHL; and a back of the 1st rd pick.

Better than nothing but not anything close to one of the talented young players Boston has a plethora of.

We got a roster player, a prospect, a 1st round pick, a depth player at 50% and a 7th. For a player that is a pending UFA. How is that not a good return?

"Oh no! Nash is awful. What a waste of a roster spot."

"We got nothing in return for Nash. Gorton should have done better"

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

We got a roster player, a prospect, a 1st round pick, a depth player at 50% and a 7th. For a player that is a pending UFA. How is that not a good return?

"Oh no! Nash is awful. What a waste of a roster spot."

"We got nothing in return for Nash. Gorton should have done better"

I don't get what exactly people use to determine what we SHOULD be getting, what makes a prospect worth getting, etc. I don't think most people have any actual reasons (other than emotion) for what they say

 

[mrhockey193195]

Can't wait to see how McD and Girardi do as a pair again.

Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, but 1) away from AV, 2) on a f***ing stacked team, 3) as the second pair, those two will be absolutely fantastic together. Mark my words.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, obviously his point totals are inflated, but it wasn't like Stamkos and Kucherov were banking pucks in off his head.

I don’t know why this visual just made me burst out laughing on the train.

 

[nyr2k2]

We didn’t. We got a 3c/w who is an RFA; a lower tier prospect a reach to make the NHL; and a back of the 1st rd pick.

Better than nothing but not anything close to one of the talented young players Boston has a plethora of.

Roster player, solid prospect, first, seventh. For a rental who is struggling to match his age with points. Praise for this deal has been near universal for our side. But sure, crap on it.

 

[Jim Ramsay]

Its easy to say now because he isnt on the team any more, but in my viewings McD is not the player he was a few years ago.

Granted he hasnt had a great partner, and AVs system is a disaster, but I feel like his shot is completely gone, he seems to fumble the puck more than he ever has and has not been as smart defending around the crease.

As fans I think we are hung up that we didnt get a return on what our hearts tell us is 2012-2015 mcd, but honestly he hasnt been that dynamic guy the past few seasons. I think the return for for the current mcd is more than fair..

Only time will tell as the prospects and picks develop.

 

[Edge]

Lesser players get moved for more? Unless you’re talking about young players with a ton of control, this is news to me.

Also McDonagh has a 10 team no trade list so the pool of teams is 20, not 30. When you factor in the teams who would be on that list who don’t have the need or assets, that pool becomes even smaller.

Also they got 2 picks back for him, not 1.

That’s an excellent point I had failed to remember - the pool being 20 teams.

The number of teams floated as having made offers for McD was last reported as around 6 or 7. So possibly 1/3 of the teams that could land McD made offers.

 

[skunk123454321]

A few stray thoughts:

- I think the trade makes more sense when you compare it to the Yandle (1st + 2nd + Duclair + Moore w 50% retained on Yandle) or Shattenkirk (1st + a conditional 2nd that ended up being nothing + Zach Sanford, who was a low B prospect at best) trades. Then you can think about it as trading McDonagh for a 1st, Howden, and Hajek (which seems like a better package than Yandle or Shattenkirk got, especially considering that NYR isn't retaining on McDonagh) and Miller for Namestnikov + a conditional 1st (which seems fair if not a win for us).

- I'm disappointed NYR wasn't able to add a potentially elite player, like Sergachev or Marner, but Gorton got offers from 6+ teams and waited until the absolute last minute to do the deal, so it seems like this was the best possible deal available as our front office saw it.

- A lot of the players the Rangers have drafted or traded for (Andersson, Howden, Hajek, Rykov, Lindgren) seem to be guys who are not flashy players, but do subtle things well, are strong defensively, have high character, and are often very productive. I think the success of our rebuild will depend in large part on how good our front office's scouting judgment was in targeting players who fit that profile vs flashier / higher skilled prospects.

- I think it's interesting that both Howden and Hajek are WHL players. If I remember correctly, we fired our WHL scout after a few busted draft picks (McIlrath, Gropp) and haven't used a high pick on a WHL player since then. So it seems to me like much of the success of this trade rests on the judgment of a scout who doesn't have much of a track record with us.

Anyone who thought you were getting Sergachev or Marner we're completely out to lunch... just like everyone told you

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That’s an excellent point I had failed to remember - the pool being 20 teams.

The number of teams floated as having made offers for McD was last reported as around 6 or 7. So possibly 1/3 of the teams that could land McD made offers.

And out of those 7, we could argue 2 or 3 don't have a 1st rounder before negotiations start, removing them from the equation as well. That leaves 4 teams and you have to hope all 4 GMs are willing to pay what Gorton wants. And then Gorton can pick the best package offered.

 

[Thirty One]

We didn’t. We got a 3c/w who is an RFA; a lower tier prospect a reach to make the NHL; and a back of the 1st rd pick.

Better than nothing but not anything close to one of the talented young players Boston has a plethora of.

What is this... I don't even....

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm reading this thread and one thing that's really bothering me is how people can't figure out how to maximize our assets. I've seen these two scenarios:

1) We want the Lightning to win it next year because we don't want to get the 31st pick this year.

Or even crazier:

2) We want the Lightning NOT to win the cup so that we don't get the 31st this year.

What am I missing? My understanding is that if we win this year or next year we get next year's pick. So if they win this year they drop from a low pick anyway since they're a top NHL team to #31. Then next year EVERY pick is in play in theory. Imagine if they go through rash of injuries finish 10th and win the lottery. I don't understand why you guys would rather win next year and guarantee a 31st pick with an already low pick this year. Am I missing something or is everyone over-complicating this? (Not everyone, someone suggested this but seemingly was ignored).

 

[Jim Ramsay]

Im intrigued with how this exchange of miller and namestnikov plays out.
I was disappointed because i feel like there is more to see from JT...but at the same time, ive also been saying this for years already.

I Have no idea ofcourse but i feel like there are some behind the scene issues with jts attitude and commitment...ofcourse this is speculation on my part, but I feel like mgmt knew they werent gonna go forward with him and decided to flip him for namestnikov , who seems like he is similar in the fact that hes a good player, but you think there is more there.

I guess Gorton was ready to gamble on Names attaining that next level before JTM

 

[JT Kreider]

I'm reading this thread and one thing that's really bothering me is how people can't figure out how to maximize our assets. I've seen these two scenarios:

1) We want the Lightning to win it next year because we don't want to get the 31st pick this year.

Or even crazier:

2) We want the Lightning NOT to win the cup so that we don't get the 31st this year.

What am I missing? My understanding is that if we win this year or next year we get next year's pick. So if they win this year they drop from a low pick anyway since they're a top NHL team to #31. Then next year EVERY pick is in play in theory. Imagine if they go through rash of injuries finish 10th and win the lottery. I don't understand why you guys would rather win next year and guarantee a 31st pick with an already low pick this year. Am I missing something or is everyone over-complicating this? (Not everyone, someone suggested this but seemingly was ignored).

We want them to win the Cup this year since we are already guaranteed this year's first.

Then we want them to have an injury riddled wreck of a season so that 2019 first becomes a primo lottery pick.

Seems pretty simple to me

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

This is looking fair in hindsight... Miller is literally a conditional 1st, late 2nd, Dubinsky... + a no. 1D for a top-six, potential 1C, similar prospect who looks bound to hit full stride and a to-4 D who some call a 2-3?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

We want them to win the Cup this year since we are already guaranteed this year's first.

Then we want them to have an injury riddled wreck of a season so that 2019 first becomes a primo lottery pick.

Seems pretty simple to me

Like 3/4 of the people couldn't figure that out. The Lightning aren't falling this year below like 25, next year is a different story. Anyway, I'd root for them either way if for nothing else than to some the Penguins.

 

[Beacon]

seems to be a logjam at center and LW. Not many RW guys...

Of all the positions, RWs are easiest to find. Smart way to build is to focus on other positions.

 

[kramer987]

We want them to win the Cup this year since we are already guaranteed this year's first.

Then we want them to have an injury riddled wreck of a season so that 2019 first becomes a primo lottery pick.

Seems pretty simple to me

if they win the cup this year, next year's TB first is ours.
if they win the cup next year, next year's TB first is ours.
if they don't win the cup this year or next year and finish as a cup runner up or dead last, next years TB SECOND is ours.

regardless of the above scenarios, this year's TB first is already ours.

there is no scenario here where TB gives us a primo lottery pick in 2019.

edit: i see where my error is. if they win the cup this year and then tank next year, their first round pick next year will be a primo lottery pick that we are already entitled to because of this year's cup win. IN OTHER WORDS, the BEST CASE SCENARIO is a TB cup win this year regardless of what happens next year. so in yet other words, i will be rooting for TB to win it all this year.

 

[Beacon]

I may be in the minority but I don't see next year as a total disaster. We still have some quality players, young guys getting playing time like ADA, Pionk, Gilmour, and will add Chytil and Andersson next year as well.

Young =\= good. If ADA, Pionk and Gilmour are all in the top-6 (meaning at least one of them is in the top-4), this team is a disaster. Who says that Chytil transitions well IMMEDIATELY? Kreider at 21.5 needed to go back and forth to the AHL after a terrific playoff run for the Rangers. Who says Chytil at barely 19 is so much better than Kreider at 21.5?

Does Pionk replace McDonagh equally well?
Does Chytil replace Zuccarello, likely to be traded?
Does Cousin Vinni replace Grabner?
Does Lias replace Nash?

There's no way in hell our youth will be as good as the vets who were or will be sent away.

 

[will1066]

Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, but 1) away from AV, 2) on a ****ing stacked team, 3) as the second pair, those two will be absolutely fantastic together. Mark my words.

It was a neutral statement, if you can believe that.

I want to believe that they will be a good pair in a different system and as a second pair that does go against the opponent's best line--like you said. But given what Girardi is, we could also be seeing the same old thing we saw here: Girardi being the weak link and dragging McD with him.

So I'm actually honestly curious to see how they fare.

 

[kramer987]

Young =\= good. If ADA, Pionk and Gilmour are all in the top-6 (meaning at least one of them is in the top-4), this team is a disaster. Who says that Chytil transitions well IMMEDIATELY? Kreider at 21.5 needed to go back and forth to the AHL after a terrific playoff run for the Rangers. Who says Chytil at barely 19 is so much better than Kreider at 21.5?

Does Pionk replace McDonagh equally well?
Does Chytil replace Zuccarello, likely to be traded?
Does Cousin Vinni replace Grabner?
Does Lias replace Nash?

There's no way in hell our youth will be as good as the vets who were or will be sent away.

but at least you have assets that don't command high salaries to play around with. keeping around guys due large reup salaries isn't going to get you very far... particularly when you are no longer competitive and those guys are only getting older.

 

[Edge]

I'm reading this thread and one thing that's really bothering me is how people can't figure out how to maximize our assets. I've seen these two scenarios:

1) We want the Lightning to win it next year because we don't want to get the 31st pick this year.

Or even crazier:

2) We want the Lightning NOT to win the cup so that we don't get the 31st this year.

What am I missing? My understanding is that if we win this year or next year we get next year's pick. So if they win this year they drop from a low pick anyway since they're a top NHL team to #31. Then next year EVERY pick is in play in theory. Imagine if they go through rash of injuries finish 10th and win the lottery. I don't understand why you guys would rather win next year and guarantee a 31st pick with an already low pick this year. Am I missing something or is everyone over-complicating this? (Not everyone, someone suggested this but seemingly was ignored).

Your assessment is correct.

That’s why I am rooting for The Bolts this spring. It guarantees a first rounder for us and then I can actively root against them next season to get a higher pick.

 

[Beacon]

If we pick 5-10 who should we target? Assuming the big 3 + Adam Boqvist is gone?

Dobson seems the right way to go.

 

[nyr2k2]

Guys, the picks. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

There's one first round pick that is just a plain old first round pick in the upcoming 2018 draft.

There is a 2019 second round pick that becomes a first round pick if the Lightning win either this year or next.

So, if you want ideal picks, you want the Lightning to go out early this year, making the 2018 pick better. Then win the Cup next season, turning the 2019 pick from a pick in the second into the 31st pick of round one.

 

[Alluckks]

I'm reading this thread and one thing that's really bothering me is how people can't figure out how to maximize our assets. I've seen these two scenarios:

1) We want the Lightning to win it next year because we don't want to get the 31st pick this year.

Or even crazier:

2) We want the Lightning NOT to win the cup so that we don't get the 31st this year.

What am I missing? My understanding is that if we win this year or next year we get next year's pick. So if they win this year they drop from a low pick anyway since they're a top NHL team to #31. Then next year EVERY pick is in play in theory. Imagine if they go through rash of injuries finish 10th and win the lottery. I don't understand why you guys would rather win next year and guarantee a 31st pick with an already low pick this year. Am I missing something or is everyone over-complicating this? (Not everyone, someone suggested this but seemingly was ignored).

Well, let's go with realism and say that Lightning do not bottom out next year and will be a playoff team. If we knew that they will not miss the playoff next year, then we would want them to bottom out this year. Lose in the 1st round. That gives us the 20th-23rd overall pick (assuming they win their division) for this year. Now, next year, still under the assumption they will make the playoffs, we either want them to win the cup (31st pick) or go out in the 1st round (47th-54th pick, based on whether or not they won their division). Them losing in the cup finals would give us the 61st pick.

A betting man would say they are making the playoffs next year. A betting man would also take the field over a single team, almost regardless of the team.

So I am vying for 1st round exist this year, and 1st round exit next year - because I see them as likely to not bottom out and miss the playoffs next year, but I also see it as less then 50% likely that they win the cup in either year.

But yes, the hypothetical where they win it all this year and then they all get kicked out of the league for doping next year and get the 1st overall next year is the best case scenario.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Who is our 1C? Having a ton of future second, third and fourth liners is nice, but you're nowhere near the best without a 1C.

All three of Chytil, Andersson, and Howden are where we want them to be right now, which is solidly on track to being 2Cs. Will one of them continue to progress and advance to another level? I think Chytil has a real shot. But obviously I don't need to tell you that only time will tell for sure. Barring that, one of the next two drafts.

This year's draft, what those three show when they come into camp next year, and next year's draft will tell an important tale...