Confirmed with Link: McDonagh + Miller to Tampa Bay for Namestnikov + Howden + Hajek + 2018 1st + conditional 2019 1st

[AK 27]

Since we're talking about defensemen... I have to say that overall I've been pretty unimpressed by Skjei this season. I know that a lot has to do with your defensive partner, the forwards helping out, etc. but he seems to make a LOT of mistakes. Then he makes an end-to-end rush that ends up with him behind the opponent's net. I dunno, I just think he is overvalued at this point. I know he's young but he reminds me of Del Zotto sometimes. I don't see him as any kind of untouchable commodity the way some do.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

One thing JT doesn't lack is skill. I agree completely. He is also deceptively strong on his skates. I've seen many people take runs at him over the years and end up on their back. You have to assume there is a lot more to this story in regards to his attitude issues than we all currently know. If you look at his skill set and his age alone he is one of the guys you would have to build around. Who knows if we'll ever find out the whole story. The fact that we offered him to Tampa says something.

I agree there is more than meets the eye here with Miller. I remember consistent chatter that Miller needed to mature his first couple of years, but that subsided the last couple of years. Who knows, maybe the issues remained and were less public. Always easier to say a 21 year old needs to mature vs. a 25 year old.

But it is a weird situation. Miller and Namestikov are basically a wash, with perhaps a slight nod to Miller overall because he is stronger and more versatile - basically, being able to add a little power forward element to his game when fully engaged. The problem, this season especially, is he's rarely been engaged and a consistent contributor.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Hajek an Howden should be AHL eligible next year, right?

Yes, I think they are.

 

[haveandare]

Yes, I think they are.

Awesome. I'm horrible at navigating that sort of stuff with prospects, it's all super confusing to me.

 

[AK 27]

I agree there is more than meets the eye here with Miller. I remember consistent chatter that Miller needed to mature his first couple of years, but that subsided the last couple of years. Who knows, maybe the issues remained and were less public. Always easier to say a 21 year old needs to mature vs. a 25 year old.

But it is a weird situation. Miller and Namestikov are basically a wash, with perhaps a slight nod to Miller overall because he is stronger and more versatile - basically, being able to add a little power forward element to his game when fully engaged. The problem, this season especially, is he's rarely been engaged and a consistent contributor.

I think the biggest problem with Miller was that the Rangers expected more than he could give. They were looking for him to be a leader on and off the ice and I don't think he could foot that bill. I think he got frustrated and discouraged. A change of scenery will probably be just what the doctor ordered. I expect good (not great) things from him in Tampa Bay.

 

[haveandare]

will someone just please agree or disagree that McDo is not the captain-type. i can't help but feel alone in this regard

Depends imo who the coach and teammates are. I can see him being a good captain, but I don't think he was a very good captain here mostly because the coach was hands off with the room and the whole team wasn't very fiery to a man. I think he'd be a good captain under someone like Torts where the coach runs the room and the captain mostly sets a good example.

 

[Richard Banger]

Wolf Pack is going to be stacked AF next year.

 

[JayMan82]

I think the biggest problem with Miller was that the Rangers expected more than he could give. They were looking for him to be a leader on and off the ice and I don't think he could foot that bill. I think he got frustrated and discouraged. A change of scenery will probably be just what the doctor ordered. I expect good (not great) things from him in Tampa Bay.

Not so sure about that. He tries to do too much on the ice, as someone on the boards put it 'he tries to play junior hockey in the NHL'. JT experiments with high risk, no reward plays, then he doesn't compete on both sides of the rink. He'll look for an open ice hit, which causes an odd man rush the other way for a goal. He's got all the tools, but barely a toolbox.

In comparison, a player like Kreider simplified his game and you can see the team benefit from him more because of it.

 

[nyr2k2]

I don't think it is a factual/non-factual basis situation. Its a negotiation. Yzerman can say he's not giving up Sergachyov or Point, but he's not the only person in the deal. Gorton has players that Yzerman wants to acquire. A starting position for a negotiation isn't always the ending position. Do you really think teams don't ever end up giving up more than the maximum they initially said? Gorton starts extremely high in the ask, Yzerman starts extremely low in what they are willing to give up, and somewhere between the top and bottom is where the trade ends up being. But that also doesn't mean it ends up in the middle. That is part of the negotiation. Who gives in to the others trade demands first? Yzerman is considered very stingy in his trade dealings.

One thing I did read, I think it was from a Custance article was that the price Gorton quoted to another team was lower than what Tampa eventually paid, so while I wouldn't begin to suggest it was an awful trade, I think Gorton probably did ask for more than what he got, and I think he'd be well within his rights to do that. The ability to read the market, wait out your fellow GM's and get maximum value is a key part of the job. I think Gorton did well in the first three trades, but I wouldn't say this one was a good trade.

I think this was a reasonable trade. I have no issue with someone who characterizes it as a poor trade; I disagree, but you know, opinions and all. I just take issue with posters that make declarations like, "Gorton could have gotten Player X," or, "If Gorton had done XYZ we could have held onto ABC." Stuff like that. No one KNOWS that. No one KNOWS what could have been gotten.

Part of my job currently, and over the past 12 years, has been either participating in or leading negotiations on labor contracts (and other miscellaneous contracts). So yes, I am very, very familiar with how deals work, how initial positions move, and so forth. For six years, it was literally all I did. Which is why the stuff I elaborated on above infuriates me. "We could have had X!" PROBABLY NOT! I go into a negotiation with a list of areas where I'll concede, and by what degree. I also go into negotiations knowing what I absolutely will not give in on. For example, I'll start with an offer of a 2% raise for bargaining unit employees, and I know I'm going to come off that. Financial conditions, similar contracts that have been signed recently, the health of the municipality/company/whatever, I know I'm gonna have to go up to at least 3.5%. I can live with that--it's in the budget. Now, if the other side offers some unexpected concessions looking to drive that number higher? I can probably go to 4%. Maybe, MAYBE 4.25%. If they want more than that? NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN. It's not in my budget, there is literally no way I can go that high, and I went into these negotiations knowing that realistically anything more than 4% was where I walked out the door. Barring some sort of completely unrealistic scenario ("2k2, we'll give up our healthcare and you don't need to match on our pension anymore if you go to 5%!"), there's just an absolute limit to where you can go sometimes.

So that lengthy example is why I get annoyed when people presume that if we did something different in negotiations, that we could have gotten a different result. Yeah, MAYBE. There's also a really good chance we couldn't have. Sergachev will probably be as or more valuable than McDonagh when McDonagh's current deal is up. I have no doubt that Yzerman went into the negotiations thinking to himself, "Unless Gorton does something stupid like offers to include Chytil, there is NO WAY I'm giving up Sergachev in this deal. That's my limit." Again, I don't know this--no one knows. No one f***ing knows whether we could have pried away Sergachev. So let's not pretend like it's fact that we could have. Which, when we declare, "We could have had Sergachev," that's what we're doing.

 

[NYR Viper]

Wolf Pack is going to be stacked AF next year.

They will be much more fun to watch. That's for sure.

 

[AK 27]

I think he'd be a good captain under someone like Torts where the coach runs the room and the captain mostly sets a good example.

That's actually a REALLY good point. Who the captain is expected to be depends a lot on who the coach is and how he manages the team. Having said that, I think AV expects more from his captain than a Torts would. McD was a poor choice for this Rangers regime.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Not so sure about that. He tries to do too much on the ice, as someone on the boards put it 'he tries to play junior hockey in the NHL'. JT experiments with high risk, no reward plays, then he doesn't compete on both sides of the rink. He'll look for an open ice hit, which causes an odd man rush the other way for a goal. He's got all the tools, but barely a toolbox.

In comparison, a player like Kreider simplified his game and you can see the team benefit from him more because of it.

His toolbox was from Harbor Freight and broke after the second use.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Awesome. I'm horrible at navigating that sort of stuff with prospects, it's all super confusing to me.

Canadian Major juniors players can play in the AHL if they are 20 years old at the start of the AHL season or if they have played 5 seasons in major juniors.

Hajek turned 20 this month, Howden turns 20 next month

 

[Beacon]

We have arguably the best under 25 center depth in the league. After this draft, I recon we'll have some of the best defensive prospect depth in the league

Who is our 1C? Having a ton of future second, third and fourth liners is nice, but you're nowhere near the best without a 1C.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Since we're talking about defensemen... I have to say that overall I've been pretty unimpressed by Skjei this season. I know that a lot has to do with your defensive partner, the forwards helping out, etc. but he seems to make a LOT of mistakes. Then he makes an end-to-end rush that ends up with him behind the opponent's net. I dunno, I just think he is overvalued at this point. I know he's young but he reminds me of Del Zotto sometimes. I don't see him as any kind of untouchable commodity the way some do.

I'd like to see Skjei with a new coach and a better system. Who has looked good under AV this year?

 

[AK 27]

I'd like to see Skjei with a new coach and a better system. Who has looked good under AV this year?

I dunno, as much as I don't like AV I feel like the defense has been significantly worse with Lindy Ruff at the helm. And that's saying a lot considering I thought Beukeboom handled them poorly as well.

Then again, when you have people like Staal crawling back to the backboards in order to retrieve the puck, your options are limited. Ugh.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Who is our 1C? Having a ton of future second, third and fourth liners is nice, but you're nowhere near the best without a 1C.

I don't think we have a 1C yet

Chytil could be that guy, but he isn't atm

I also never said we had a 1C. I said they have the best depth at C in the league of guys under 25

 

[haveandare]

Canadian Major juniors players can play in the AHL if they are 20 years old at the start of the AHL season or if they have played 5 seasons in major juniors.

Hajek turned 20 this month, Howden turns 20 next month

Thanks, I figured it was something like that since 20 seems to be the cut off for juniors players.

 

[will1066]

Who is our 1C? Having a ton of future second, third and fourth liners is nice, but you're nowhere near the best without a 1C.

Michael Nylander, making a comeback and showing his kid how it's really done.

 

[will1066]

Watch Miller make the leap to being elite. I just see this happening, with a new environment, a coach who might understand him better than AV did, and new linemates. Jagr was a mercurial being that JT is in similar mold to, but that doesn't mean he's not incapable of great things. Not comparing Miller to a legend like Jagr, but you give him a change of scenery and new people surrounding him, the kid has the tools.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I wouldn't agree with this statement entirely. My favorite example, Niklas Lidstrom. Not fiery or extremely vocal at all, but when all the cards were on the table, he elevated his play to legendary levels. Another great example of this, Joe Sakic.

As for McDonagh, he certainly showed that moxy in the Cup year. Once he was handed the C, you can definitely see a slight buckle in his play. He was always outstanding at the little details and simply being difficult to play against, but he never retained that elite elevation of play when it mattered most (especially when we needed it the year after in that series against Tampa). There's nothing that McDonagh did to pull the C off his chest, but now that his tenure is over, I was left wanting after the cup year to see that level of performance again, only to not see it since.

Towards the end, he actually almost felt like a direct reason why we were falling into the abyss (despite what the numbers showed this year, he clearly had a drop in the level of his play).

Regardless, I enjoyed what McDonagh brought to the table and appreciate everything he did in a Rangers jersey. A toast to Mac Truck!

No you didn't. What you saw was the team around him going from an elite team to a pretty bad team in short order. You saw him having to carry around the carcass of Dan Girardi and other assorted bums. The idea I have seen thrown around here that McDonagh was never the same after getting the captaincy, and he was never the same after the injuries is a revisionist narrative, and not really backed up by much evidence.

 

[ponytrekker]

I think this was a reasonable trade. I have no issue with someone who characterizes it as a poor trade; I disagree, but you know, opinions and all. I just take issue with posters that make declarations like, "Gorton could have gotten Player X," or, "If Gorton had done XYZ we could have held onto ABC." Stuff like that. No one KNOWS that. No one KNOWS what could have been gotten.

Part of my job currently, and over the past 12 years, . . . .

It's all about alternatives and leverage from the alternatives. I think Dolan, I mean Gorton, did the team and its negotiation position a disservice by the "We are selling" announcement. If someone knows you need a job they offer you less money than if they are trying to lure you from a competitor. Similarly, if they would have taken the position saying: "we are still in the hunt but will listen to offers" (A) the team doesn't go into a funk (maybe) and (B) it drives the price up. Having as an alternative, "we may keep him and go for it" gives you leverage.

 

[Edge]

I would've been ok with quantity instead of quality. If the Lightning throws in Raddysh on top of the current package, I'm perfectly satisfied.

Raddyish was one of those players that was tossed around on here.

Would've really liked to have added him as well.

 

[Rangers in 7]

It's all about alternatives and leverage from the alternatives. I think Dolan, I mean Gorton, did the team and its negotiation position a disservice by the "We are selling" announcement. If someone knows you need a job they offer you less money than if they are trying to lure you from a competitor. Similarly, if they would have taken the position saying: "we are still in the hunt but will listen to offers" (A) the team doesn't go into a funk (maybe) and (B) it drives the price up. Having as an alternative, "we may keep him and go for it" gives you leverage.

other teams arent stupid....when there is smoke there is fire, once nash or grabner went it would have been open season anyways

 

[mrmovies779]

Watch Miller make the leap to being elite.

I dont see it with his consistency issues.