The Crypto Guy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
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Anyway you slice it, it was the right move to move McD now rather than risk getting even worse offers at the draft.
Confirmed with Link: McDonagh + Miller to Tampa Bay for Namestnikov + Howden + Hajek + 2018 1st + conditional 2019 1st
- Thread starter nevesis
- Start date
E-Train
Registered User
You summed up exactly what I was about to post. I don't see any GM blowing away the TB deal in June. Especially one with a top 10 pick.
Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
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They were the biggest UDFA fish in recent years and yet they both became only 3rd liners: Hayes a very good one, Vesey a very so-so 3LW, maybe even 4LW. We are not signing Zadina as a UDFA.
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
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Lesser players than McD get moved for more often.
The 4-6 teams looking at McD for a cup run only have bad picks. The other 20 plus teams that might be interested in a 1st pairing Dman come June would have better picks.
Boston just gave up a first for a 20 game rental of Nash. I hope you are right. I hope this is a very good deal. I just think we took back quantity not quality for a 1st pairing defensemen so I'm not impressed. I would have waited because this is nothing to go OMG I can't believe we got xyz for McD.
I think something worth mentioning is that Gorton went past the point of no return with some of these trades. Sitting Nash. All of the McDonagh rumors (since he was not with the team). It wears on these guys. Zucc, who was rumored, was never sat down. Grabner and Nash were. That was happening. Having a trade not happen would be weird for the locker room. I kinda feel like Gorton was just like, "F it. Let's make it happen and get the best we can get for McDonagh right now". I know a lot more goes into the decision, obviously, but when a team releases a press statement about a rebuild a little more than midway through the season, you know its going to get messy and that feathers are going to be ruffled. Plus, McD is your captain.
Having said that, Pacioretty didn't get moved, which was surprising. And he was all smiles last night during warmups haha. Every team is a unique experience, I suppose. The Rangers have NOT seemed like a jolly bunch as of recent.
Having said that, Pacioretty didn't get moved, which was surprising. And he was all smiles last night during warmups haha. Every team is a unique experience, I suppose. The Rangers have NOT seemed like a jolly bunch as of recent.
dshea19
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2015
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As much as I wish we could have gotten better prospects for McD, he isn't the type of D-man that gets that return. He is a great defenseman, but he isn't elite. It would be unlikely they get an elite prospect and a 1st for him. Karlsson gets that return, but not McD. I wanted more for him, but I don't think the market was there considering who the buyers were. Maybe if Karlsson wasn't going to be available, then McD is the best option out there and people will overpay for him. I think that situation screwed the possible return more than anything. McD isn't a dominating game changer like Karlsson, so that affects the perceived cost when talking with teams. However, if you are the best thing available without any other close options, the value gets inflated.
ding ding ding: The Rangers moved on from McDonagh now because they want to avoid the incoming 7-to-8-year contract worth at least $7-million per. That’s a smart move. Despite all McDonagh has given to this franchise, and all the love and respect he deserves, the Rangers need to learn a critical lesson from their post-Cup run mistakes. The biggest of which is: Don’t pay a guy tomorrow for what he did yesterday. As much as you love McDonagh, as much as you think he has three to four elite years left, that contract is going to be a minefield, and the Rangers gingerly avoiding dancing in it was a smart (although painful) move.
Lesser players get moved for more? Unless you’re talking about young players with a ton of control, this is news to me.
Also McDonagh has a 10 team no trade list so the pool of teams is 20, not 30. When you factor in the teams who would be on that list who don’t have the need or assets, that pool becomes even smaller.
Also they got 2 picks back for him, not 1.
P.S. - regarding all the Trade Mcd now or trade him before the Draft:
I have to agree with those who said it may have been better to wait. I mean, McD was our best asset. Sure, his value is up for debate but he has a solid reputation in this league. I think what we got in return was less that what could have been had (even packaged with someone else, perhaps). And I do agree that if you wait for the Draft you are opening yourself up to ALL teams vs just a select few. It's not the end of the world, but I do have to agree with that sentiment. If you think you are being undersold then just wait. He's not 28 going on 38. He's 28 going on 29. He's in his prime. You're gonna tell me that there isn't a team out there willing to pay handsomely for that? Come on. And yeah, I know he isn't the 2015 McDonagh. But I do know that a lot of teams would sign on for what he has to offer. Yes, I realize he's near a contract year. So what. A lot of guys are. You either make it work or you trade him to someone else. Either way he's probably going to be trying to play his best hockey in order to get paid.
I have to agree with those who said it may have been better to wait. I mean, McD was our best asset. Sure, his value is up for debate but he has a solid reputation in this league. I think what we got in return was less that what could have been had (even packaged with someone else, perhaps). And I do agree that if you wait for the Draft you are opening yourself up to ALL teams vs just a select few. It's not the end of the world, but I do have to agree with that sentiment. If you think you are being undersold then just wait. He's not 28 going on 38. He's 28 going on 29. He's in his prime. You're gonna tell me that there isn't a team out there willing to pay handsomely for that? Come on. And yeah, I know he isn't the 2015 McDonagh. But I do know that a lot of teams would sign on for what he has to offer. Yes, I realize he's near a contract year. So what. A lot of guys are. You either make it work or you trade him to someone else. Either way he's probably going to be trying to play his best hockey in order to get paid.
2Leetch_94
Kreid Me A River
4 out of the top 7 prospects moved. Two 2018 1st rounders, a 2018 2nd, 2018 3rd, a 2019 2nd/1st, and two young, solid roster pieces in Namestnikov and Spooner who can remain or become assets to flip elsewhere during the off-season. Rome wasn't built in a day but it had to start somewhere.
I can't escape the feeling that Miller was sacrificed for AVs benefit. I also have a sinking feeling that AV might still be here when the next season starts.
I sincerely hope that I am wrong.
Since this got WAY too long I'm TL DR each paragraph at the very start of it. Feel free to read those in bold and skip my reasoning.
First a TL DR for the whole thing: It is highly unlikely we'd get anything earlier than a 7th overall pick by trading McD at the draft. We'd get a prospect MAYBE at Lijek's level to go with the top pick and that's it. It's a worse trade imo.
We are getting roughly a 7-12 OA pick back.We saw last year which teams in the top 10 are looking for a top6/top 4 quality veteran. Teams like Arizona. Teams who pick around 7-12 who think they're just one top player away from having everything come together and coalesce into a team that isn't a puddle of puke. Teams with the top picks don't trade for expiring contracts. Last year did not set this precedent btw, it just gave us an example to look to.
So the following paragraph is a long ass way of saying I don't really imagine us being able to trade into the top 3 using McD and JT as leverage. I dared to dream about keeping McD and JT and using them, plus multiple picks to trade into the top 3 WHILE keeping our own pick. Realistically, I don't see any team in that range pulling the trigger on a trade like that though. Why would they? What would they be getting? A combo of 2 or even THREE of McD, JT, Kreider, Zuke, then a 1st and 2nd or maybe 1 of Lias or Chytil? We had McD, JT, Kreider and Zuke and we still sucked to high hell so if I'm a team with a top 3 pick, why am I trading that potential superstar for aging players on a bottom team and expiring contracts>? I'm not. I'm taking my weight in blood with 1 of Lias or Chyt + picks to go along WITH a vet or two. If the NYR aren't willing to part with all that (perfectly understandable), fine, I'll gladly keep my potential franchise superstar.
The trade we got is better than trading for a pick in the 7-12 range (Plus a prospect around Lijek's level) how many players picked around 7-20 in every draft bomb out? Do we really want to sacrifice Howden, a 1st and a conditional 2nd just to pick around 7? I know we aren't all that familiar with Howden but it really just doesn't seem worth it to me. If this draft ran today and Howden of today were in it, where would he go? Shoot he might BE a top 15 pick! So do we really want to give up a player worthy of top 15 in the draft, a 1st and a conditional second for a pick around 7-12?
Consider each pick and prospect a chance at filling our top 6 or top 4, the trade we got is twice as good. I like our chances. That hypothetical trade for a top 10 pick probably gets us one other prospect. That means we get just 2 opportunities to fill our top 6 and top 4 with quality players. Our current trade gave us 4 chances: 2 prospects and then the two picks.
If I gave each chance an arbitrary number for value I'd give a 7th overall an 8.
I'd give Howden, a 1st and a conditonal second a 13 or 14. Almost twice as good.
(LOL Hajek. I'm becoming my father. He has a propensity to butcher names he's positively familiar with. To him Jimmy Garrapolo is Gair -a- folo. So i'm leaving the butchered name in)
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haveandare
Registered User
Sometimes you have to pay a guy tomorrow for what he did yesterday, but IMO only for top, top talents. For example, someone like Karlsson, you give him a UFA deal if your team is close to contending without him already and you deal with the fallout later. Someone like McD, it's wise to really think about it.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
With rare exception, I usually try to avoid using the word "never."
But I do tend to view things sports-related (and in life) as probabilities ranging from near certain, to likely, to maybe/possible, to not likely, to almost certainly not.
Most things fall along this spectrum. Sometimes there are things that I don't find to be probable, based on my experience.
That's not to say it can't happen, it just has varying degrees of likelihood.
I usually try to base my theories on precedent or evidence, it's the lawyer in me. Unfortunately, people might not always like to hear that. Sometimes the reality of something is disappointing, especially when you know pretty early on that something isn't working and isn't likely to work. At that point, you have two primary choices:
You can bang your head against the wall and insist things will change. Sometimes they do, but that's rare. If it comes down to your head or the wall, the wall usually wins.
Or, you can readjust, try to find a different path forward, and move on. This is usually a more productive approach, though one could argue that it's not any less painful.
LeetchisGod
This is a bad hockey team.
This really worries me. It should be painfully obvious to Gorton that AV is past his expiration date. Basically everyone on our roster has regressed under him of late. That is very telling.
I don’t think so.
If you listened to what he said he pretty much laid it out there that AV will not be back next season. They’ll word it as a mutual parting of ways when it does happen but JG knows that he is not the guy to lead a young team.
Jim Ramsay
Registered User
They are getting 2 years out of duchene... and yeah what a terrible deal
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
It's been said before, but this deal as more about McD's next contract and what he delivers as part of that accord, than it was about what he's done, and can still do, over this contract.
Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
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I'd rather use those two (Spoon & Names) to move up our late first round picks than to use other picks. Would be nice if we got a top-10 pick for Zucc, then used Spoon & Names to move up BB/TBL picks into the early 20s. Would be amazing to have 4 picks in the 6-22 range.
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
Outside of Forsberg, can anyone name prospects who were acquired at the TDL that would go on to have successful careers?
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
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Why would teams be willing to pay McD 8-9 mill a year if he was not worth a top 15 pick?
JT Kreider
FIRE GORDIE CLARK
We always use the Vlasic contract (8 years $7 mill AAV) as the comparable contract Mac will get.
That's going to get uglyyyyy real quick
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
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Please explain why we would need Tkachuk. Depending on who is available, this is my top-10 of who we should go for if available:
1. Dahlin
2. Svechnikov
3. Zadina
4. Boqvist
5. Hughes
6. Wahlstrom
7. Bouchard
8. Dobson
9. Tkachuk
10.Woo/Farabee
we arent close to contending though and we'll be stuck with another annoyingly expensive contract to deal with later. not worth it for a rebuild. mcDo isn't the first and he isn't the last good defenseman. he's also certainly no Karlsson or Leetch. we'll find another defenseman we can call a top D in the league. rangers inevitably get talent. but some things take time. all great teams are not that great for short (or long) periods of time. people just conveniently ignore that part when making their arguments. look at tampa, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2016 -- didn't even make the playoffs.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think Gorton's interview was pretty telling.
The Rangers have clear ideas of who they are targeting - be it Andersson, Hajek, etc.
A mutual parting with AV seems almost certain.
The Miller move was an active decision. They clearly were ready to move in a different direction there.
There are no quick fixes to this. They're not going to go the Edmonton route, but this is not a team I expect to be packaging young assets to get players who are "already there."
The Rangers are looking for specific personalities and work ethics.
