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Confirmed with Link: McDonagh + Miller to Tampa Bay for Namestnikov + Howden + Hajek + 2018 1st + conditional 2019 1st

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If you have competent scouting and front office a rebuild will succeed. If not, look at the browns. Some organizations are just bad from top to bottom, the rangers used to be one of them but I have confidence in the org to turn it around.
 
NickyFotiu said:
Gorton was not responsible for much of that 11 year run and its going to be way longer than 3 years before this team sniffs a conference or cup final again.
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I feel like this process was inevitable, be it now or a year from now.

There were just too many holes.

Now we see what Gorton can really do and what Gordie can find with more picks.
 
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E-Train said:
I like this approach better than perpetual mediocrity. Enough with the can kicking, they blew it up. Time to move on.
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I agree with you that now was the time to make changes. We are both on the same train there. I disagree with the results. We could not afford to give up both McD and JT back without getting a real top prospect or top draft pick building block back. We made a panic move of McD. We could have got much more in the off-season. We got the #7 pick for Stepan on a bad contract and now we will have the #30 for McD on a good contract? McD was our best trade piece and we didn't get back a top line return.
 
LeetchisGod said:
That was going to be the case anyway if they didn't rebuild.
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I'm 100% in favor of a rebuild BUT you just gave up your #1 trading piece (a legit #1 Dman) without getting a top line prospect or a top line draft pick back. Why not wait for a better offer in June. Keep in mind we got #7 for Stepan. We just got #30 for McD.
 
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Edge said:
I feel like this process was inevitable, be it now or a year from now.

There were just too many holes.

Now we see what Gorton can really do and what Gordie can find with more picks.
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I'm fine with rebuilding. I just firmly disagree with the return. We got back almost as much for a 20 game rental of Nash as we did for McD. We should have waited till June. We could have got a top 10 pick. We got #7 for Stepan.
 
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E-Train said:
I like this approach better than perpetual mediocrity. Enough with the can kicking, they blew it up. Time to move on.
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Gorton was pretty clear about his thoughts, thus the term "dreaded middle."

I think the writing was on the wall from a while ago, and once the injuries and the slumping started, it was all she wrote.

So here we are.

I like what we have thus far. It's not enough, they're not perfect prospects, but I think think we did very good overall.
 
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I think a lot of us are looking at "THE REBUILD" as a science. It isn't. Citing other teams is understandable because some seem to do it better than others but there are SO many factors that go into it - LUCK being a huge one. Sometimes all it takes is one or two lucky picks. Sometimes it takes more. All I'm trying to say is that banging our heads against the wall about which teams got it right and which teams got it wrong is sort of pointless. The difference between a Cup and finishing in the top 5 is so slim. It's the entire organization as a whole thrown in with a lot of luck. It's what you do with that luck that seems to determine the staying power of a team. But they all fall down eventually - look at Chicago.
 
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Alluckks said:
You can't even read the one sentence trade properly and have written literally a 40 page diary entry that reads like a sad monologue

Come on man, you're better than this
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I read it was 2020 at first, that's how it was reported. I then saw here that it was 2019. Just one very short post among 1,500 in 20 hours, not that terrible.
 
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NickyFotiu said:
I'm 100% in favor of a rebuild BUT you just gave up your #1 trading piece (a legit #1 Dman) without getting a top line prospect or a top line draft pick back. Why not wait for a better offer in June. Keep in mind we got #7 for Stepan. We just got #30 for McD.
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ummmm because you got the #2 and the #4 prospect to go with that. the pick itself at any round and whether high or low is just a gamble because you never know what will be left on the table. most of the board wasn't even happy about Lias. so... yea. the return here is wonderful.
 
NYR Viper said:
I would give both Spooner and Namestnikov longer contracts to keep their AAV down. I'd do the same with Hayes and Skjei.


Spooner - 5 years @ $4.25m per season

Hayes - 5 years @ 3.75m per season

Namestnikov - 5 years @ $3.5m per season

Skjei - 8 years @ $4.25m
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My guesses

Spooner - 4 years, 3.75 per season
Hayes - 4 years, 4.2 per season
Namestnikov - 3 years, 3 per season
Skjei - 6 years, 4.25 per season
 
NickyFotiu said:
I'm 100% in favor of a rebuild BUT you just gave up your #1 trading piece (a legit #1 Dman) without getting a top line prospect or a top line draft pick back. Why not wait for a better offer in June. Keep in mind we got #7 for Stepan. We just got #30 for McD.
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Hajek has 1st pairing potential from what I've read. May be unlikely to reach it, but if he really puts it together he can certainly get there.
 
GregSirico said:
I like Miler a lot (on ability) but there's something to be said for being an adult and giving 100% effort regardless of your opinion of the coach.
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You don't teach work ethic and motivation, this isn't a movie with a training montage for the star characters.

I think Gorton wants players that all hold themselves and each other accountable - and a team that he doesn't have to worry about staying motivated. Makes it easier for the coach as well.
 
Another thought, which I think is worthy separate of posting separate from my earlier aggregated thoughts on the previous page:

In thinking about this deal (and the Stepan deal), and the expectations we all had going in, I think people apply standards from other sports to hockey. Shit, the Yanks got Torres-plus for a 1-year rental of Chapman! Look at the Yanks, they got Frazier-Sheffield-plus for Miller! The Nets traded Brook Lopez and got back D'Angelo Russell! I know that was influencing my own thinking. But in looking at hockey, it doesn't work that way.
 
NickyFotiu said:
I'm fine with rebuilding. I just firmly disagree with the return. We got back almost as much for a 20 game rental of Nash as we did for McD. We should have waited till June. We could have got a top 10 pick. We got #7 for Stepan.
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Different players, different ages, different contracts.

I have to tell you that I really, firmly do not believe there was a better deal awaiting us in June. At best, it's the same deals. I believe that with 95% certainty based on my familiarity with the industry and my own experiences over the last 20+ years.

I sincerely feel that the market is what it is for McD. The Rangers talked to a lot of teams, this wasn't an expedited process by any stretch.

I get the disappointment of not getting a better return. I really do.

But I just don't think it was there to be found. There's nothing, other than the hopes of a segment of Ranger fans, to say otherwise. It's just not there. I don't know how else to say it.
 
Off Sides said:
I am fine with them changing the culture, but again they need to not get too carried away. Falling in love with pre-draft prospects or really any prospect/current nhler because they ooze character yet are short on talent is not really a great idea.
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I don't think they targeted anyone short on talent
 
jas said:
Or give up a #1 pick for Griffin Reinhardt
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Man, if the Oilers had Barzal and Hall instead of Rein and Larsson, they'd be legit Cup contenders right now. We'd probably have traded McDonagh to them instead.
 
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Alluckks said:
You don't teach work ethic and motivation, this isn't a movie with a training montage for the star characters.

I think Gorton wants players that all hold themselves and each other accountable - and a team that he doesn't have to worry about staying motivated. Makes it easier for the coach as well.
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That was my point, I think he soured on JT and his lackluster effort.
 
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Edge said:
There was a very telling little line that Brooks used in his his article yesterday about Miller being younger than his years.

I can't help but feel that was the sentiment, right or wrong.
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When I met Miller several years ago he came off as very skittish, almost awkward and just uninterested in what was going on around him overall... and I like to think I am fairly decent at reading a person (for whatever that is worth)

Seems as though he never changed much of that and it also reflected in his work ethic
 
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kramer987 said:
ummmm because you got the #2 and the #4 prospect to go with that. the pick itself at any round and whether high or low is just a gamble because you never know what will be left on the table. most of the board wasn't even happy about Lias. so... yea. the return here is wonderful.
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Hopefully the defensemen works out. He is the biggest hope but Howden is far from wonderful. This return was not wonderful. Its quantity not quality.
 
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