Player Discussion McDavid

[Stoneman89]

Could care less. it did sting for a year or so. But more the case its just interesting how much the story at the time absolved Wayne and blamed it all on the org. Reality likely that Janet Jones was going to have more aversion to living in Edmonton than Prongers wife. She called the shots too. Janet was out of here soon as he got together with the "hollywood starlet" him landing in LA being much more than coincidental which a lot of people put together at the time while the scribes and Gretzky pointed fingers.

As some would say, "moot point."

 

[CROTT]

 

[Oildrum]

I think we find out what happens next summer. If Drai signs a long term extension 97% chance McDavid does as well.

If Drai signs some 2-3 year deal then I'd be worried.

Enjoy watching them while you can, it will be over before you know it regardless. Be a shame if we don't win a cup with them; this may be our best modern day window for a very very long time.

 

[Soundwave]

Could care less. it did sting for a year or so. But more the case its just interesting how much the story at the time absolved Wayne and blamed it all on the org. Reality likely that Janet Jones was going to have more aversion to living in Edmonton than Prongers wife. She called the shots too. Janet was out of here soon as he got together with the "hollywood starlet" him landing in LA being much more than coincidental which a lot of people put together at the time while the scribes and Gretzky pointed fingers.

I mean kinda sorta. The biggest issue was still Pocklington being a crook who was looking to bail out his floundering business.

The NHL should have had a rule where you can't just trade cash for a player (like what the f*** amateur hour BS was that anyway?) and Pocklington should've just manned up and sold the team to another Alberta area investor and taken a nice profit to do so.

In that case I think Wayne stays at least through till 1992. Wayne was in love with the city/community too much and they would've been winning too much, the fact that Gretzky had his wedding in Edmonton rather than back "home" in Ontario says a lot. Like the entire city was like his family. I'm pretty sure McDavid will have his wedding out east.

In an alternate time line I think Gretz stays until 92 or so and then gets traded to Detroit and then maybe wins a few more Cups there too. He's probably retire with like 6-8 Cups. Going to LA really f***ed his career in a lot of ways.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I mean kinda sorta. The biggest issue was still Pocklington being a crook who was looking to bail out his floundering business.

The NHL should have had a rule where you can't just trade cash for a player (like what the f*** amateur hour BS was that anyway?) and Pocklington should've just manned up and sold the team to another Alberta area investor and taken a nice profit to do so.

In that case I think Wayne stays at least through till 1992. Wayne was in love with the city/community too much and they would've been winning too much, the fact that Gretzky had his wedding in Edmonton rather than back "home" in Ontario says a lot. I'm not sure if even McDavid will do that.

I think you're younger so you weren't around but in the 80's the Alberta economy was dismal. Things were bad in Edmonton. There wasn't a lot of investors or big business flooding the city. There wouldn't be any prospective owners here that would both buy the club, and then decide to keep it here.

By 1990, even at low ticket prices you could get tickets to any playoff game you like. They weren't even selling out some games. Nobody would have bought the team and kept it here. By 91 and through to end of decade you could just come to a game with a Twenty and get any ticket in the house for that. Just flash a twenty. Scalpers fearful of eating all their tickets would give them away at firesale prices. Least I paid was 10bucks, most, 20. There was no demand for tickets. There was limited revenue. The situation where the Edmonton Owners group had to pass a hat around to cover expenses was already in display.

 

[Soundwave]

I think you're younger so you weren't around but in the 80's the Alberta economy was dismal. Things were bad in Edmonton. There wasn't a lot of investors or big business flooding the city. There wouldn't be any prospective owners here that would both buy the club, and then decide to keep it here.

By 1990, even at low ticket prices you could get tickets to any playoff game you like. They weren't even selling out some games. Nobody would have bought the team and kept it here. By 91 and through to end of decade you could just come to a game with a Twenty and get any ticket in the house for that. Just flash a twenty. Scalpers fearful of eating all their tickets would give them away at firesale prices. Least I paid was 10bucks, most, 20. There was no demand for tickets. There was limited revenue. The situation where the Edmonton Owners group had to pass a hat around to cover expenses was already in display.

I was definitely around then.

The team was certainly I think making a profit in the 80s. Maybe not huge, huge money but firstly there's a BIG difference between 1988 and 1990 ... a team with Gretzky on it would have greater value than the version without. So that doesn't surprise me.

Tickets were cheap, but so were player salaries, the Oilers were paying Gretzky like 900k Canadian a year, Messier was like 500k (lol).

Pocklington if he had sold the team in the summer of 1988 (instead of selling Gretzky) would have almost certainly made himself a tidy profit from the peanuts he paid for the team.

But I think that was his ego, he couldn't bear to sell the team and figured it was better to sell Gretzky.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I was definitely around then.

The team was certainly I think making a profit in the 80s. Maybe not huge, huge money but firstly there's a BIG difference between 1988 and 1990 ... a team with Gretzky on it would have greater value than the version without. So that doesn't surprise me.

Tickets were cheap, but so were player salaries, the Oilers were paying Gretzky like 900k Canadian a year, Messier was like 500k (lol).

Pocklington if he had sold the team in the summer of 1988 (instead of selling Gretzky) would have almost certainly made himself a tidy profit from the peanuts he paid for the team.

But I think that was his ego, he couldn't bear to sell the team and figured it was better to sell Gretzky.

Interesting ticket demand and sales were somewhat higher in 90 than in 88. In 88 the erosion in ticket sales had already started. On average there were 550 unsold tickets/game that season and playoff tickets were so easy to get. That was for a SC winning club that was carving through opposition. The radical drop in attendance occurred a few years later but it was already in the mail.

Edmonton Oilers [NHL] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

A historical graph of the yearly attendance for the Edmonton Oilers [NHL] of the National Hockey League.

www.hockeydb.com

Really the Oilers lost their dynasty collective of players the moment that salary disclosure was occurring. Paul Coffey led the way and the others would surely follow the buck at some point. Really it was amazing most of the crew stuck around for a few years after Gretzky and Coffey had left.

This market wasn't big enough that you could have ticket sales to see crumbs like David Oliver on a PP after seeing the greatest team on Earth. It was predictable that revenue would collapse post dynasty.

 

[Soundwave]

Interesting ticket demand and sales were somewhat higher in 90 than in 88. In 88 the erosion in ticket sales had already started. On average there were 550 unsold tickets/game that season and playoff tickets were so easy to get. That was for a SC winning club that was carving through opposition. The radical drop in attendance occurred a few years later but it was already in the mail.

Edmonton Oilers [NHL] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

A historical graph of the yearly attendance for the Edmonton Oilers [NHL] of the National Hockey League.

www.hockeydb.com

Really the Oilers lost their dynasty collective of players the moment that salary disclosure was occurring. Paul Coffey led the way and the others would surely follow the buck at some point. Really it was amazing most of the crew stuck around for a few years after Gretzky and Coffey had left.

This market wasn't big enough that you could have ticket sales to see crumbs like David Oliver on a PP after seeing the greatest team on Earth. It was predictable that revenue would collapse post dynasty.

$20 a ticket was actually about average for tickets for all teams in the 80s, it wasn't just an Oilers thing. I've seen vintage Flyers tickets from the Oilers-Flyers 87 Cup Final that was $20 in Philly, lol.

The problem with the fanbase back then is they were used to nothing but winning and having Gretzky all the time.

When they lost that, there was a period of time where people just bailed out.

But the Oilers since then have developed generation after generation of a fanbase, which is just as important as population size. Unlike the Leafs/Habs, the Oilers hadn't been in Edmonton for like 50 years, it was just one generation of fans.

Eventually they built it so that you have the Gretzky-era fans, the 90s Smyth/Weight era fans, fans brought in from the 2006 run, and now you have a massive entirely new generation due to McDavid/Draisaitl.

 

[Drivesaitl]

$20 a ticket was actually about average for tickets for all teams in the 80s, it wasn't just an Oilers thing. I've seen vintage Flyers tickets from the Oilers-Flyers 87 Cup Final that was $20 in Philly, lol.

The problem with the fanbase back then is they were used to nothing but winning and having Gretzky all the time.

When they lost that, there was a period of time where people just bailed out.

But the Oilers since then have developed generation after generation of a fanbase, which is just as important as population size. Unlike the Leafs/Habs, the Oilers hadn't been in Edmonton for like 50 years, it was just one generation of fans.

Eventually they built it so that you have the Gretzky-era fans, the 90s Smyth/Weight era fans, fans brought in from the 2006 run, and now you have a massive entirely new generation due to McDavid/Draisaitl.

Well that was Philly. Cheap working class city. They never had high ticket pricing. Plus thats USD in anycase. In Canada ticket prices were higher. Would cost more in Montreal, Toronto,

For sure the Oilers fanbase bailed. Again it was predictable. Nobody was going to invest in the team at that point.

 

[5 14 6 1]

I think we find out what happens next summer. If Drai signs a long term extension 97% chance McDavid does as well.

If Drai signs some 2-3 year deal then I'd be worried.

Enjoy watching them while you can, it will be over before you know it regardless. Be a shame if we don't win a cup with them; this may be our best modern day window for a very very long time.

We will win. I believe

 

[McShogun99]

I mean kinda sorta. The biggest issue was still Pocklington being a crook who was looking to bail out his floundering business.

The NHL should have had a rule where you can't just trade cash for a player (like what the f*** amateur hour BS was that anyway?) and Pocklington should've just manned up and sold the team to another Alberta area investor and taken a nice profit to do so.

In that case I think Wayne stays at least through till 1992. Wayne was in love with the city/community too much and they would've been winning too much, the fact that Gretzky had his wedding in Edmonton rather than back "home" in Ontario says a lot. Like the entire city was like his family. I'm pretty sure McDavid will have his wedding out east.

In an alternate time line I think Gretz stays until 92 or so and then gets traded to Detroit and then maybe wins a few more Cups there too. He's probably retire with like 6-8 Cups. Going to LA really f***ed his career in a lot of ways.

I think if Gretzky never got traded we win the cup in 89 and 91 but lose to Pittsburgh in 92 with probably one more cup in 93 or 94.

 

[McFlash97]

I think Drai signs a 3 year extension. McDavid then re-ups for 2- 3 years. I see at least 5 or 6 more seasons. Then it's all she wrote.

2 cups is the goal. If they do it. Even if they leave , the city is revived.

 

[Soundwave]

I think if Gretzky never got traded we win the cup in 89 and 91 but lose to Pittsburgh in 92 with probably one more cup in 93 or 94.

89 would've been a crazy Battle of Alberta, that Flames team was a wagon. We might actually lose there, but probably come back to win in 90 and 91 I think.

 

[McShogun99]

89 would've been a crazy Battle of Alberta, that Flames team was a wagon. We might actually lose there, but probably come back to win in 90 and 91 I think.

I just want to believe that we would have erased any Cup in the Flames history.

 

[Soundwave]

I just want to believe that we would have erased any Cup in the Flames history.

It's entirely possible they would have. By the late 80s, the Gretzky Oilers really totally owned the Flames, they were supposed to beat us in 88 but instead we beat them worse than ever before.

So there is that factor too, I think we owned them psychologically. And we beat them anyway in '91 without Gretzky (and Kurri) too (lol).

 

[K1984]

89 would've been a crazy Battle of Alberta, that Flames team was a wagon. We might actually lose there, but probably come back to win in 90 and 91 I think.

They were a wagon in 88 and were favorites in that series before the Oilers pissed on them.

If the team didn't blow it against the Kings I'm not sure if even the Gretzky-less Oilers don't beat them in '89 anyways.

 

[Tarus]

 

[Mr Positive]

I think Drai signs a 3 year extension. McDavid then re-ups for 2- 3 years. I see at least 5 or 6 more seasons. Then it's all she wrote.

2 cups is the goal. If they do it. Even if they leave , the city is revived.

That seems like a mental compromise. It doesn't have to be that way. I definitely think both would leave room at the end of their primes to pick a new team if they didn't win a cup. Winning a cup now would help reduce that fear in them. With Drai's extension eligibility coming this July, it would be very good to have the team win it all now. No pressure!

But honestly I think they'd stay if the team is great. That's why I think as much as we need to go all in, we need to look to the future as well.

That's why I'm so intent in us giving Holloway, Broberg and Lavoie roster spots. Bourgault maybe next year. We need guys to trend up as our veteran core trends down. How many great years of RNH, Kane, Ekholm and Hyman are left? If they start a decline at the same time roughly, we can't just patch this up in free agency and trades. Get an up and coming young core and McDrai signs for 6-8 years instead of 2-3

 

[Soundwave]

I honestly wouldn't be that opposed to McDrai signing 3-4 year extensions because really if they don't win by then, then odds are its never happening here anyway.

That said I don't think they really have to do all that. Jackson is McDavid's buddy, he will honor a trade request if Connor wants it, doesn't matter if the contract he has is 3 years or 8 years, so you might as well take the security of 8 years.

I think they'll have an understanding of "look I'll sign an 8 year extension, but if year 3 into that extension we still haven't won and still having major problems, then I want you to honor a request to trade me to a team of my choosing". That's fair enough.

Matthews is kind of in a different spot as his extension is up earlier and he is banking on a giant cap rise, but that cap rise should already be in place for Draisaitl and McDavid's next contracts.

 

[McFlash97]

That seems like a mental compromise. It doesn't have to be that way. I definitely think both would leave room at the end of their primes to pick a new team if they didn't win a cup. Winning a cup now would help reduce that fear in them. With Drai's extension eligibility coming this July, it would be very good to have the team win it all now. No pressure!

But honestly I think they'd stay if the team is great. That's why I think as much as we need to go all in, we need to look to the future as well.

That's why I'm so intent in us giving Holloway, Broberg and Lavoie roster spots. Bourgault maybe next year. We need guys to trend up as our veteran core trends down. How many great years of RNH, Kane, Ekholm and Hyman are left? If they start a decline at the same time roughly, we can't just patch this up in free agency and trades. Get an up and coming young core and McDrai signs for 6-8 years instead of 2-3

I believe the end goal for McDavid is a cup with Edmonton. I think in his eyes, once he wins a cup here his job is done, and he's out of here. Just a feeling. I could be totally off base here too.

 

[Soundwave]

I believe the end goal for McDavid is a cup with Edmonton. I think in his eyes, once he wins a cup here his job is done, and he's out if here. Just a feeling.

If he wins a Cup here, 100% he will want to defend it with the team he won it with, as basically all the greats before him.

Winning a Cup is an emotional thing, it bonds you to your teammates and city in a way that is difficult to describe.

 

[McFlash97]

If he wins a Cup here, 100% he will want to defend it with the team he won it with, as basically all the greats before him.

Winning a Cup is an emotional thing, it bonds you to your teammates and city in a way that is difficult to describe.

Although I agree with you, I also believe, with Bedard getting attention in the USA, McDavid would also want a piece of that pie. Endorsement deals playing in a big American market might just be too much to not go for. NHL is terrible at marketing stars on canadian teams in America. McDavid with the Rangers, Kings, Hawks, Vegas might be too much for the Oil to compete with. Players mature, they grow up and awe factor of playing for a Canadian team quickly goes out the door when these guys get married and hit 30 plus. Weather also eventually starts to play an issue. Just enjoy him while he's here. Don't expect him to just play his entire career out in Edmonton. All I'm saying. I'll.be devastated if he leaves and pray that he finishes his career here. However I'm not expecting that to happen.

 

[Mr Positive]

Although I agree with you, I also believe, with Bedard getting attention in the USA, McDavid would also want a piece of that pie. Endorsement deals playing in a big American market might just be too much to not go for. NHL is terrible at marketing stars on canadian teams in America. McDavid with the Rangers, Kings, Hawks, Vegas might be too much for the Oil to compete with. Players mature, they grow up and awe factor of playing for a Canadian team quickly goes out the door when these guys get married and hit 30 plus. Weather also eventually starts to play an issue. Just enjoy him while he's here. Don't expect him to just play his entire career out in Edmonton. All I'm saying. I'll.be devastated if he leaves and pray that he finishes his career here. However I'm not expecting that to happen.

Imo McDavid is too wired for hockey to care too much about these money matters, but maybe for his legacy he'd go to one of those major markets like Gretzky did. I do see what you mean by saying that winning a cup here might make him think he's done here, but that's within 3 years so if we don't win by then he will be 29 going on 30 and would (and imo should) leave the team for his best chance for a cup while he still can.

I also wonder if Draisaitl cares a ton about his legacy and may leave over it, but in his case so he can do so for the sake of German hockey.

Still, ultimately I feel that the friendship of the core players is genuine, and if the team is a contender they will all want to stay together. So, imo it is extremely important to make sure the team has a strong youth movement to keep the team exciting for years to come

 

[MessierII]

I think if Gretzky never got traded we win the cup in 89 and 91 but lose to Pittsburgh in 92 with probably one more cup in 93 or 94.

I mean the core was essentially split between LA and NYR. LA made the finals in 1993 and the rangers won in 1994. If we had kept that team together they would have dominated well into the mid 1990’s. 3 or 4 more cups for sure.

 

[McJadeddog]

I honestly wouldn't be that opposed to McDrai signing 3-4 year extensions because really if they don't win by then, then odds are its never happening here anyway.

That said I don't think they really have to do all that. Jackson is McDavid's buddy, he will honor a trade request if Connor wants it, doesn't matter if the contract he has is 3 years or 8 years, so you might as well take the security of 8 years.

I think they'll have an understanding of "look I'll sign an 8 year extension, but if year 3 into that extension we still haven't won and still having major problems, then I want you to honor a request to trade me to a team of my choosing". That's fair enough.

Matthews is kind of in a different spot as his extension is up earlier and he is banking on a giant cap rise, but that cap rise should already be in place for Draisaitl and McDavid's next contracts.

That is a really good point that I hadn't thought of before. Why not just sign long term to lock in the money, and then if you aren't happy, your former agent will get you to a team of your choosing. Makes a lot of sense actually.