McDavid and Matthews have to wait to overtake Crosby

[Jabba11]

Easy, he is NOT better. Sens homers will say it though. Lol

Karlsson...drafted 15th overall in 2008.

For what he brings to his team since his draft is pretty much out of this world.

Is he better than Crosby and McDavid? Value wise, for the position he got picked(if we take imagine it like the NFL where the rank actually impacts the cap) then, YES he is better than Crosby and McDavid.

But hockey player wise... it's so unfair to compare different positions. I'm staying neutral in this one haha

Karlsson is special. From a 5ft11 165lbs 15th overall pick, to become of the best defenseman of his draft...is insane. Who would have thought of that.

It would be like Mark Jankowski of the Falmes becoming a Hart orArt Ross trophy winner for multiple years.

 

[Cletus Marley]

I'm just arguing with you about the fact that you judge me on the "Crosby rewriting history". I didn't say that he will beat Gretzky or Lemieux or anybody else. But I wanted to show you that you undermined Crosby's achievements and how he has been rewriting history. He has been rewriting history.

Be honest, it's easy to laugh at my claim, but Crosby has been actually rewriting history. You don't need to be the first person to invent the lightbulb or the telephone or even discoverying physics equations to be rewriting history, you can be the one who created for example...FACEBOOK.. and still be rewriting history. That's my analogy...a bit weird but hope you get it.

There you go: Isaac Newton is probably considered one of the best if not the most influential scientist or mathematician in history, but didn't keep Einstein or Galileo or Darwin or Tesla to rewrite history as well. (Pretty sure my timeline is not correct but you get it)

Let's not forget the guy who invented the Flowbee:

 

[Future GOAT]

Why are you arguing semantics man ? McDavids first playoffs he put up 4 points in 6 on San Jose ...what did Crosby drop on the Sharks in his 10th season in the finals.....a meagre 4 assists. Get over it. McDavids performance agaist the sharks was on par with Crosbys..and guess what McDavid and co beat the sharks on 6 too........

You can expect daver to be in here in short order to confront you, he will marginalize McDavid and buff Crosby.

 

[McFlyingV]

This just isn't true. You could argue that McDavid flying the zone is worth it due to the space and high-quality chances he creates on the rush, but denying he does so is an opinion from imaginary land.

I've seen him do it multiple times every Oilers playoff game I've watched, and he did it much more often in the regular season.

Nothing you said disproved what I said. I simply said that he doesn't always blow the zone and leave Draisaitl with all the responsibility. He does it when he recognizes the opportunity to, but far more often than not he is down low or trying to pressure the puck carrier. They play hybrid centre responsibilities because it gives much more flexibility in transition, not because McDavid can't handle the duties himself.

 

[Jabba11]

Why are you arguing semantics man ? McDavids first playoffs he put up 4 points in 6 on San Jose ...what did Crosby drop on the Sharks in his 10th season in the finals.....a meagre 4 assists. Get over it. McDavids performance agaist the sharks was on par with Crosbys..and guess what McDavid and co beat the sharks on 6 too........guess where Sydney led the pens in his first playoffs.....on the golf course after 4 games.

You know what's more incredible. You actually know facts.

Crosby's pathetic point total against the Sharks and last year's entire playoff run actually gave him the Conn Smythe trophy. 19 points in 24 games...under PPG.

That's more incredible than putting up 50 points in 16 playoffs and winning the cup. It shows that hockey is beyond offensive stats. Crosby actually blocked shots like a furious man to win him that 2nd cup.

You know your facts. I'm happy!

OK...50 pts in 16 playoffs games is amazing too.. but Crosby's last year Conn Smythe is no joke.

 

[BakedYams]

Are you just stat watching or actually watching them play? Look at McDavid in the playoffs when Draisaitl was taken off. Explains a **** load there buddy.

McDavid had the same amount of points against the Sharks as Crosby in the same amount of games. There are better arguments, this is a weak one.

 

[ARoggy94]

Karlsson...drafted 15th overall in 2008.

For what he brings to his team since his draft is pretty much out of this world.

Is he better than Crosby and McDavid? Value wise, for the position he got picked(if we take imagine it like the NFL where the rank actually impacts the cap) then, YES he is better than Crosby and McDavid.

But hockey player wise... it's so unfair to compare different positions. I'm staying neutral in this one haha

Karlsson is special. From a 5ft11 165lbs 15th overall pick, to become of the best defenseman of his draft...is insane. Who would have thought of that.

It would be like Mark Jankowski of the Falmes becoming a Hart orArt Ross trophy winner for multiple years.

Become the best defencemen in his draft.. ok.. he's the best defencemen in the league and probably the best player too of course hes the best defencemen in his draft

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Matthews is a teenager who just played his rookie season and smashed every record. Let the kid develop... and when he hits beast mode, look out.

You mean every Leafs record? Because some people claimed his rookie season as the best rookie season in the NHL which I mean, its not only false, but hilariously biased and narrow minded.

 

[McFlash]

You know what's more incredible. You actually know facts.

Crosby's pathetic point total against the Sharks and last year's entire playoff run actually gave him the Conn Smythe trophy. 19 points in 24 games...under PPG.

That's more incredible than putting up 50 points in 16 playoffs and winning the cup. It shows that hockey is beyond offensive stats. Crosby actually blocked shots like a furious man to win him that 2nd cup.

You know your facts. I'm happy!

Thx !

 

[Jabba11]

Become the best defencemen in his draft.. ok.. he's the best defencemen in the league and probably the best player too of course hes the best defencemen in his draft

Sorry I've forgot about Drew. I knew I've forgot someone reallly important.

They're both incredible defenceman. The 2 best of their draft. But Karlsson wasn't supposed to become that good.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

McDavid had the same amount of points against the Sharks as Crosby in the same amount of games. There are better arguments, this is a weak one.

So yeah, basically stat watching. Why not just admit that and get on with it. Also if you're seriously comparing that Sharks team to the one that made it to the finals, you're more out to lunch than I thought.

I get it. Leon Draisaitl is a bum when it's about McDavid's points, but when it's about Leon Draisaitl, he's a fantastic player. It's hilarious with you guys. Throw one player under the bus to fit your narrative of "OH EM GEE, MCJESUS!"

No one hates McDavid, what's hated is the notion that he's doing it all on his lonesome when in reality, he doesn't get those 100pts without Leon being on his wing, you think he seriously gets those 100pts without him? I get the notion that most of you guys think so which is I mean...wow.

 

[Jabba11]

So yeah, basically stat watching. Why not just admit that and get on with it. Also if you're seriously comparing that Sharks team to the one that made it to the finals, you're more out to lunch than I thought.

I get it. Leon Draisaitl is a bum when it's about McDavid's points, but when it's about Leon Draisaitl, he's a fantastic player. It's hilarious with you guys. Throw one player under the bus to fit your narrative of "OH EM GEE, MCJESUS!"

No one hates McDavid, what's hated is the notion that he's doing it all on his lonesome when in reality, he doesn't get those 100pts without Leon being on his wing, you think he seriously gets those 100pts without him? I get the notion that most of you guys think so which is I mean...wow.

If only Crosby had someone of Leon Draisaitl's talent on his wing since his 1st year. The Stats watchers would drool over Crosby. Even the ones in Edmonton.

 

[Connor]

They're never going to overtake peak Crosby, that guy's one of the top 5 or 6 greatest ever I'd think.

Peak Crosby is supposedly the best he's ever been this year...

McDavid eclipsed Crosby THIS YEAR

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

McDavid had the same amount of points against the Sharks as Crosby in the same amount of games. There are better arguments, this is a weak one.

This is where I think context and non-stat watching needs to be applied. Crosby dominated that series possession-wise, McDavid did not dominate the last series versus the Sharks.

Also, Crosby matched up against a healthy Joe Thornton and a Couture who was likely the Conn Smythe winner if the Sharks won. McDavid matched up against a Joe Thornton with a blown out knee and a Couture with a broken face who could barely breath most of the time.

This kind of thing irks me more so because when any other player puts up ridiculously good possession numbers, they're HF darlings. Bergeron, Toews, and Kopitar are among the front runners in this regards. But when Crosby dominates possession and basically shuts down the Sharks, it's "meh, he only had 4 assists".

 

[Future GOAT]

So yeah, basically stat watching. Why not just admit that and get on with it. Also if you're seriously comparing that Sharks team to the one that made it to the finals, you're more out to lunch than I thought.

I get it. Leon Draisaitl is a bum when it's about McDavid's points, but when it's about Leon Draisaitl, he's a fantastic player. It's hilarious with you guys. Throw one player under the bus to fit your narrative of "OH EM GEE, MCJESUS!"

No one hates McDavid, what's hated is the notion that he's doing it all on his lonesome when in reality, he doesn't get those 100pts without Leon being on his wing, you think he seriously gets those 100pts without him? I get the notion that most of you guys think so which is I mean...wow.

Actually McDavid did pretty good while not having Drai on his line. Someone already did the math on these boards, it was extrapolated that McDavid would have had 3 less points if he wasn't playing with Drai, going by his "with him and without him" totals, something like that. I'm not sure how Drai fares without McDavid, afaik no one looked into it. While this may or may not have ended up the case if they were on two separate lines for the entire season, it's evidence that supports that McDavid doesn't need Drai to rack up these kinds of point totals.

 

[Creativero]

If McDavid is just entering his prime and looks about as good as Crosby who is just leaving his prime, why then can't McDavid be better than Crosby?

I think you have to judge Crosby by the playoffs at this point. It's an excuse for sure, but look at the expression on his face after a normal regular season goal now compared to when he was 20. He's not not going to slid into the boards feet first to score a non-essential like he would back then but he's still got all the tools. If you could have Crosby or McDavid for 1 playoff series I think most if not all GMs would take Crosby this year even if McDavid possibly gives you a little more offense.

 

[Jabba11]

This is where I think context and non-stat watching needs to be applied. Crosby dominated that series possession-wise, McDavid did not dominate the last series versus the Sharks.

Also, Crosby matched up against a healthy Joe Thornton and a Couture who was likely the Conn Smythe winner if the Sharks won. McDavid matched up against a Joe Thornton with a blown out knee and a Couture with a broken face who could barely breath most of the time.

This kind of thing irks me more so because when any other player puts up ridiculously good possession numbers, they're HF darlings. Bergeron, Toews, and Kopitar are among the front runners in this regards. But when Crosby dominates possession and basically shuts down the Sharks, it's "meh, he only had 4 assists".

People love stats. IIRC, possession numbers and blocked shots are still numbers right?

Probably not the numbers that impress people...sorry "fans".

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Become the best defencemen in his draft.. ok.. he's the best defencemen in the league and probably the best player too of course hes the best defencemen in his draft

No Drew Doughty is the best defenceman from Karlsson's draft year.

 

[swiftwin]

No Drew Doughty is the best defenceman from Karlsson's draft year.

 

[Son Goku]

Peak Crosby is supposedly the best he's ever been this year...

McDavid eclipsed Crosby THIS YEAR

Lol you think this is Crosby's peak year?

 

[lawrence]

Why is Mathews put into the same sentence of Mcdavid and Crosby? Please don't tell me you guys think Mathews is close to McDavid.....

 

[Jabba11]

Lol you think this is Crosby's peak year?

Crosby peaked when he was in Bantam.

Ever since, he's been in the downfall.

In the 2000-01 season while playing for the Cole Harbour Red Wings bantam AAA team, Crosby scored 86 goals and 96 assists for 182 points in 63 games.

 

[BakedYams]

So yeah, basically stat watching. Why not just admit that and get on with it. Also if you're seriously comparing that Sharks team to the one that made it to the finals, you're more out to lunch than I thought.

I get it. Leon Draisaitl is a bum when it's about McDavid's points, but when it's about Leon Draisaitl, he's a fantastic player. It's hilarious with you guys. Throw one player under the bus to fit your narrative of "OH EM GEE, MCJESUS!"

No one hates McDavid, what's hated is the notion that he's doing it all on his lonesome when in reality, he doesn't get those 100pts without Leon being on his wing, you think he seriously gets those 100pts without him? I get the notion that most of you guys think so which is I mean...wow.

Calm down buddy. Don't understand why you're so upset that people think McDavid did alright by himself in the first round for his first time in the playoffs. Even just the fact he was on the ice taking all the attention from their best defensemen had value. He created plenty of chances himself and was pretty damn good defensively most of the time. But sure, he's nothing without Draisatl all of a sudden.

I'm not the one saying he's better than Crosby for the record.

This is where I think context and non-stat watching needs to be applied. Crosby dominated that series possession-wise, McDavid did not dominate the last series versus the Sharks.

Also, Crosby matched up against a healthy Joe Thornton and a Couture who was likely the Conn Smythe winner if the Sharks won. McDavid matched up against a Joe Thornton with a blown out knee and a Couture with a broken face who could barely breath most of the time.

This kind of thing irks me more so because when any other player puts up ridiculously good possession numbers, they're HF darlings. Bergeron, Toews, and Kopitar are among the front runners in this regards. But when Crosby dominates possession and basically shuts down the Sharks, it's "meh, he only had 4 assists".

As I said above, McDavid more than held his own for his first time in the playoffs against some of the best defensive shutdown D in the league. I wasn't minimizing Crosby's production, only pointing out that production isn't everything in regards to players like Connor and Sid in important games. It goes both ways. That's why I said it's not the best argument to make. Apparently I didn't do a good enough job of trying to illustrate that, but this is HF so...

 

[KingKhron]

What is there to say about this other than it's too early? Didn't Crosby win the Art Ross in his second year but lose in the first round while getting 5 points in 5 games? Don't really see the difference at this point. Matthews had a hell of a series in his rookie year. Just pointless conjecture at this point.

 

[Sun God Nika]

one of the names in the thread title doesn't belong.