McDavid’s performance over the past 500 games

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Is this another "downplay McDavid's accomplishments" thread? You can't do that while simultaneously saying the Oilers are poorly run (which they are).

 

[BlueAzN]

Connor McDonald is legit

 

[Casper The Soy Ghost]

He's aight.

He's no Tanner Glass.

 

[Praetorian Caps]

Yep he's something special.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

PDO

 

[Holkoun]

Nah Crosby would never be considered behind Jagr for second best penguin. Crosby just played his 1300th game and they're practically identical through that point with 1625 points for Jagr and 1622 for Crosby. Only reason Crosby doesn't have 4-5 art rosses himself is some ill timed missed games in seasons he was dominating. Doesn't diminish his actual level of play. Despite that he still has 2 richards, 2 conn smythes, and 1 hart on him. And that's not even getting into attitude issues that Jagr had towards the end of his time with the penguins.

Jagr literally saved Penguins in Pitt and made possible to bring to Pittsburgh players like Crosby and subsequently other Stanley cups. So by all means Jagr deserves to be perceived as the 2nd greatest Penguin of all time.

 

[WalterLundy]

Jagr literally saved Penguins in Pitt and made possible to bring to Pittsburgh players like Crosby and subsequently other Stanley cups. So by all means Jagr deserves to be perceived as the 2nd greatest Penguin of all time.

He did and he reached a higher peak/prime level of play than Crosby. With all of that said though I think Crosby’s overall 20 years definitely surpasses Jagr’s pens career. At his best he is definitely the second best penguin ever though if you are just talking peak.

 

[Midnight Judges]

You’re mistaken. What I’ve repeatedly expressed is my disdain for using flawed adjusted statistics as a core fact in arguments, as if the projected fabricated numbers really happened, i.e. when some pretend Crosby scored 130-140 points each season during the 2010-2011 through 2012-2013 timeframe, or that 104 points in 2013-2014 comes anywhere close to 153 points in 2022-2023.

You are sort of commingling extrapolations (coulda, woulda, shoulda) with adjusted stats (evaluating actual contributions while accounting for scoring environment differences). This is basically apples to apples within the 82 game era.

Yeah I agree that there is a large contingent of fans - frequently Lemieux, Crosby, Bossy, and Orr supporters - who feel the need to extend the contributions of their favorite players and paper over the deficiencies. And so you have a thousand "what if" threads created by people who want to substitute the conversation of what actually happened with a conversation about what they wish would have happened. PPG becomes the focus as opposed to points actually scored. Then over time the 'wish' discussion somehow takes hold over the actual one.

 

[Score08]

The CMD boner thread.

 

[Holkoun]

He did and he reached a higher peak/prime level of play than Crosby. With all of that said though I think Crosby’s overall 20 years definitely surpasses Jagr’s pens career. At his best he is definitely the second best penguin ever though if you are just talking peak.

Crosby has most points in pens jersey, so in this term he is real no.1. But is he greatest or 2nd greatest…? nope there are Mario and Mario jr. there. Actually If you apply this way of thinking you would have must say that Crosby is the 1st penguin ever. If you say that - ok. But if you say Mario is no.1 then no.2 is Jagr

 

[DitchMarner]

You are sort of commingling extrapolations (coulda, woulda, shoulda) with adjusted stats (evaluating actual contributions while accounting for scoring environment differences). This is basically apples to apples within the 82 game era.

Yeah I agree that there is a large contingent of fans - frequently Lemieux, Crosby, Bossy, and Orr supporters - who feel the need to extend the contributions of their favorite players and paper over the deficiencies. And so you have a thousand "what if" threads created by people who want to substitute the conversation of what actually happened with a conversation about what they wish would have happened. PPG becomes the focus as opposed to points actually scored. Then over time the 'wish' discussion somehow takes hold over the actual one.

I think he may be referring to when someone posts a PPG table comparing Crosby and McDavid and says, "oh, look, their adjusted PPG averages aren't that far off through X number of years." Of course, in this case, Crosby's averages over small samples are extrapolated to full seasons (so he gets 82 games worth of credit for what he did in 41 and 22 games in terms of adjusted PPG whereas full McDavid seasons are used in the comparison).

But this isn't so much an adjusted points problem as it is a problem of projecting and acting as if projections are equal in meaning and value to actual occurrences.

 

[WalterLundy]

Crosby has most points in pens jersey, so in this term he is real no.1. But is he greatest or 2nd greatest…? nope there are Mario and Mario jr. there. Actually If you apply this way of thinking you would have must say that Crosby is the 1st penguin ever. If you say that - ok. But if you say Mario is no.1 then no.2 is Jagr

Crosby has 88 less points than Lemieux while playing 393 more games. Jagr’s best seasons as a penguin are better than Crosby’s best. That’s what I was referring to.

 

[gritdash60]

ELITE

 

[koyvoo]

Biases aside, he’s very clearly the best player since Lemieux. I’ve watched since the mid 80’s

 

[Spirits]

Zero cups. That’s the only thing that matters here.

McCupless.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lol crosby is easily the 2nd greatest penguin of all time. Jagr doesnt come close.