McDavid’s performance over the past 500 games

[Luigi Lemieux]

But yet nobody is saying he is going to surpass mario, wayne or even bobby. Those 3 most likely stay in those positions until someone is able to surpass Gretzky. But he is easily on pace for that 4th spot. Which is usually held by 1 of 3 players, howe, messier, jagr.

As of today, if he were to stop playing i would personally put him in the top 20.

5 art ross trophies (tied for 3rd most).
3 hart trophies (tied for 3rd most).
4 ted lindsay trophies (2nd most).

Messier is closer to #20, not sure how you're getting #4. Haven't seen Howe play so have to defer to the elders, seems he's pretty locked into the big 4.

 

[WalterLundy]

How has he not seperated himself from the pack? He is 95th all time in points, the only active players above him are tavares (who mcdavid will pass by the end of the season), giroux (who he will most likely pass by the end of the season), stamkos, kopitar, malkin, kane, crosby, ovechkin. Everything those players above him have are 10 years more in the league.

Of his peers in which he entered the league with or around, there is nobody close to him. Next closest active player is marchand 64 points back, then mack at 74 points back.

No matter what stat you use, those players full careers which started 2 years earlier then mcdavids or the stats since mcdavid entered the league. There is a massive gap between the 3.

To add, since mcdavid entered the league he has a 142 point lead over the next closest player, which is Draisaitl. Then mack 179 points back. Then kuch 193 points back.

For this to be a battle, then mcdavid would need to miss an entire season just for those players to get within striking distance. And some of them it would need to be a season and a half.

And about the not doing enough yet to be placed in the top 4, well obviously as he hasn't even played 1000 games yet. But he is well above his competition and is pacing to be the 2nd player in nhl history to reach 2000 points. And he is on pace to only do that in 1300 games. 100+ games less then gretzky played, 400 less then jagr,

You can look at his current games played compared to the other best point producers of his crop and the one before his (but all still playing now). He slaughters everyone at the same games played stage.

 

[Dingo]

McDavid is as good as it gets, imo.
I'd take this moment to mention that Kucherov and MacKinnon, in your time frame, are not too far behind on a per game basis, and have been exceptional in the playoffs as well.

I say this because I put McDavid right there with Gretzky and Lemieux, and these relatively small gaps make me consider Kuch and Mack to be superior to the players Wayne and Mario were lapping.

 

[WalterLundy]

He's clearly been the best the last 7 or so years and is on a trajectory to be #5 all time but to reach Gretzky or Lemieux class the separation needs to be higher. Lemieux would never be outscored by Draisaitl, Kucherov or Mackinnon.

We already know how dominant Gretzky was in his prime, but this is the ppg separation Lemieux had during his prime, 87-88 to 95-96.

1. Lemieux 2.26
2. Gretzky 1.75
3. Lindros 1.46
4. Yzerman 1.45
5. Lafontaine 1.34

as great as McDavid is, he's not at this level of dominance.

To be fair only Gretzky exceeded that level of dominance but agreed. I didn’t get to see Howe either but I think when you consider all things he will be 4th since the expansion and a clear 5th with definite separation from the 6-10 guys all time when it’s said and done. He just needs a Stanley cup and I believe it will come as he has everything else that a big 4-5 guy would need.

Lemieux if he played a full season in this scoring environment would never lose a Ross race to Kucherov, MacKinnon or Draisaitl caliber player however he would be vulnerable to those guys in their peak seasons if he played 70 games or less. I don’t disagree with you but those three as competition at their peaks is pretty steep.

 

[cupface52]

He's clearly been the best the last 7 or so years and is on a trajectory to be #5 all time but to reach Gretzky or Lemieux class the separation needs to be higher. Lemieux would never be outscored by Draisaitl, Kucherov or Mackinnon.

We already know how dominant Gretzky was in his prime, but this is the ppg separation Lemieux had during his prime, 87-88 to 95-96.

1. Lemieux 2.26
2. Gretzky 1.75
3. Lindros 1.46
4. Yzerman 1.45
5. Lafontaine 1.34

as great as McDavid is, he's not at this level of dominance.

Lemieux is not in Gretzky's class, no one is. Longevity and health is extremely important for a player's career, there's a reason why most consider Howe #2 behind Gretzky.

Excluding his rookie year, top 3, McDavid has finished, 5x first, 2x second, 1x third, never finishing lower than 3rd. He's only in the middle of his prime, and he'll likely still be the best player for a few years outside his prime.

Compared to Lemieux, 6x first, 1x second.

 

[authentic]

But yet nobody is saying he is going to surpass mario, wayne or even bobby. Those 3 most likely stay in those positions until someone is able to surpass Gretzky. But he is easily on pace for that 4th spot. Which is usually held by 1 of 3 players, howe, messier, jagr.

As of today, if he were to stop playing i would personally put him in the top 20.

5 art ross trophies (tied for 3rd most).
3 hart trophies (tied for 3rd most).
4 ted lindsay trophies (2nd most).

The 4th spot has been locked down by Howe since Lemieux’s career first ended, some even have him as high as 2nd. As far as I know I have never heard someone make a case for Jagr at 4th and certainly not Messier who would be hard pressed to crack a top 10 list. But to your point about McDavid I agree he is easily on pace to end up top 5 if not top 4 by the time his career comes to a close and if judging strictly by peak I already have him ahead of Howe anyway.

 

[authentic]

McDavid is as good as it gets, imo.
I'd take this moment to mention that Kucherov and MacKinnon, in your time frame, are not too far behind on a per game basis, and have been exceptional in the playoffs as well.

I say this because I put McDavid right there with Gretzky and Lemieux, and these relatively small gaps make me consider Kuch and Mack to be superior to the players Wayne and Mario were lapping.

Look at McDavid’s PPG dominance over Kucherov and MacKinnon in the playoffs, 1.76 to 1.27 and 1.24, which just adds to your point.

 

[ghostingtaro]

im thinking this guy was a steal in the 2015 nhl draft

 

[GreeningOil]

Has he actually exceeded them? When he was entering the league, I wasn't expecting him to compete equally with players like Kucherov and MacKinnon for scoring titles. There have been maybe 2 dominant seasons or so. Otherwise, he's been rather evenly matched with the top scorers, though more consistent than them.

Someone who's exceeded expectations is Draisaitl. McDavid? I don't think so.

Did you not see the part where he scored 139 more points that Mack over that time?

im thinking this guy was a steal in the 2015 nhl draft

Should have been 0th overall

 

[authentic]

McDavid is as good as it gets, imo.
I'd take this moment to mention that Kucherov and MacKinnon, in your time frame, are not too far behind on a per game basis, and have been exceptional in the playoffs as well.

I say this because I put McDavid right there with Gretzky and Lemieux, and these relatively small gaps make me consider Kuch and Mack to be superior to the players Wayne and Mario were lapping.

Once thing I’ve noticed about McDavid, much like Gretzky and Lemieux, is how easy everything looks for him. You see players like Ovechkin, Crosby and MacKinnon who are absolute machines but look like they have to give 110% to dominate anywhere close to what McDavid does without looking like he’s breaking a sweat. I wonder if there is a correlation here and if a player like Howe was like this back in the day, Gretzky made the game look so easy it’s hard to believe he managed to be the best playing the way he did let alone the most dominant player of all-time. I think Jagr has this quality as well to a slightly lesser extent.

 

[Barrie22]

The 4th spot has been locked down by Howe since Lemieux’s career first ended, some even have him as high as 2nd. As far as I know I have never heard someone make a case for Jagr at 4th and certainly not Messier who would be hard pressed to crack a top 10 list. But to your point about McDavid I agree he is easily on pace to end up top 5 if not top 4 by the time his career comes to a close and if judging strictly by peak I already have him ahead of Howe anyway.

There was a top 100 list created in 2015 by hockeyfanatics that had lemieux at 12th lol. And no thats not the list i used to say that those 3 are seen as the 4th spot lol. Just a few had howe, messier between 2-5 and i would add jagr into the top 5 myself.

 

[SI90]

He really is absurd

 

[crowfish]

Once thing I’ve noticed about McDavid, much like Gretzky and Lemieux, is how easy everything looks for him. You see players like Ovechkin, Crosby and MacKinnon who are absolute machines but look like they have to give 110% to dominate anywhere close to what McDavid does without looking like he’s breaking a sweat. I wonder if there is a correlation here and if a player like Howe was like this back in the day, Gretzky made the game look so easy it’s hard to believe he managed to be the best playing the way he did let alone the most dominant player of all-time. I think Jagr has this quality as well to a slightly lesser extent.

His highlight reel goal against the Rangers a few weeks ago was a good example of this.

He nonchalantly walks in on a 2-1 with his entire mindset on how he can get Nugent-Hopkins a tap in goal. Once it becomes clear that he has no passing option he decides to score with a nice move. He was playing with his food like a Lion that captured his prey and was bored.

 

[SuperScript29]

I think last year's finals really took a lot out of him and it showed earlier in the season. Now that he's back in the groove I expect him to take the lead in the next few games.

 

[Felidae]

You can look at his current games played compared to the other best point producers of his crop and the one before his (but all still playing now). He slaughters everyone at the same games played stage.

This is pretty misleading since Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin played a bulk of those games in a significantly lower scoring era (early to mid 2010s)

And honestly, most of their GP dont reach the high scoring levels of the last 2-3 seasons, with the exception of 2005.

Not saying McDavid isn't the best player since Lemieux, not really here to argue that... but the level of seperation between him, Crosby and Ovechkin is not as wide as the raw stats you posted indicate.

 

[authentic]

His highlight reel goal against the Rangers a few weeks ago was a good example of this.

He nonchalantly walks in on a 2-1 with his entire mindset on how he can get Nugent-Hopkins a tap in goal. Once it becomes clear that he has no passing option he decides to score with a nice move. He was playing with his food like a Lion that captured his prey and was bored.

I didn’t see this yet I’ll have to check it out, but the one where he dekes the entire NYR team then the goalie was just jaw dropping.

 

[BlueSeal]

Look at McDavid’s PPG dominance over Kucherov and MacKinnon in the playoffs, 1.76 to 1.27 and 1.24, which just adds to your point.

And yet no Cups, so what does that all mean?

 

[crowfish]

And yet no Cups, so what does that all mean?

It means that hockey is a team sport, where 1 player can be better than the others (McDavid), but not necessarily win a 32-team winner take all tournament. Which is why I could name far worse players than Kucherov & MacKinnon who have won more Stanley Cups.

Is it really a tough concept to understand?

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

And yet no Cups, so what does that all mean?

Bad management. Hockey is a team sport. The oilers might not win a cup with the two best playoff performers of their generation

 

[Soundwave]

He might have a career in this whole iced hockey thing. Maybe even professionally.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Somehow someone will still claim MacKinnon is better and that none of this matters because the Oilers don’t have a cup

 

[333359]

Look at McDavid’s PPG dominance over Kucherov and MacKinnon in the playoffs, 1.76 to 1.27 and 1.24, which just adds to your point.

To be fair those guys are around when it counts and have Cups. McDavid had his chance and blew it. No show in game 7. Don't think MacKinnon would choke like that.

 

[cupface52]

This is pretty misleading since Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin played a bulk of those games in a significantly lower scoring era (early to mid 2010s)

And honestly, most of their GP dont reach the high scoring levels of the last 2-3 seasons, with the exception of 2005.

Not saying McDavid isn't the best player since Lemieux, not really here to argue that... but the level of seperation between him, Crosby and Ovechkin is not as wide as the raw stats you posted indicate.

Over the previous 8 full sessons;

McDavid - 934 points in 600 games.

The combined totals of the top scorer(excluding McDavid) in each of those seasons. - 900 points in 609 games.

The closest any of them is to that sort of dominance is Ovechkin from the the '08-'10 seasons, and that's for only 3 seasons.

Ovechkin - 331 points in 233 games.
Others combined - 331 points in 246 games

There is quite a lot of sepperation between McDavid and Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Zero cups. That’s the only thing that matters here.

 

[Felidae]

Over the previous 8 full sessons;

McDavid - 934 points in 600 games.

The combined totals of the top scorer(excluding McDavid) in each of those seasons. - 900 points in 609 games.

The closest any of them is to that sort of dominance is Ovechkin from the the '08-'10 seasons, and that's for only 3 seasons.

Ovechkin - 331 points in 233 games.
Others combined - 331 points in 246 games

There is quite a lot of sepperation between McDavid and Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin.

You're still comparing raw stats across noticeably different scoring environments..

I mean, just comparing last year to 2008 (the highest scoring year among the Ovechkin stretch you picked). 2023-24 had a goal average of 3.11. there were 9 100 point scorers, 8 90 point scorers.

2008 had a 2.91 goal average with 3 100 point scorers, 4 90 point scorers. That's a significant difference.

Imo a more accurate way is to compare how each player's best stretch separated themselves from their competition.

I'm pretty sure McDavid still wins in that regard, but not to the same degree that comparing raw stats would show.