Matthews,Marner,Woll vs Stutzle,Tkachuk,Ullmark

[K1900L]

Matthews > Stützle
Marner < Tkachuk
Woll < Ullmark

1. Matthews
2. Stützle
3. Tkachuk
4. Marner
5. Ullmark
6. Woll

But I could easily see why someone would rank Marner above of Tkachuk, which would change the outcome in Toronto's favor.

 

[SensontheRush]

So healthy Stu is worse than healthy Matthews and Injured Stu is worse than injured Matthews.

Healthy Stu is maybe marginally better offensively than injured Matthews but he also still finished in the top 15 in Selke voting during his down season (Stutzle 0 votes, his teammate had Giroux one 5th place vote).

I think we can take votes from the non-objective Hockey Mecca media body with a grain of salt here.

And like the other poster said... Stu is five years younger!

 

[John Mandalorian]

I like to shit on Nostrils as Much as the next Guy, but he's an whole tier better than the second best player in this thread, who happens to be Marner

So, with puke in my mouth, I voted for the Leafs

You should lay on your stomach.

 

[Bouboumaster]

You should lay on your stomach.

I went to the toilet, and rinse it all out with a good ol' playoffs 2020-2021

 

[Namikaze Minato]

I think we can take votes from the non-objective Hockey Mecca media body with a grain of salt here.

And like the other poster said... Stu is five years younger!

Ah yes, the Toronto Hockey media that has forced Leafs players to win all the major trophies with their bias.

Who was the last Selke winner for Toronto again?

Stutzle was 20 and 21 years old in the seasons you are talking about.

And he is 22 now. This thread is "Matthews Marner and Woll vs Stu, Tkachuk and Ullmark who is the better trio" not "Will prime Stutzle be as good as Matthews?" or "How do Stutzle's 20 and 21 year old seasons compare to Matthews'?"

The threadline I was replying to was about how Stutzle's best season to date lined up with Matthews injured season and "what if that happens again?"
Nothing happens, Matthews was still better than Stutzle in that season as an overall player and again helped his team make the playoffs, which he has never missed.

Healthy Stu finished ahead of injured Matthews while he was still on his ELC.

Yes, what do you believe this is adding that wasn't already known?

 

[Seras]

I think they only do 3v3 in OT, never seen 2v2 tho

 

[Peasy]

Well I know which 3 will be making the playoffs and which 3 will be missing the playoffs once again.

 

[Xspyrit]

And he is 22 now. This thread is "Matthews Marner and Woll vs Stu, Tkachuk and Ullmark who is the better trio" not "Will prime Stutzle be as good as Matthews?" or "How do Stutzle's 20 and 21 year old seasons compare to Matthews'?"

You said "Healthy Stu is maybe marginally better offensively than injured Matthews"

You are making a statement as if age wouldn't matter, hence why I specified it to you. Unless you think players peak at 20-21?

It seems that Matthews entered his prime around 23-24 y/o so we don't have the empirical evidence necessary to properly compare yet...

The threadline I was replying to was about how Stutzle's best season to date lined up with Matthews injured season and "what if that happens again?" Nothing happens, Matthews was still better than Stutzle in that season as an overall player and again helped his team make the playoffs, which he has never missed.

Which is still impossible to compare as Stutzle most likely hasn't entered his prime yet. Unless Stutzle doesn't have this privilege like many players had? (Matthews, Nylander, MacKinnon to name a few)

Nothing happens, Matthews was still better than Stutzle in that season as an overall player and again helped his team make the playoffs, which he has never missed.

Toronto did not make the playoffs in 2020

 

[34]

This is not even close. Toronto wins easily.

 

[Joe n]

Ah yes, the Toronto Hockey media that has forced Leafs players to win all the major trophies with their bias.

Who was the last Selke winner for Toronto again?

And he is 22 now. This thread is "Matthews Marner and Woll vs Stu, Tkachuk and Ullmark who is the better trio" not "Will prime Stutzle be as good as Matthews?" or "How do Stutzle's 20 and 21 year old seasons compare to Matthews'?"

The threadline I was replying to was about how Stutzle's best season to date lined up with Matthews injured season and "what if that happens again?"
Nothing happens, Matthews was still better than Stutzle in that season as an overall player and again helped his team make the playoffs, which he has never missed.

Yes, what do you believe this is adding that wasn't already known?

Stutzle has had a higher ppg than Matthews worst ppg season (his rookie year) once. He will improve but he will never be as good as Matthews. Even less so if he starts to play a more all around game.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

You said "Healthy Stu is maybe marginally better offensively than injured Matthews"

You are making a statement as if age wouldn't matter, hence why I specified it to you. Unless you think players peak at 20-21?

It seems that Matthews entered his prime around 23-24 y/o so we don't have the empirical evidence necessary to properly compare yet...

Right but I'm comparing who they are right now and Stutzle might be in his prime, before his prime or even played the best hockey he ever will, we don't know. Barzals best offensive season was his rookie season and it took him another 5 seasons to get back to a PPG, Hyman was a consistent player through what would be considered his prime and suddenly had his best offensive seasons in his 30s.

There are no set paths for players best years but there is pretty blatant evidence that today Matthews is better at hockey than Stutzle in almost every way.

Which is still impossible to compare as Stutzle most likely hasn't entered his prime yet. Unless Stutzle doesn't have this privilege like many players had? (Matthews, Nylander, MacKinnon to name a few) by

Most likely is before his prime, sure. Is this year going to be his prime then? If so, I'm sure most of the hockey world would still pick AM34 coming off a 69 goal season over a potential 1C coming off a 70 point season.

How many seasons until he is better than Auston?

Toronto did not make the playoffs in 2020

Weird, I see maple leafs players with games played and statistics for the playoffs in 2020 but when I look at the Ottawa Senators, who missed the playoffs, I still don't see any playoff statistics.

Maybe because one team played playoff games and the other one couldn't even get into the playoffs with the help of a worldwide pandemic extending the amount of playoff teams.

But you're probably right, this is the Senators year to finally make the playoffs and hopefully play against Toronto in the first round. God knows we need the free pass, which is what your favourite franchise has always been to us.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Stutzle has had a higher ppg than Matthews worst ppg season (his rookie year) once. He will improve but he will never be as good as Matthews. Even less so if he starts to play a more all around game.

That’s indeed bold. Stützle has a ton of potential. It would not be surprising if he’s also an elite player

 

[Golden_Jet]

Stutzle has had a higher ppg than Matthews worst ppg season (his rookie year) once. He will improve but he will never be as good as Matthews. Even less so if he starts to play a more all around game.

False, Stutzle best season is higher than 4 of Matthew’s years, and tied another one, if you want to use pace.

Unless you’re trying to say something different.

 

[Fatass]

Marner and Matthews lead their club consistently to the playoffs and are two of the best players in the league. Not too sure how anyone could justify voting for the two Ottawa guys who have never reached the playoffs.

 

[Joe n]

False, Stutzle best season is higher than 4 of Matthew’s years, and tied another one, if you want to use pace.

Unless you’re trying to say something different.

learn to read. I said he only had 1 season. 1. All the other were worse than Matthews worst year which happened to be his rookie year.

 

[Golden_Jet]

learn to read. I said he only had 1 season. 1. All the other were worse than Matthews worst year which happened to be his rookie year.

that one season was as good as or better than 5 of Matthew’s seasons, using your pace factor.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

If we are talking on ice play only (no contracts) I'll take the one with Matthews. Even with contracts, overall I will take the Leafs but really it's because of the gap between Matthews and everyone else with the on ice production. Prefer Brady and Ullmark to Marner and Woll

 

[MCR74]

Marner and Matthews lead their club consistently to the playoffs and are two of the best players in the league. Not too sure how anyone could justify voting for the two Ottawa guys who have never reached the playoffs.

lt's HF.

 

[Xspyrit]

Right but I'm comparing who they are right now and Stutzle might be in his prime, before his prime or even played the best hockey he ever will, we don't know. Barzals best offensive season was his rookie season and it took him another 5 seasons to get back to a PPG, Hyman was a consistent player through what would be considered his prime and suddenly had his best offensive seasons in his 30s.

There are no set paths for players best years but there is pretty blatant evidence that today Matthews is better at hockey than Stutzle in almost every way.

ok so it's better to look at exceptions and not the norm? I wouldn't be to take seriously anyone who followed Stu's career and tell me he probably reached his peak in his 21 y/o season. I am not saying it's not possible because injuries have derailed a lot of careers but people who watched him know how RAW he was, despite putting 90 pts at 20 y/o

Most likely is before his prime, sure. Is this year going to be his prime then? If so, I'm sure most of the hockey world would still pick AM34 coming off a 69 goal season over a potential 1C coming off a 70 point season.

How many seasons until he is better than Auston?

Not sure why some still miss the point after all this time, I mean it's pretty meat & potatoes point. Nobody (or almost?) has ever said that Stutzle was better or going to be better. The point WAS that some people don't think Matthews was 5.0 AAV better... He clearly wasn't in 2022-23 but maybe was last season. It's not going to be worth 5 M$ every season. Or maybe you are really underrating Stutzle?

You guys make it seem like we were discussing PHD thesis material.

Weird, I see maple leafs players with games played and statistics for the playoffs in 2020 but when I look at the Ottawa Senators, who missed the playoffs, I still don't see any playoff statistics.

ok cool, so the Leafs making the Qualifying Round (which was before the 1st round) should go in their long recent playoff success history

... and Ottawa was just 2 years after starting an earth scorched rebuild, Stutzle, Sanderson, Greig and Kleven were not even drafted.... Were they supposed to make the playoffs?

But you're probably right, this is the Senators year to finally make the playoffs and hopefully play against Toronto in the first round. God knows we need the free pass, which is what your favourite franchise has always been to us.

Reading this I have 2 questions :

- Are you like, 14?

- You really want to "tempt the hockey Gods" after all that has happened come playoffs time for Toronto? Shouldn't Leafs fans be the MOST HUMBLE sports fans by now?

 

[Lemontree]

ok so it's better to look at exceptions and not the norm? I wouldn't be to take seriously anyone who followed Stu's career and tell me he probably reached his peak in his 21 y/o season. I am not saying it's not possible because injuries have derailed a lot of careers but people who watched him know how RAW he was, despite putting 90 pts at 20 y/o



Not sure why some still miss the point after all this time, I mean it's pretty meat & potatoes point. Nobody (or almost?) has ever said that Stutzle was better or going to be better. The point WAS that some people don't think Matthews was 5.0 AAV better... He clearly wasn't in 2022-23 but maybe was last season. It's not going to be worth 5 M$ every season. Or maybe you are really underrating Stutzle?

You guys make it seem like we were discussing PHD thesis material.



ok cool, so the Leafs making the Qualifying Round (which was before the 1st round) should go in their long recent playoff success history

... and Ottawa was just 2 years after starting an earth scorched rebuild, Stutzle, Sanderson, Greig and Kleven were not even drafted.... Were they supposed to make the playoffs?



Reading this I have 2 questions :

- Are you like, 14?

- You really want to "tempt the hockey Gods" after all that has happened come playoffs time for Toronto? Shouldn't Leafs fans be the MOST HUMBLE sports fans by now?

Is this question being posed by an Ottawa Senators fan?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I really wanna see Ottawa beat Toronto in the first round this year.