Matt Murray- What would you be willing to give up to get rid of him

[ToneDog]

Not much. Shouldn't be too hard to move.

Yeah let's compare the cost to dump one year of Murray to the lousy 3rd and 7th Dubas acquired to take on 2 years of Murray and then let's compare it to the first Dubas gave up to dump Marleau.

It may not be a first but it will be more than a 3rd and 7th.

 

[thewave]

Apparently, he unfollowed everybody on the Leafs on IG or just Leafs organization in general. Not really honed in on this stuff.

All of Dubas antics spell LOSER. Very unprofessional cry baby and excuse maker and ultimately the biggest Snake oil peddler that TML have ever hired.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Cost us a 1st to dump Marleau who was owed $4.25m with a 6.25m cap hit. We owe Murray $6m with a cap hit of $4.7m. Well done Dubas, you fumbled the ball with Marleau and left us Murray.

Marleau was Lou's mess, was a forced 35+ buyout, and was a 6.25m cap hit in a single year. Murray is still a capable player, and even if he was bought out, it would be a 2.68m cap hit (split up over 2 years), and less actual money than Marleau. It shouldn't cost anywhere close to a 1st.

It may not be a first but it will be more than a 3rd and 7th.

Shouldn't be. Dubas already set the standard paying less than that to get rid of a worse, more injured goalie with more term.

 

[ACC1224]

Cost us a 1st to dump Marleau who was owed $4.25m with a 6.25m cap hit. We owe Murray $6m with a cap hit of $4.7m. Well done Dubas, you fumbled the ball with Marleau and left us Murray. Glad Steeltown feels more like home.

View attachment 720686

Hopefully they now have someone competent handling these moves now. Marleau was absolutely brutal but we could give that a pass as a rookie being taken advantage of. You’d think he would have learnt from that but than he bends over for Murray.
Safe to say the team is in much better hands now.

 

[ToDavid]

Cost us a 1st to dump Marleau who was owed $4.25m with a 6.25m cap hit. We owe Murray $6m with a cap hit of $4.7m. Well done Dubas, you fumbled the ball with Marleau and left us Murray. Glad Steeltown feels more like home.

View attachment 720686

Marleau was a unique trade. He was on a 35+ contract that couldn’t be relieved by any means and he refused to play in any other city.

A Murray trade will be more like Mrazek, and probably less costly.

 

[IPS]

Apparently, he unfollowed everybody on the Leafs on IG or just Leafs organization in general. Not really honed in on this stuff.

Legit sounds like something a teenage girl would do.

 

[ToneDog]

Marleau was a unique trade. He was on a 35+ contract that couldn’t be relieved by any means and he refused to play in any other city.

A Murray trade will be more like Mrazek, and probably less costly.

Hopefully the max Murray will cost us is a third or a lower level prospect.

 

[notbias]

Hopefully they now have someone competent handling these moves now. Marleau was absolutely brutal but we could give that a pass as a rookie being taken advantage of. You’d think he would have learnt from that but than he bends over for Murray.
Safe to say the team is in much better hands now.

People who complain about the Marleau deal are just ignoring the context of it.

It was a trade to buy out a player, not a cap dump.

Know what Treliving just paid for a straight-up cap dump (same cap hit) where the player did not need to be bought out and was actually somewhat useful? a 1st.

Hopefully, he has learned, but saying the team is in better hands is hilarious.

 

[bentharbs]

just put him on LTIR. That's so very clearly the answer.

 

[justashadowof]

All of Dubas antics spell LOSER. Very unprofessional cry baby and excuse maker and ultimately the biggest Snake oil peddler that TML have ever hired.

There are definitely J.P. Ricciardi vibes to the expired Kyle Dubas tenure. Ricciardi inherited Carlos Delgado, Vernon Wells, Roy Halladay, Chris Carpenter, Shannon Stewart, Jose Cruz plus prospects like Alex Rios, Dustin McGowan, Gabe Gross, Jayson Werth, Orlando Hudson, Reed Johnson, Chris Woodward, Brandon League, Cesar Izturius, Felipe Lopez, among other valuable prospect trade chips. Ricciardi accomplished nothing never losing an ounce of bravado and totally regressed at the draft with his atrocious draft philosophy of drafting signable average mature NCAA prospects.

 

[andora]

People who complain about the Marleau deal are just ignoring the context of it.

It was a trade to buy out a player, not a cap dump.

Know what Treliving just paid for a straight-up cap dump (same cap hit) where the player did not need to be bought out and was actually somewhat useful? a 1st.

Hopefully, he has learned, but saying the team is in better hands is hilarious.

That's like arguing over the difference between spaghetti and capellini

 

[Mess]

Marleau was a unique trade. He was on a 35+ contract that couldn’t be relieved by any means and he refused to play in any other city.

A Murray trade will be more like Mrazek, and probably less costly.

What you meant to say is Marleau was a completely unnecessary trade that cost the Leafs their 1st (Seth Jarvis), who is now a contributing member of the Canes.

Lets refresh peoples memories here where Lou left off and Dubas took over Summer May 2018.

People forget the Lou Lam 2017-18 Leafs had just set a new All-time record in points 105 and wins 49 with Patty Marleau.

Regular Season

Marleau contributed 27 goals in the regular season. Only JVR, Matthews and Kadri scored more.

PLAYOFFS

Marleau in the playoffs lead a young Leafs in goal scoring 4 goals in 7 games against Boston (the same amount as Marner, Matthews and Nylander combined)

Then Dubas took over !!!!

First move lets sign John Tavares to the highest UFA contract at $11 mil in Salary Cap World.

Tavares signs seven-year contract with Maple Leafs

Center leaves Islanders, gets $77 million, $11 million annually​

July 1, 2018

This is how it all began and lead to the trade of Marleau for Cap reasons.

The Tavares contract, the Marleau trade, the Mrazek signing & trade, the Murray trade, the Kadri trade.

Now our new GM has inherited where he has to find a way to remove Matt Murray and live with the consequences of the mistakes of the past. But comparing the Marleau deal which was a self inflicted wound by Dubas and the now disposal of Murray are not similar comparable situations.. Treliving will likely buyout Murray in order to re-sign Samsonov.

 

[notbias]

What you meant to say is Marleau was a completely unnecessary trade that cost the Leafs their 1st (Seth Jarvis), who is now a contributing member of the Canes.

Lets refresh peoples memories here where Lou left off and Dubas took over Summer May 2018.

People forget the Lou Lam 2017-18 Leafs had just set a new All-time record in points 105 and wins 49 with Patty Marleau.

Regular Season

View attachment 720709

Marleau contributed 27 goals in the regular season. Only JVR, Matthews and Kadri scored more.

View attachment 720715

PLAYOFFS

Marleau in the playoffs lead a young the Leafs in goal scoring 4 goals in 7 games against Boston (the same amount as Marner, Matthews and Nylander combined)

View attachment 720712

Then Dubas took over !!!!

First move lets sign John Tavares to the highest UFA contract at $11 mil in Salary Cap World.

Tavares signs seven-year contract with Maple Leafs

Center leaves Islanders, gets $77 million, $11 million annually​

July 1, 2018

View attachment 720718

This is how it all began and lead to the trade of Marleau for Cap reasons.

The Tavares contract, the Marleau trade, the Mrazek signing & trade, the Murray trade, the Kadri trade.

Now our new GM has inherited where he has to find a way to remove Matt Murray and live with the consequences of the mistakes of the past. But comparing the Marleau deal which was a self inflicted wound by Dubas and the now disposal of Murray are not similar comparable situations.. Treliving will likely buyout Murray in order to re-sign Samsonov.

Can you break down the genius behind the Monahan trade to show us how it is supposed to be done?

 

[Buds17]

People who complain about the Marleau deal are just ignoring the context of it.

It was a trade to buy out a player, not a cap dump.

Know what Treliving just paid for a straight-up cap dump (same cap hit) where the player did not need to be bought out and was actually somewhat useful? a 1st.

Hopefully, he has learned, but saying the team is in better hands is hilarious.

I'd guess that both Dubas and Treliving figured they'd be trading away a playoff team's 1st. We know what transpired with the former's situation, whereas the latter's situation is TBD.

 

[ToDavid]

What you meant to say is Marleau was a completely unnecessary trade that cost the Leafs their 1st (Seth Jarvis), who is now a contributing member of the Canes.

Lets refresh peoples memories here where Lou left off and Dubas took over Summer May 2018.

People forget the Lou Lam 2017-18 Leafs had just set a new All-time record in points 105 and wins 49 with Patty Marleau.

Regular Season

View attachment 720709

Marleau contributed 27 goals in the regular season. Only JVR, Matthews and Kadri scored more.

View attachment 720715

PLAYOFFS

Marleau in the playoffs lead a young Leafs in goal scoring 4 goals in 7 games against Boston (the same amount as Marner, Matthews and Nylander combined)

View attachment 720712

Then Dubas took over !!!!

First move lets sign John Tavares to the highest UFA contract at $11 mil in Salary Cap World.

Tavares signs seven-year contract with Maple Leafs

Center leaves Islanders, gets $77 million, $11 million annually​

July 1, 2018

View attachment 720718

This is how it all began and lead to the trade of Marleau for Cap reasons.

The Tavares contract, the Marleau trade, the Mrazek signing & trade, the Murray trade, the Kadri trade.

Now our new GM has inherited where he has to find a way to remove Matt Murray and live with the consequences of the mistakes of the past. But comparing the Marleau deal which was a self inflicted wound by Dubas and the now disposal of Murray are not similar comparable situations.. Treliving will likely buyout Murray in order to re-sign Samsonov.

You kind of skipped over two important things:

1. Yes, Marleau was good in year 1. Then he fell off a cliff because he was 86 years old. Had he stayed the third year it would have been even worse.

2. It was convenient for Lou that he didn’t have to worry about signing his best players to new contracts. It was beyond obvious that the third year for Marleau was a massive mistake because it overlapped with Matthews and Nylander’s extensions.

Like oh no we had to give up an asset to move geriatric 4th line winger making $6m because we signed a franchise 1C free agent. The horror. Tavares is infinitely less overpaid than Marleau was.

 

[Stephen]

That's like arguing over the difference between spaghetti and capellini

If you look at the entire landscape of the Marleau deal, it was largely a subtraction of $6.25 million to pay for the new raises to Kapanen's $3.2 million and Johnsson's $3.4 million who would combine to make $6.6 million. That's pretty straight forward.

With hindsight baked in, Kapanen and Johnsson were not worth it, and both were shipped out within a year. In the end, the Leafs got rid of the worst asset (Marleau) to keep two overpaid young guys, at the expense of the Seth Jarvis pick, which turned into the best asset in the deal.

The post script on this sequence of trades is Dubas managed to trade his Kapanen mistake to Pittsburgh and received a 1st round pick, *almost* undoing the damage of losing the Jarvis pick, sliding from 13 to 15. However, Amirov was the Leafs pick and we all know the story there with the brain tumor.

In hindsight the easiest thing would have been to keep Marleau for the extra year and realize Kappy and Mango were duds.

In summary, I'd say this sequence was similar to the McCann/Hallander/Holl/Kerfoot expansion fiasco and very representative of the Dubas era. A lot of creativity and thought process, wheeling and dealing in a tight situation. But they just don't really pan out on the ice.

 

[ToneDog]

If you look at the entire landscape of the Marleau deal, it was largely a subtraction of $6.25 million to pay for the new raises to Kapanen's $3.2 million and Johnsson's $3.4 million who would combine to make $6.6 million. That's pretty straight forward.

With hindsight baked in, Kapanen and Johnsson were not worth it, and both were shipped out within a year. In the end, the Leafs got rid of the worst asset (Marleau) to keep two overpaid young guys, at the expense of the Seth Jarvis pick, which turned into the best asset in the deal.

The post script on this sequence of trades is Dubas managed to trade his Kapanen mistake to Pittsburgh and received a 1st round pick, *almost* undoing the damage of losing the Jarvis pick, sliding from 13 to 15. However, Amirov was the Leafs pick and we all know the story there with the brain tumor.

In hindsight the easiest thing would have been to keep Marleau for the extra year and realize Kappy and Mango were duds.

In summary, I'd say this sequence was similar to the McCann/Hallander/Holl/Kerfoot expansion fiasco and very representative of the Dubas era. A lot of creativity and thought process, wheeling and dealing in a tight situation. But they just don't really pan out on the ice.

I believe they moved Marleau, Kappy and AJ to pay 16 and 34. I liken the wheeling and dealing to shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[andora]

If you look at the entire landscape of the Marleau deal, it was largely a subtraction of $6.25 million to pay for the new raises to Kapanen's $3.2 million and Johnsson's $3.4 million who would combine to make $6.6 million. That's pretty straight forward.

With hindsight baked in, Kapanen and Johnsson were not worth it, and both were shipped out within a year. In the end, the Leafs got rid of the worst asset (Marleau) to keep two overpaid young guys, at the expense of the Seth Jarvis pick, which turned into the best asset in the deal.

The post script on this sequence of trades is Dubas managed to trade his Kapanen mistake to Pittsburgh and received a 1st round pick, *almost* undoing the damage of losing the Jarvis pick, sliding from 13 to 15. However, Amirov was the Leafs pick and we all know the story there with the brain tumor.

In hindsight the easiest thing would have been to keep Marleau for the extra year and realize Kappy and Mango were duds.

In summary, I'd say this sequence was similar to the McCann/Hallander/Holl/Kerfoot expansion fiasco and very representative of the Dubas era. A lot of creativity and thought process, wheeling and dealing in a tight situation. But they just don't really pan out on the ice.

Great post and details. You are correct far too much overthinking which overtime created lots of missed opportunities and poor choices. If you look at each one in a vacuum you can go okay well that was small but you keep adding them all up and it's frustrating.

Too many times the simplest solution was the best and in this case it was keeping him for that extra year

 

[Stephen]

I believe they moved Marleau, Kappy and AJ to pay 16 and 34. I liken the wheeling and dealing to shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

No, Kap, AJ, AM34, MM and Willie were all on their new deals in 2019-2020. It was that Tyson Barrie Cody Ceci team everyone hated. The price for the Big Guns was baked in.

 

[Stephen]

Great post and details. You are correct far too much overthinking which overtime created lots of missed opportunities and poor choices. If you look at each one in a vacuum you can go okay well that was small but you keep adding them all up and it's frustrating.

Too many times the simplest solution was the best and in this case it was keeping him for that extra year

Yeah. Moving Marleau wasn't really the poisoned Lou inheritance people frame it to be which threatened to tear apart the core, yada yada. It was just a misevaluation of Kapanen and Johnsson at the middle class level and paying them too much too soon and being wrong with the nitty gritty hockey and people evaluation.

Like any Joe Blow on the internet can say, "lock up the young guys" before they pop. But how do commit 3x and 4x years to those two, only to change your mind one year later and realize neither should be here?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

How is it that we have a firmly established anti-Treliving Leaf fans this early into his tenure?

What has he done so far? Hire Shane Doan as a special assistant?

Why? Why? Why?!!!!
(Done in a George Costanza voice)

 

[ToneDog]

No, Kap, AJ, AM34, MM and Willie were all on their new deals in 2019-2020. It was that Tyson Barrie Cody Ceci team everyone hated. The price for the Big Guns was baked in.

Marleau was moved out June 19, 2019. Mitch signed prior to training camp and it is probably why I associate the two. I recall we also traded for Clarkson to be cap compliance in anticipation of a Marner deal.

 

[Mess]

In regards to that Murray deal for a 3rd and a 7th from Ottawa.. The 3rd has already been traded away in the rental of Ryan O'Reilly & Noel Acciari of which the Leafs paid 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks.

So for taking on that butt ugly backloaded contract that pays Matt Murray $8 mil this year ($2 mil paid by Ottawa) the Leafs have only a 7th rounder in 2024 left to show for it, BEFORE Treliving has to find away to erase another Dubas blunder.

Leafs fans left discussing what the cost will be between the Marleau Dubas Blunder of dealing a 1st, or the Mrazek UFA signing and blunder that also cost them their 1st round pick to erase.

Treliving only has 3 surviving picks from this upcoming draft, due the scorched earth approach by the previous GM. So not a lot of draft capital to work with.

Most likely outcome to prevent more damage to the draft class is a buyout that will hit the Leafs with a +$2 mil dead cap space in 2024-25 when Matthews and Nylander raises kick in.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yeah. Moving Marleau wasn't really the poisoned Lou inheritance people frame it to be which threatened to tear apart the core, yada yada. It was just a misevaluation of Kapanen and Johnsson at the middle class level and paying them too much too soon and being wrong with the nitty gritty hockey and people evaluation.

Like any Joe Blow on the internet can say, "lock up the young guys" before they pop. But how do commit 3x and 4x years to those two, only to change your mind one year later and realize neither should be here?

Marleau was a huge mistake. Like Huge. The 3rd year is not a mistake bc you can’t anticipate signing JT but it was Marleau attitude and his mentorship that screwed up the young guys-AM and MM. Marleau never led his team, he had always been the Pippen and Rodman while getting paid quite well. That’s the attitude AM and MM have, always looking over their shoulder to rely on someone else to lead instead of putting their head down and run through walls.

When Kap and AJ were signed, they both were coming off 20 goals and 40-50pts season without PP1 time, Both got good speed, can score… Dubas didn’t overpaid for them, rather they just could not repeat their performance, one due to injury.

 

[Stephen]

Marleau was a huge mistake. Like Huge. The 3rd year is not a mistake bc you can’t anticipate signing JT but it was Marleau attitude and his mentorship that screwed up the young guys-AM and MM. Marleau never led his team, he had always been the Pippen and Rodman while getting paid quite well. That’s the attitude AM and MM have, always looking over their shoulder to rely on someone else to lead instead of putting their head down and run through walls.

When Kap and AJ were signed, they both were coming off 20 goals and 40-50pts season without PP1 time, Both got good speed, can score… Dubas didn’t overpaid for them, rather they just could not repeat their performance, one due to injury.

Right, the fact that we are knee deep in Marleau recriminations in a Matt Murray thread would suggest this latest blunder is something awful as well. Dubas went out and didn't even get full retention for 2 years on one of the most toxic assets in the game.