News Article: Matt Murray on LTIR

[Buds17]

If Sammy’s the answer in net he’ll want a significant raise , if he isn’t we’re not going to find the answer for minimum wage so yes the team is cap desperate especially since they’ll also try to re-sign ROR and Bunting .

Being cap desperate can force a team to do crazy things! Fair enough about the goaltending situation. I think the biggest decision at forward will at best be ROR or Bunting though.

 

[hotpaws]

Being cap desperate can force a team to do crazy things! Fair enough about the goaltending situation. I think the biggest decision at forward will at best be ROR or Bunting though.

It’ll be interesting how it plays out , Bunting hasn’t made squat yet so he’ll try to get as much as possible and ROR has fought for every cent .

 

[ACC1224]

Being cap desperate can force a team to do crazy things! Fair enough about the goaltending situation. I think the biggest decision at forward will at best be ROR or Bunting though.

I'd be surprised if ROR stays unless Dubas offers top dollar. He's been a mercenary his whole career.

 

[rocketman588]

They'd have to be crazy or cap desperate in order to do that.

I would hope we could just ltir him permanently

 

[Buds17]

I'd be surprised if ROR stays unless Dubas offers top dollar. He's been a mercenary his whole career.

I'm just guessing that he'll have better opportunities than to simply be any team's 3C. We'll have to see how the rest of this season plays out.

I would hope we could just ltir him permanently

It's too early for any of that right now.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

It’ll be interesting how it plays out , Bunting hasn’t made squat yet so he’ll try to get as much as possible and ROR has fought for every cent .

I said the same thing about Campbell last year. Guy has bounced around taking league min deals. He'll be looking to secure the bag too.

ROR has a history of chasing the money but to this point he's made 76M in his career. Hopefully he doesn't care about the money at this point and that he truly does want to bring a cup home. Not expecting him to take a Spezza or Gio discount since he's not at the end of his career yet but maybe something in the 4M range.

 

[hotpaws]

I said the same thing about Campbell last year. Guy has bounced around taking league min deals. He'll be looking to secure the bag too.

ROR has a history of chasing the money but to this point he's made 76M in his career. Hopefully he doesn't care about the money at this point and that he truly does want to bring a cup home. Not expecting him to take a Spezza or Gio discount since he's not at the end of his career yet but maybe something in the 4M range.

as I said to another poster , it’d be nice if he gave us a break but he’s probably looking at Kadri’s deal as a bottom end comparable

 

[horner]

I'd be surprised if ROR stays unless Dubas offers top dollar. He's been a mercenary his whole career.

Playing with marner change his mind.
5 mil for 3 years

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

as I said to another poster , it’d be nice if he gave us a break but he’s probably looking at Kadri’s deal as a bottom end comparable

I dont see their situations as comparables necessarily. Kadri was coming off a contract that paid him 4.5M aav and a career year that had him on pace for 100 pts. He was going for his big ticket contract.

ROR will be coming off his big ticket contract after a couple of down yrs production wise (although on fire so far with the Leafs). Wouldn't be surprised if he asks for 5.5 - 6M over a 5 yr term though. Let's just hope he gives us a break.

 

[ACC1224]

Playing with may change his mind.
5 mil for 3 years

At his age I would think he'll want more than 3 years.

 

[Mess]

Murray has had 1 great month and 1 good month on the ice, 1 poor month on the ice and 2 months injured.

Remember at the beginning of the season when I predicted the Leafs plan for Murray was to Kucherov him and keep him on LTIR for most of the year, to use his cap space elsewhere and then unwrap him from the bubble wrap for the playoffs when the cap no longer was an issue?

Remember how angry that suggestion made some Leaf fans thinking he was coming in to be Leafs #1 goalie this year to replace Campbell and his 49 games and 31 wins?

Leafs getting 19 starts and 11 wins has pretty well met those low expectations of mine guessing at best 20-25 games and Leafs would be fortunate while investing $4.687 mil cap.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Remember at the beginning of the season when I predicted the Leafs plan for Murray was to Kucherov him and keep him on LTIR for most of the year, to use his cap space elsewhere and then unwrap him from the bubble wrap for the playoffs when the cap no longer was an issue?

Are you bragging about being wrong? We didn't Kucherov Murray.
I certainly remember you talking extensively about how our goaltending would be worse and claiming that we'd be an 80-something point bubble team.
3 swings, 3 misses. I think they call that a strikeout.

 

[Stephen]

Are you bragging about being wrong? We didn't Kucherov Murray.
I certainly remember you talking extensively about how our goaltending would be worse and claiming that we'd be an 80-something point bubble team.
3 swings, 3 misses. I think they call that a strikeout.

Murray's $4.7 million cap hit for 19 games isn't really an efficient use of cap space though, so Mess' scenario of a Kucherov stash-away would have allowed for Toronto to be way more flexible on other fronts from the get-go while still getting Murray, assuming he's a playoff wild card.

 

[Stephen]

Remember at the beginning of the season when I predicted the Leafs plan for Murray was to Kucherov him and keep him on LTIR for most of the year, to use his cap space elsewhere and then unwrap him from the bubble wrap for the playoffs when the cap no longer was an issue?

Remember how angry that suggestion made some Leaf fans thinking he was coming in to be Leafs #1 goalie this year to replace Campbell and his 49 games and 31 wins?

Leafs getting 19 starts and 11 wins has pretty well met those low expectations of mine guessing at best 20-25 games and Leafs would be fortunate while investing $4.687 mil cap.

Murray hasn't been the best use of limited cap space. Considering they were outbid for Noel Acciari and what a god send he looks like... and realize he only makes $1.25 million.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Murray's $4.7 million cap hit for 19 games isn't really an efficient use of cap space though, so Mess' scenario of a Kucherov stash-away would have allowed for Toronto to be way more flexible on other fronts from the get-go while still getting Murray, assuming he's a playoff wild card.

Murray has the 22nd highest goalie cap hit and is 23rd in total GSAx (and would probably be higher if Samsonov wasn't doing so well), so you could do a heck of a lot worse with cap efficiency in goalies. You can't just stash healthy players on LTIR for a season whenever you want to, and if Dubas had started the year with Samsonov and an injured Woll, he would have been torn apart.

 

[Stephen]

Murray has the 22nd highest goalie cap hit and is 23rd in total GSAx (and would probably be higher if Samsonov wasn't doing so well), so you could do a heck of a lot worse with cap efficiency in goalies. You can't just stash healthy players on LTIR for a season whenever you want to, and if Dubas had started the year with Samsonov and an injured Woll, he would have been torn apart.

Matt Murray currently ranks 53rd in games played per NHL goalies, which is an abject disaster if not for Samsonov making a run for the starting job at less than 50% of that salary.

Like I said in the summer. Murray is a parlay bet on both quality of play and health. He's been very good at times, and I've liked his contribution, but you don't pay $4.7 million for the 53rd ranked goalie in games played. That's not value.

Mess' scenario makes more sense. If we're going to get 20 games out of Murray, it may as well be coming off LTIR in the playoffs. At least there's zero carry cost during the season and you can build a better roster.

 

[Mess]

Murray's $4.7 million cap hit for 19 games isn't really an efficient use of cap space though, so Mess' scenario of a Kucherov stash-away would have allowed for Toronto to be way more flexible on other fronts from the get-go while still getting Murray, assuming he's a playoff wild card.

Exactly

At this point Murray has in fact been less efficient in terms of cap usage than Mrazek was last year because of an even bigger cap hit.

Last year Mrazek (@ $3.8 mil) played in 20 games going 12-8-0 and contributing while he was the goalie in net to 24 points in the standings for the Leafs.
This year Murray (@ $4.687 mil) has played in only 19 games going 11-6-2 and thus also contributing 24 points to the Leafs win - loss record and points in the standings.

Those are both really poor return on investment and cap usage.

Murray's sporadic availability and cap usage could have been far better spent on a top 4 dman, with Murray on LTIR all year. Playing a game then missing 14 on IR, then playing another and gone again for 15 games and counting means Leafs are paying a steep cap usage cost to secure them 11 wins on this season.,

My preseason position still stands as the better outcome for the Leafs, and doesn't prevent those that still believe Murray is the magical answer to playoff struggles.

 

[Petrus]

Hey, I’m only 63.

Being a Leaf fan, I bet your liver is much older!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Matt Murray currently ranks 53rd in games played per NHL goalies, which is an abject disaster if not for Samsonov making a run for the starting job at less than 50% of that salary.

Like I said in the summer. Murray is a parlay bet on both quality of play and health. He's been very good at times, and I've liked his contribution, but you don't pay $4.7 million for the 53rd ranked goalie in games played. That's not value.

Mess' scenario makes more sense. If we're going to get 20 games out of Murray, it may as well be coming off LTIR in the playoffs. At least there's zero carry cost during the season and you can build a better roster.

Murray ranks 23rd in total GSAx, so he's still providing more positive impact to his team than many of those goalies with more GP. Playing many games badly isn't value.
Murray is 48th in GP, not 53rd, and it would be more if Samsonov wasn't doing so well.
Mess' scenario does not make sense. You can't LTIR a healthy player for a season whenever you want to. That wasn't an option in the first place.
But also, prior to the season, there was uncertainty with Samsonov, and Woll was injured and hadn't had his explosion in the AHL that he saw this year. Murray was important.
And throughout the season, he has provided us positive goaltending impact, which is more than any goalie did for us last year.

 

[The Podium]

Murray ranks 23rd in total GSAx, so he's still providing more positive impact to his team than many of those goalies with more GP. Playing many games badly isn't value.
Murray is 48th in GP, not 53rd, and it would be more if Samsonov wasn't doing so well.
Mess' scenario does not make sense. You can't LTIR a healthy player for a season whenever you want to. That wasn't an option in the first place.
But also, prior to the season, there was uncertainty with Samsonov, and Woll was injured and hadn't had his explosion in the AHL that he saw this year. Murray was important.
And throughout the season, he has provided us positive goaltending impact, which is more than any goalie did for us last year.

For all the “it doesn’t matter until playoffs” it seems like so much matters to those same people before playoffs….

“Games in the regular season don’t matter” yet Murray’s GP matter despite overall good results.

 

[Stephen]

Murray ranks 23rd in total GSAx, so he's still providing more positive impact to his team than many of those goalies with more GP. Playing many games badly isn't value.
Murray is 48th in GP, not 53rd, and it would be more if Samsonov wasn't doing so well.
Mess' scenario does not make sense. You can't LTIR a healthy player for a season whenever you want to. That wasn't an option in the first place.
But also, prior to the season, there was uncertainty with Samsonov, and Woll was injured and hadn't had his explosion in the AHL that he saw this year. Murray was important.
And throughout the season, he has provided us positive goaltending impact, which is more than any goalie did for us last year.

Those GSAx numbers aren't particularly good in total, but the issue is he's a parlay bet on quality of play AND health. So if he's not healthy, he's not useful. And all things being equal with cap, he'd be less of a road block if he was just on LTIR the whole season because he's preventing Toronto from doing other things with his big salary.

You might want to argue with NHL.com, they seem to think he's ranked 53rd in games played.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[The Podium]

Those GSAx numbers aren't particularly good in total, but the issue is he's a parlay bet on quality of play AND health. So if he's not healthy, he's not useful. And all things being equal with cap, he'd be less of a road block if he was just on LTIR the whole season because he's preventing Toronto from doing other things with his big salary.

You might want to argue with NHL.com, they seem to think he's ranked 53rd in games played.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

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Doesn’t matter until he misses games in the playoffs

 

[Stephen]

For all the “it doesn’t matter until playoffs” it seems like so much matters to those same people before playoffs….

“Games in the regular season don’t matter” yet Murray’s GP matter despite overall good results.

Murray's regular season doesn't matter because there's another guy doing his job at less than 50% of his salary. And chances are he's not going to be thrust into a playoff job if Samsonov is brilliant the rest of the season and takes us into the postseason.

The analogy would be like Kerfoot scoring 60 goals while Auston Matthews spent most of the year injured and pretending like that was mission accomplished for Auston...

 

[ToneDog]

Murray's regular season doesn't matter because there's another guy doing his job at less than 50% of his salary. And chances are he's not going to be thrust into a playoff job if Samsonov is brilliant the rest of the season and takes us into the postseason.

The analogy would be like Kerfoot scoring 60 goals while Auston Matthews spent most of the year injured and pretending like that was mission accomplished for Auston...

If both pull up their socks, they might hit 60 goals combined.

 

[The Podium]

Murray's regular season doesn't matter because there's another guy doing his job at less than 50% of his salary. And chances are he's not going to be thrust into a playoff job if Samsonov is brilliant the rest of the season and takes us into the postseason.

The analogy would be like Kerfoot scoring 60 goals while Auston Matthews spent most of the year injured and pretending like that was mission accomplished for Auston...

Shit… so you’re saying Samsonov was a steal and Murray wasn’t so let’s just call it even?