Player Discussion Matt Murray (G) - 4 years, $6.25M AAV

[supsens]

No problem with getting some good vets as placeholders. Two problems though from the crop that Dorion got.

1) Got too many. No need for so many vets this past offseason.
2) They were not good. Hence the bolded.

Bonus problem: They overpaid for them.

do you have any idea of the price of good place holders? Other teams are not giving away good players.
They didn’t bring in players to go for a cup or players to win games they brought in throw away players that were thrown away when they were not needed.
Overpaid? Oh no they changed a second rounder and two fifth rounders into a later second a third 2 seventh and dzingle the horror..... how will they ever recover

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

do you have any idea of the price of good place holders? Other teams are not giving away good players.
They didn’t bring in players to go for a cup or players to win games they brought in throw away players that were thrown away when they were not needed.
Overpaid? Oh no they changed a second rounder and two fifth rounders into a later second a third 2 seventh and dzingle the horror..... how will they ever recover

I'll trade you 5 bucks for $ 7.50 . It won't break you , probably won't even miss that piddling 2.50. If you like how it works out we can do it again.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

I remember liking the moves Dorion was making last fall. As @supsens said, the moves weren't made to make the playoffs, they were made so that the weight of the world didn't fall squarely on our young players. It turns out our young players are proving they can handle the pressure but that was an unknown last fall. And really, not much was given to get any of them so that's not a fair criticism.

 

[supsens]

I'll trade you 5 bucks for $ 7.50 . It won't break you , probably won't even miss that piddling 2.50. If you like how it works out we can do it again.

Ya and if Stepan didn’t get hurt they would have received another third and been ahead
no they traded 7.50 for 7.50 and got insurance they would have enough nhl players to start a season.
But cool made up story and offer

 

[God Says No]

Ya and if Stepan didn’t get hurt they would have received another third and been ahead
no they traded 7.50 for 7.50 and got insurance they would have enough nhl players to start a season.
But cool made up story and offer

That's funny. You just made up an offer that we would get a third for Stepan. The way he was playing it would have been lucky if we even got a 7th for him.

do you have any idea of the price of good place holders? Other teams are not giving away good players.
They didn’t bring in players to go for a cup or players to win games they brought in throw away players that were thrown away when they were not needed.
Overpaid? Oh no they changed a second rounder and two fifth rounders into a later second a third 2 seventh and dzingle the horror..... how will they ever recover

Yes I do know the price of good holders. Want a good example? How about Hamonic who signed a one year for 1.2M a day before the season started. He's been waaaaaaaay better than Gubranson or J. Brown. But ok, let's throw away picks on useless players. You are missing the point. I don't mind giving away the picks, as long it makes sense and we get useful players. I'm sorry, but Cobourn/Gudbranson/JBrown/Galch/Paquette have been close to disastrous.

 

[TkachukMyAho]

I remember liking the moves Dorion was making last fall. As @supsens said, the moves weren't made to make the playoffs, they were made so that the weight of the world didn't fall squarely on our young players. It turns out our young players are proving they can handle the pressure but that was an unknown last fall. And really, not much was given to get any of them so that's not a fair criticism.

I agree with this. There'll be a few more rotations of this behaviour within the NHL with insulating youth with non-productive depth before the powers that be understand that 19 and 20 year olds are more than capable of playing in this league at a younger age.

 

[DueDiligence]

Yes I do know the price of good holders. Want a good example? How about Hamonic who signed a one year for 1.2M a day before the season started. He's been waaaaaaaay better than Gubranson or J. Brown

That's a good plan if those sort of players want to sign in Ottawa. But at the start of this season how many were choosing the Sens over better teams? Not too many.

 

[DJB]

That's funny. You just made up an offer that we would get a third for Stepan. The way he was playing it would have been lucky if we even got a 7th for him.



Yes I do know the price of good holders. Want a good example? How about Hamonic who signed a one year for 1.2M a day before the season started. He's been waaaaaaaay better than Gubranson or J. Brown. But ok, let's throw away picks on useless players. You are missing the point. I don't mind giving away the picks, as long it makes sense and we get useful players. I'm sorry, but Cobourn/Gudbranson/JBrown/Galch/Paquette have been close to disastrous.

You can't use Harmonic as an example because he refuses to play anywhere other than Western Canada.

 

[supsens]

That's funny. You just made up an offer that we would get a third for Stepan. The way he was playing it would have been lucky if we even got a 7th for him.



Yes I do know the price of good holders. Want a good example? How about Hamonic who signed a one year for 1.2M a day before the season started. He's been waaaaaaaay better than Gubranson or J. Brown. But ok, let's throw away picks on useless players. You are missing the point. I don't mind giving away the picks, as long it makes sense and we get useful players. I'm sorry, but Cobourn/Gudbranson/JBrown/Galch/Paquette have been close to disastrous.

Yes not one player started out slow this year then reverted back to the norm...
Oh cool and in your magical fairy tale why is Homonic moving out east to play for the last place sens?
His four points is wayyyy better than who now? im sure you would be doing cartwheels on how great that poop is.
Brown has been fine the other fillers that were needed just in case are gone because they were not needed.
I guess you get paid for insurance and so should the Sens while the rest of the world pays for it

How hard do you need to work to find negative over nothing. Wha wha the sens will never use cap space to get assets taking on crap players that sure turned into wha wha why did they take on crap players for assets fairly fast around here.

 

[supsens]

I agree with this. There'll be a few more rotations of this behaviour within the NHL with insulating youth with non-productive depth before the powers that be understand that 19 and 20 year olds are more than capable of playing in this league at a younger age.

Not many 19 and 20 year olds are. If you think they need to wise up and learn they can just draft anyone and throw them out there... Nope

 

[JungleBeat]

Injury prone.

 

[TkachukMyAho]

Not many 19 and 20 year olds are. If you think they need to wise up and learn they can just draft anyone and throw them out there... Nope

I suppose this is true for now, but I see the trend changing. You will see teams starting more and more recent draftees as we go forward in my opinion. They're a better option than run-down vets, the perception just needs to change amongst the lead. Throw that in with the benefit of ELC.

 

[supsens]

I suppose this is true for now, but I see the trend changing. You will see teams starting more and more recent draftees as we go forward in my opinion. They're a better option than run-down vets, the perception just needs to change amongst the lead. Throw that in with the benefit of ELC.

Except like 75% of the players drafted will never be good enough and a large majority of those that do make it are not good enough until they reach their physical prime 3 or 4 years after draft day.
Watering down the talent to save money may happen but it won't have anything to do with skill.

 

[God Says No]

Yes not one player started out slow this year then reverted back to the norm...
Oh cool and in your magical fairy tale why is Homonic moving out east to play for the last place sens?
His four points is wayyyy better than who now? im sure you would be doing cartwheels on how great that poop is.
Brown has been fine the other fillers that were needed just in case are gone because they were not needed.
I guess you get paid for insurance and so should the Sens while the rest of the world pays for it

How hard do you need to work to find negative over nothing. Wha wha the sens will never use cap space to get assets taking on crap players that sure turned into wha wha why did they take on crap players for assets fairly fast around here.

Perhaps you are right that Hamonic doesn't budge, but you pay him more than Van offered and he might consider. He would still make a lot less then Gubranson did. But sure look at his 4 points and don't look at his overall game, because JBrown and Gubranson set the bar so high. Sheesh.

Do you want more? How about Devon Toews, Ryan Murray, I can go on. The point is that the wrong players were targeted. Dorion got a boner for big players who can crosscheck and hence we were where we were at the beginning of the season.

BTW, it's not very hard to find negatives when pretty much all the moves by Dorion have backfired spectacularly. And Brown hasn't been "fine". There was a reason he was scratched for 80% of the season. The point is, I'm ok with fillers. I'm ok with spending draft capital to acquire it. BUT, now this is important, it has to be the correct players who can contribute positively.

 

[God Says No]

That's a good plan if those sort of players want to sign in Ottawa. But at the start of this season how many were choosing the Sens over better teams? Not too many.

Easy. You overpay on short contracts. Don't think Hamonic had many options. But that is one example. I posted others which were to be had above through trade.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Options are very limited when you are signing guys on one year deals to play for a bottom team in the league.

Guys on short terms deals want cash, and they want to win, and the better of them always seem to be able to get both.

We have chosen to focus on character and one year deals so that we at least come away with a few usable traits. Undoubtably we also offer these guys the chance to be traded to playoff teams at the deadline if they perform well, back dooring them onto teams not interested in the summer. It’s a nice little set up for older guys, guys looking to reset their careers, or a combination of both.

It’s one thing to throw out names, but guys with options don’t pick teams at the start of a rebuild on a one year deal. The money would have to be exorbitant, and in the end for what purpose if we’re not even pushing for the playoffs. The team wants mentors and placeholders, and there is a limited number of guys that want to be that in Ottawa.

Even back to the Murray days the team has been pretty clear that they want guys that want to be here, and as a less desirable location to play, these things become important.

It goes both ways; we have to want the guy and he has to want what we’re offering.

 

[The Expert]

And Brown hasn't been "fine". There was a reason he was scratched for 80% of the season. The point is, I'm ok with fillers. I'm ok with spending draft capital to acquire it. BUT, now this is important, it has to be the correct players who can contribute positively.

That’s like saying there’s a reason Zub was scratched for 20% of the season. Brown has been solid since the trade deadline.

 

[supsens]

Perhaps you are right that Hamonic doesn't budge, but you pay him more than Van offered and he might consider. He would still make a lot less then Gubranson did. But sure look at his 4 points and don't look at his overall game, because JBrown and Gubranson set the bar so high. Sheesh.

Do you want more? How about Devon Toews, Ryan Murray, I can go on. The point is that the wrong players were targeted. Dorion got a boner for big players who can crosscheck and hence we were where we were at the beginning of the season.

BTW, it's not very hard to find negatives when pretty much all the moves by Dorion have backfired spectacularly. And Brown hasn't been "fine". There was a reason he was scratched for 80% of the season. The point is, I'm ok with fillers. I'm ok with spending draft capital to acquire it. BUT, now this is important, it has to be the correct players who can contribute positively.

With Chabot and Brannstrom playing and Sanderson on the way why on earth are they trading 2 second round picks for a unsigned soon to be UFA?
Why are you listing left handed D when budget wise and long term they have zero need for them. And yes Brown has been fine.

 

[JD1]

That's funny. You just made up an offer that we would get a third for Stepan. The way he was playing it would have been lucky if we even got a 7th for him.



Yes I do know the price of good holders. Want a good example? How about Hamonic who signed a one year for 1.2M a day before the season started. He's been waaaaaaaay better than Gubranson or J. Brown. But ok, let's throw away picks on useless players. You are missing the point. I don't mind giving away the picks, as long it makes sense and we get useful players. I'm sorry, but Cobourn/Gudbranson/JBrown/Galch/Paquette have been close to disastrous.

You still want to have that debate about whether this year's D is better than last year's D?

 

[JD1]

That's a good plan if those sort of players want to sign in Ottawa. But at the start of this season how many were choosing the Sens over better teams? Not too many.

Hamonic signed out west to be near family. He requested a trade out of Long Island so he could go west to be near family.

No, he would not have signed in Ottawa for that money

It's either disingenuous to suggest it or the guy suggesting it doesn't know what he's talking about

 

[c_mak]

So any update on Murray's injury?

 

[DJB]

So any update on Murray's injury?

It looked groin to me but I haven't seen anyone tweet anything.

 

[Crosside]

So any update on Murray's injury?

Day to day lower body injury

 

[trentmccleary]

I'm going to run cross sections of the season based on our perceptions of how the season went (ie; the first half away games were brutal). I'll finish it off at the end of the season, but 3 of the 4 periods involve Murray playing lots of games, so I'll post the partial table here.

Period	GP, Record	Pts	Pt/82	GPG	GAA	PP	PK	SF	SA
F14 A	14, 3_11_0	6	35	2.36	4.71	10.0	63.2	32.0	31.6
F14 H	14, 6_6_2	14	82	3.00	3.00	20.0	84.1	33.9	31.2
L14 H	10, 3-4-3	9	74	2.10	2.60	11.1	84.0	30.9	32.0
L14 A	11, 5-6-0	10	75	3.18	3.45	25.8	81.8	24.7	34.7

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Murray	GP, Record	GAA	SV%	TOI
F14 A	8, 1-6-0	5.26	0.830	353:23
F14 H	12, 5-5-1	2.90	0.909	662:40
L14 H	1, 0-1-0	3.06	0.914	58:55
L14 A	6, 4-1-0	2.37	0.921	329:13

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Sweatred]

sounds like he is done for season ... once again does not require protection.