Player Discussion Matt Murray (G) - 4 years, $6.25M AAV

[JD1]

That was a really good listen

Shockingly different level of insight compared to joe fan

 

[Sens With Benefits]

He’s looked great since he’s been back.

 

[aragorn]

If the goaltending plays well the team plays well, this is a playoff team next yr if they get good goaltending ALL yr.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Thumbs up to nothing other than good goalie vibes from Murray since the return.

 

[JD1]

Listening to that radio interview the other day makes me wonder if Murray was held out longer than his health would have indicated to help with his transition

He's made a few side to side explosive saves which is what the dude was talking about on the radio.

He's rocking about a .940 save percentage since his return

I think it'd be a real nice objective for him to get it over .900 for the season

 

[Xspyrit]

Like I have said all season, provide NHL level defense and Murray is going to do the job

Home games haven't been a problem for him (and the team) and his game by game SV% has been totally fine most of the time (0.909 SV% overall) :

0.870 SV%, 0.925 SV%, 0.857 SV%, 0.846 SV%, 0.938 SV%, 0.941 SV%, 1.000 SV%, 0.938 SV%, 0.889 SV%, 0.967 SV%, 0.818 SV%, 0.964 SV%, 0.914 SV%

The problem has been ROAD games (whoever was in net) but team defense on the road lately has been NIGHT and DAY better compared to the first 18 road games. Nothing against Gudbranson, Coburn, Reilly, etc but them gone might have something to do with it. Mario Tremblay criticized DJ Smith for the Sens defensive coverage early in the season but he was praising him yesterday, that finally it seems to be "fixed"

That being said, despite the recent road team defense, the last 5 road games :

@ Montreal 3 GA (Forsberg)
@ Winnipeg 4 GA (Forsberg)
@ Toronto 6 GA (Forsberg)
@ Montreal 0 GA (Murray)
@ Calgary0 2 GA (Murray)

Hopefully the trend continues, notice that we haven't played Vancouver and Edmonton on the road recently. Played Toronto once and gave up 6 goals so...

The problem has not been goaltending this season (outside of maybe the first ~10 games, which was kinda normal due to low amount of games in 10+ months), but TEAM DEFENSE. Seems very obvious, well to me at least.

 

[OD99]

Like I have said all season, provide NHL level defense and Murray is going to do the job

Home games haven't been a problem for him (and the team) and his game by game SV% has been totally fine most of the time (0.909 SV% overall) :

0.870 SV%, 0.925 SV%, 0.857 SV%, 0.846 SV%, 0.938 SV%, 0.941 SV%, 1.000 SV%, 0.938 SV%, 0.889 SV%, 0.967 SV%, 0.818 SV%, 0.964 SV%, 0.914 SV%

The problem has been ROAD games (whoever was in net) but team defense on the road lately has been NIGHT and DAY better compared to the first 18 road games. Nothing against Gudbranson, Coburn, Reilly, etc but them gone might have something to do with it. Mario Tremblay criticized DJ Smith for the Sens defensive coverage early in the season but he was praising him yesterday, that finally it seems to be "fixed"

That being said, despite the recent road team defense, the last 5 road games :

@ Montreal 3 GA (Forsberg)
@ Winnipeg 4 GA (Forsberg)
@ Toronto 6 GA (Forsberg)
@ Montreal 0 GA (Murray)
@ Calgary0 2 GA (Murray)

Hopefully the trend continues, notice that we haven't played Vancouver and Edmonton on the road recently. Played Toronto once and gave up 6 goals so...

The problem has not been goaltending this season (outside of maybe the first ~10 games, which was kinda normal due to low amount of games in 10+ months), but TEAM DEFENSE. Seems very obvious, well to me at least.

This is all good and valid but we don't need to bury our head in the sand about how bad our goalies played for the first 15 or so games of the season.

They let in absolutely awful goals and looked bad, out of position, etc...the team was bad and the goalies were bad too but goalies have to own their own terrible play, not blame the D for missing easy saves that should have been made.

EDIT to say I see you offered up ~10 games of poor goalie play but I would say it extends further. That said, the team has lowered the amount of top chances against and the goalies are all making most of the saves they should now - it's a great combination.

 

[Xspyrit]

This is all good and valid but we don't need to bury our head in the sand about how bad our goalies played for the first 15 or so games of the season.

They let in absolutely awful goals and looked bad, out of position, etc...the team was bad and the goalies were bad too but goalies have to own their own terrible play, not blame the D for missing easy saves that should have been made.

EDIT to say I see you offered up ~10 games of poor goalie play but I would say it extends further. That said, the team has lowered the amount of top chances against and the goalies are all making most of the saves they should now - it's a great combination.

Already covered that in the post you quoted.

Yes there was several "bad goals" but I think people in general have absolutely no idea what is a bad goal or not. I see it all the time through the medias here in Montreal and in GDTs. I have seen people say that the Flames 1st goal last night was a bad goal? Yeah lol

The problem with porous defensive play, which IMO was NOT NHL level for most of the road games this season, is when you GIFT WRAP at least 3 goals per game on a silver platter to the opposition, it destroys any chance for a goalie to have a "good game" and be in a "bubble" of confidence. There was games where Murray was making plenty of good saves but still gave up several goals after 2 periods. Not sure it's really good for the confidence. Yes Murray gave up some bad goals towards the beginning, but was totally left out to dry on most goals. Hogberg had a much tougher start IMO, several goals were just him not "feeling his net", which is weird IMO. I think it should be instinctive for a goalie, you should know/feel your angles all the time. Anyway, the condensed games are out there for anybody who'd want to do more analysis on this. As a goalie myself, naturally I already did the work.

Goalies like the team had a tough start (which could have been expected with no training camp and a long inactive period) but even after they "warmed up", the defense was still really bad. As we have fixed personnel mistakes (do we need a list?) throughout the season, team defense improved a lot (coaching also has a word to say in this) and goalies are not as much left out of to dry, which is why people think they have suddenly been much better. Totally wrong analysis IMO. The team is much faster now and not patched with cast-offs/regressing vets, but more with promising prospects. Personally, I totally expected that, if you look in my post history, I was totally in disagreement with the personnel choices at the beginning of the season.

 

[OD99]

Already covered

Signing a goalie for $6.5M should come with the expectation that they can win a few games on their own. We could sign anyone to be in net if we provide classic NJD team D.

 

[Xspyrit]

Signing a goalie for $6.5M should come with the expectation that they can win a few games on their own. We could sign anyone to be in net if we provide classic NJD team D.

Doron is very good with identifying young developing talents (prospects) but not sure he has what it takes to identify which established players would fit on the team he is trying to assemble (Stepan? Gudbranson? Paquette? Galchenyuk? Etc) and fit in the roles they have available...

Murray is not a "rebuilding team" type goalie, he is a guy that will thrive behind a structure, like the last few games have shown and as evidenced in Pittsburgh (obviously lol). It was also easy to see in most home games this season as it look like a total different team than road games.

If he wanted a guy that would stand on his head behind a discombobulated defense, that guy was Marc-Andre Fleury. Another thing I have said all year. Ironically, Murray would have very good numbers in Vegas, one of the best defensive teams.

Note : AAV is 6.25 but I thought it was 5.25. Another "bad contract" given up by Dorion, I'm not arguing that. However, if our "team defense" continue to improve, Murray will have the numbers going forward that make people think he is worth the money.

 

[OD99]

Murray will have the numbers going forward that make people think he is worth the money.

At the end of the day if Murry can provide the type of goaltending he has recently and the team keeps progressing then I agree, it will be a moot point. Winning takes care of a lot of things.

Still don't like the amount and believe our young goalies could have been ready but having a young veteran who has been to the top and experienced the lowest lows is a good piece to have as well.

 

[mat_sens]

I've been very critical of Murray, but he looks like a different goalie out there. He was a bit rusty the first game after 5 weeks off, but he looked very sharp last night. Hopefully he continues stringing together over .900 SV% games.

 

[Xspyrit]

At the end of the day if Murry can provide the type of goaltending he has recently and the team keeps progressing then I agree, it will be a moot point. Winning takes care of a lot of things.

Still don't like the amount and believe our young goalies could have been ready but having a young veteran who has been to the top and experienced the lowest lows is a good piece to have as well.

If you remember, Andy's extension and Condon's re-signing were also "premature" and too long/too expensive. This signing is in the same mold. I mean, yes Murray had a lot of pro success early on in both AHL and NHL but he had several injuries since and his overall performance has not been elite lately. That kind of 4 years contract is assuming he'd go back to being one of the best goalies right away without any doubt. But try to do that on a rebuilding team with a porous defense lol

Like I said before, the goalie that team needed was M-A Fleury... Maybe he really didn't want to come here but I don't know, his situation in Vegas was pretty "toxic", luckily for him Lehner was injured for a while, which allowed him to shine once again.

All that being said, Murray could end up worth his contract once the team is solid overall and more "established"... Dorion just went 4 years to not have Murray become UFA too fast. He should have went 2 years which would have been more risky but based on where the team is/was, it was not that risky... Hard to put great numbers on a rebuilding team with bad team defense. Once again, Dorion lacks foresight IMO

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

nice stats since his return

 

[Tuna99]

Murray seems to be a really good teammate and did have Crosby to learn from. He’s always pumping up his teammates. If it all comes together for him technically, he’s over his injuries and he grows into the leader he’s set out to be this year with the team - it’ll be huge.

He could be a Mike Vernon type, not the most athletic or fun goalie to watch, just there and raising his game in the playoffs and Winning with multiple teams or a Chris Osgoode who never was graded as a top NHL but won Cups for Detroit

 

[bashbros32]

nice stats since his return

I've been extremely happy to see this over the last few games, he seems to be playing with more confidence!

Also with replacing Coburn/Gudbranson/Reilly with Brannstrom/J.Brown/Mete the team seems to be playing with more confidence as well! This team may just be a bubble contender next year!

I know it's a small sample size, but with Murray coming around on his game, and the potential of adding someone like B.Clarke to the right side as early as next season, things are looking up in sens land!

 

[Xspyrit]

I've been extremely happy to see this over the last few games, he seems to be playing with more confidence!

Also with replacing Coburn/Gudbranson/Reilly with Brannstrom/J.Brown/Mete the team seems to be playing with more confidence as well! This team may just be a bubble contender next year!

I know it's a small sample size, but with Murray coming around on his game, and the potential of adding someone like B.Clarke to the right side as early as next season, things are looking up in sens land!

It's not just these D-men, think about the forwards too. Compare the line-ups at the beginning of the season and what we have had lately

Anisimov, Stepan, Paquette, Galchenyuk gradually replaced by Dzingel, Formenton and Pinto. White has been in the lineup when not injured

Reilly/Gudbranson/Coburn/Wolanin replaced by Brannstrom, Mete and JBD (just 1 game so far). Also, Josh Brown plays more now, he's far from perfect but playing much better than early in the season. Note that Artem Zub didn't play until game 10 of the season. Crazy when you think he's easily our 2nd best D-man. Chabot seemed injured earlier too, and has been much better lately, particularly when he doesn't have to play 28-30 minutes.

So , we have lost in "size" and cross-checks/60 but we gained a lot in speed/pace/quickness. Since we do things much faster in general, we don't just gift wrap the puck in prime scoring areas as much, which kinda helps goalies lol

It's also a "perfect storm" of giving more rope to young players as they get more comfortable in the NHL. I believe DJ Smith has had more time to instill proper hockey systems that were clearly lacking early in the season (former NHL coach Mario Tremblay was criticizing it early then did a mea culpa recently). I kinda have more hope in Smith now, he seems like a hard worker able to adjust and not get stuck in the past. I'm also giving him a bit of rope too since there was no real training camp. It must have been hard to work on system/structure without it and less practice time over the season.

So yes Murray is doing much better, but so does the team in front of him. But if he has also fixed injury/technical issues during his time off, then it's even better. Hard decision for the Seattle draft if he keeps it up. I think if he finishes the season strong like he has recently, Seattle would pick him up for sure. 3 years is not that long term and actually similar to Vegas picking up Fleury (although Marc-Andre only had 2 years left).

 

[DJB]

Matt "Pascal LeClaire" Murray


Unbelievable

 

[TheDebater]

Matt "Pascal LeClaire" Murray


Unbelievable

I am starting to wonder if Matt Murray is the type of goalie/player who cannot tolerate playing through pain. Or he realizes that anything less than 100% health means his game will be off and he will let in terrible goals so he would rather sit out?

Very odd.

 

[Boud]

I am starting to wonder if Matt Murray is the type of goalie/player who cannot tolerate playing through pain. Or he realizes that anything less than 100% health means his game will be off and he will let in terrible goals so he would rather sit out?

Very odd.

He looks like a skeleton. The guy is like 6'4" 175pds. He might just be frail honestly. Maybe he also wasn't prepared to go in and didn't stretch properly or do his usual pre-game routine since Forsberg was scheduled for the night.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

There is no way in hell we should protect this guy over Gustavvson or Daccord.

 

[supsens]

It's not just these D-men, think about the forwards too. Compare the line-ups at the beginning of the season and what we have had lately

Anisimov, Stepan, Paquette, Galchenyuk gradually replaced by Dzingel, Formenton and Pinto. White has been in the lineup when not injured

Reilly/Gudbranson/Coburn/Wolanin replaced by Brannstrom, Mete and JBD (just 1 game so far). Also, Josh Brown plays more now, he's far from perfect but playing much better than early in the season. Note that Artem Zub didn't play until game 10 of the season. Crazy when you think he's easily our 2nd best D-man. Chabot seemed injured earlier too, and has been much better lately, particularly when he doesn't have to play 28-30 minutes.

So , we have lost in "size" and cross-checks/60 but we gained a lot in speed/pace/quickness. Since we do things much faster in general, we don't just gift wrap the puck in prime scoring areas as much, which kinda helps goalies lol

It's also a "perfect storm" of giving more rope to young players as they get more comfortable in the NHL. I believe DJ Smith has had more time to instill proper hockey systems that were clearly lacking early in the season (former NHL coach Mario Tremblay was criticizing it early then did a mea culpa recently). I kinda have more hope in Smith now, he seems like a hard worker able to adjust and not get stuck in the past. I'm also giving him a bit of rope too since there was no real training camp. It must have been hard to work on system/structure without it and less practice time over the season.

So yes Murray is doing much better, but so does the team in front of him. But if he has also fixed injury/technical issues during his time off, then it's even better. Hard decision for the Seattle draft if he keeps it up. I think if he finishes the season strong like he has recently, Seattle would pick him up for sure. 3 years is not that long term and actually similar to Vegas picking up Fleury (although Marc-Andre only had 2 years left).

The irony here is Pinto Formenton and Brown are not a loss in size and they have a higher cross-check/60 than the guys that left.

 

[Xspyrit]

I am starting to wonder if Matt Murray is the type of goalie/player who cannot tolerate playing through pain. Or he realizes that anything less than 100% health means his game will be off and he will let in terrible goals so he would rather sit out?

Very odd.

Sorry but that kind of speculation is a bit ridiculous. A goalie can't really afford to play through injury. Through pain, it happens all the time, but through injury you absolutely shouldn't. It could just be that he re-injured himself as he was injured very recently. I don't think you realize the level of athlecism it takes for that position, particularly at the NHL level. If it wasn't enough, goalie's gear can weight up to 50 pounds maybe more, and it gets heavier during the games

Pretty much every goalie has a long list of injuries through their career, it's like impossible to not get injured. Which goalie never had an operation? I did and never played pro

Also, regarding players weight (Boud's comment)... I don't think people realize how much weight some players LOSE during a hockey season and how much calories (ex : Turris) they have to ingest just to keep up. I think I got my first ounce of fat at 27 y/o. Was very easy to have a 6-pack for a while.

The irony here is Pinto Formenton and Brown are not a loss in size and they have a higher cross-check/60 than the guys that left.

So what was the point of spending to get Stepan, Galchenyuk and Gudbranson?

 

[supsens]

Sorry but that kind of speculation is a bit ridiculous. A goalie can't really afford to play through injury. Through pain, it happens all the time, but through injury you absolutely shouldn't. It could just be that he re-injured himself as he was injured very recently. I don't think you realize the level of athlecism it takes for that position, particularly at the NHL level. If it wasn't enough, goalie's gear can weight up to 50 pounds maybe more, and it gets heavier during the games

Pretty much every goalie has a long list of injuries through their career, it's like impossible to not get injured. Which goalie never had an operation? I did and never played pro

Also, regarding players weight (Boud's comment)... I don't think people realize how much weight some players LOSE during a hockey season and how much calories (ex : Turris) they have to ingest just to keep up. I think I got my first ounce of fat at 27 y/o. Was very easy to have a 6-pack for a while.



So what was the point of spending to get Stepan, Galchenyuk and Gudbranson?

Because they had no clue if Jimmy Norris and Zub could hold their own in the NHL and a team can’t go into a season without actual NHL players. they grabbed some guys on one year contracts that were known to be good guys that they thought would have a good work ethic and attitude to show the young guys. It was used as a double edge sword also making the guys fight for a NHL spot.

 

[God Says No]

Because they had no clue if Jimmy Norris and Zub could hold their own in the NHL and a team can’t go into a season without actual NHL players. they grabbed some guys on one year contracts that were known to be good guys that they thought would have a good work ethic and attitude to show the young guys. It was used as a double edge sword also making the guys fight for a NHL spot.

No problem with getting some good vets as placeholders. Two problems though from the crop that Dorion got.

1) Got too many. No need for so many vets this past offseason.
2) They were not good. Hence the bolded.

Bonus problem: They overpaid for them.