Player Discussion Matt Murray (G) - 4 years, $6.25M AAV

[Do Make Say Think]

Kind of insane that people are worried about a 6 x 4 contract.

He's been a disappointment but that contract doesn't worry me at all.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Emery was amazing that year, and in the finals he was solid. Team had a ton of confidence so it’s hard to say. But Emery/Hasek would of been better then Emery/Gerber.

side note that having Hasek probably means Emery doesn’t get his huge contract so quickly just based on the fact he wouldn’t of gotten the starts. I think when Emery got that contract what happens to so many players happened to him - pressure, other worlds open up for you, interests outside of hockey nip away at your game and then what you were - a starting NHL goalie slowly skips away and you have to start over. Ray did all this things and got his game back, won a Cup.

but yes, Hasek here would of been the best for everyone.

hasek was pushed out by Murray because we were winning a game like 6-2 and Heater and Spezza kept playing offence and the other team started getting chances - Hasek shut the door but came off the ice and critiqued the big line saying they aren’t playing to win they are playing to score and nobody is reigning them in (Murray) and that kind of kicked off the bad blood and Hasek’s lose of heart and faith in the team.

it happened too when Redden was injured, the game he came back we were winning and ended up losing because Heater and Soezza only wanted to keep playing offense despite having enough goals to win. Redden lost it on them and apparently reemed them out and gave a presser saying the team wasn’t playing to win and needed to refocus. They kinda did but it was obviously always a struggle between the veterans who knew how to win and the kids who thought they were there to only play offenders and score goals.

aflie touched on this on the Wally show. He said Spezze saw himself as an offensive guy and he and Alfie didn’t see or play the game the same way.

Don’t know that story. I did hear a story that Murray wanted to re sign hasek and hasek wanted to come back and he was willing to take less money. Redden and a couple other vets said they would not play on the same team as him.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Kind of insane that people are worried about a 6 x 4 contract.

He's been a disappointment but that contract doesn't worry me at all.

Kind of insane that people are worried about a 6 x 4 contract.

He's been a disappointment but that contract doesn't worry me at all.

We’re broke. He’s making 8 million those last two years. That hurts.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

We’re broke. He’s making 8 million those last two years. That hurts.

Plenty of time for him to turn things around before years 3 and 4. It could end up a disaster but it is way too early to worry about that.

We need to fix the D. Without that, no goalie can look good here.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Kind of insane that people are worried about a 6 x 4 contract.

He's been a disappointment but that contract doesn't worry me at all.

a 6M X 4 contract on the cheapest team in the league is a big blow if the player doesn't perform to even half their contract.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Give him time. He was really good tonight.

 

[Tuna99]

Don’t know that story. I did hear a story that Murray wanted to re sign hasek and hasek wanted to come back and he was willing to take less money. Redden and a couple other vets said they would not play on the same team as him.

rewatch the season ending press conference, Murray is asked directly and he says no. Muckler says he is interested

I know Mike Fisher said he couldn’t understand why Hasek would t play because in practice no one could score on him. And apparently Alfie asked him to play in the Buffalo series and Hazel said no. I think the players thought he was good to go but Hasek wouldn’t play.

 

[Tuna99]

a 6M X 4 contract on the cheapest team in the league is a big blow if the player doesn't perform to even half their contract.

you gotta think Melnyck is in Barbados sun burn red reaming out Dorion. I think this move could cost Dorion his job.

 

[JMACole]

At this point Murray is probably hoping he gets picked by Seattle. It’s been a miserable time for him here.

 

[Micklebot]

so how do we get out of this one?

Well, if out D keep playing the way they are he might pull a groin badly or something and we can LTIR him...


Ooooor......this is all part of the master plan to draft Power,

Then we can pair him with Max Guinette and have the Max-Power pairing. Sure, Guinette might not be NHL ready but it will all be worth it for that sweet, sweet pairing Nick name.

 

[Tuna99]

You wonder where Murray’s head is at: every intention of coming in here and being a leader for the team and buy into the rebuild. But man alive, he has to start doubting himself and wondering how he finds his game. Lots of positives on his memory bank to go to but you can’t be laying in bed last night thinking it’s a just a tweak here or there. Pucks go through him and he doesn’t follow the play very well, he’s not moving on rebounds and he doesn’t even have stretches of solid play.

 

[TkachukMyAho]

Yeah, this isn't on Murray. He's not helping, but it's incredibly difficult for a goalie to pump up the give a **** meter when you know you're getting absolutely curb stomped. He'll rebound when the team helps him out. I'm not concerned about this.

 

[SensFactor]

Dorion's coffin nail contract.

 

[Xspyrit]

As a goalie myself, I feel bad for any goalie that would have to play behind that kind of defense. When I say defense, I'm talking about the whole team. Coaching is equally responsible for this mess. I have seen less talented defenses play more conservative/structured and not get abused as much. Players are totally lost out there. I'm sure Guy Boucher would be able to make this more respectable.

This is something you see in beer leagues (personally never seen that in amateur leagues) when there's absolutely no structure, when the players don't know how to position themselves, when they just can't get out of the zone and constantly turn it over, when they give out crazy amounts of time and space, when they get beat or outmuscled to every puck and the "house" (the slot) is a FREE ZONE. When that happens, all you can do is laugh and see it as "practice", but this is beer league, it doesn't matter. Personally, in that situation, I try to make highlight reel saves, even try to cheat a bit to offer the glove side then rob the shooter with the glove lol. Just having fun out there.

I think the Oilers had 4 easy 2 on 1 in the 3rd period alone as they had already scored 7 goals. This is is insanity, they also had 2 posts in that period. Murray made several great saves. Oilers could have easily scored 15 goals in this game. I don't think I have ever seen that before in the NHL. Personally, I can't remember a team being abused that often, at least not in the 2000's. But it's true that the Penguins 2003-04/2005-06 were also pretty bad overall, and particularly defensively. So maybe there is hope? lol

The only thing I have for the team's defense is that they play all their games in the north division where you have guys like McDavid/Draisaitl/Matthews/Schefeile/Connor/etc who can heavily outmatch you when you play in their rink. Last night on TVA they showed a stat when McDavid and Draisaitl are paired together and they had scored 41 GF vs 4 GA. Sure, this probably include PP but this is crazy nonetheless

So really, the only argument I see to defend Dorion/DJ/etc is COVID. No hockey for 10 months, no real training camp, then all games vs mostly deadly offenses.

At this point Murray is probably hoping he gets picked by Seattle. It’s been a miserable time for him here.

If money wasn't a factor, I'd request to terminate the contract myself and sign on a team with some kind of structure and go from there. Even if the only job available is backup. Like Boston for example, both Rask and Halak are UFAs at the end of the season. Rask just turned 34 y/o and Halak wil be 36 y/o soon.

We probably have already destroyed Hogberg's career this season, could do the same to Murray and possibly Daccord if Murray isn't here to take the heat.

 

[Fuhrious]

As a goalie myself, I feel bad for any goalie that would have to play behind that kind of defense. When I say defense, I'm talking about the whole team. Coaching is equally responsible for this mess. I have seen less talented defenses play more conservative/structured and not get abused as much. Players are totally lost out there. I'm sure Guy Boucher would be able to make this more respectable.

This is something you see in beer leagues (personally never seen that in amateur leagues) when there's absolutely no structure, when the players don't know how to position themselves, when they just can't get out of the zone and constantly turn it over, when they give out crazy amounts of time and space, when they get beat or outmuscled to every puck and the "house" (the slot) is a FREE ZONE. When that happens, all you can do is laugh and see it as "practice", but this is beer league, it doesn't matter. Personally, in that situation, I try to make highlight reel saves, even try to cheat a bit to offer the glove side then rob the shooter with the glove lol. Just having fun out there.

I think the Oilers had 4 easy 2 on 1 in the 3rd period alone as they had already scored 7 goals. This is is insanity, they also had 2 posts in that period. Murray made several great saves. Oilers could have easily scored 15 goals in this game. I don't think I have ever seen that before in the NHL. Personally, I can't remember a team being abused that often, at least not in the 2000's. But it's true that the Penguins 2003-04/2005-06 were also pretty bad overall, and particularly defensively. So maybe there is hope? lol

The only thing I have for the team's defense is that they play all their games in the north division where you have guys like McDavid/Draisaitl/Matthews/Schefeile/Connor/etc who can heavily outmatch you when you play in their rink. Last night on TVA they showed a stat when McDavid and Draisaitl are paired together and they had scored 41 GF vs 4 GA. Sure, this probably include PP but this is crazy nonetheless

So really, the only argument I see to defend Dorion/DJ/etc is COVID. No hockey for 10 months, no real training camp, then all games vs mostly deadly offenses.



If money wasn't a factor, I'd request to terminate the contract myself and sign on a team with some kind of structure and go from there. Even if the only job available is backup. Like Boston for example, both Rask and Halak are UFAs at the end of the season. Rask just turned 34 y/o and Halak wil be 36 y/o soon.

We probably have already destroyed Hogberg's career this season, could do the same to Murray and possibly Daccord if Murray isn't here to take the heat.

Replied, because I agree with everything you say and one "like" wasnt enough.

Probably the most difficult part of reading these forums lately, is watching people shit all over Murray for games like last night. Has he been a Vezina candidate? Not even close. Has he had some bad games? Certainly. Watching him get absolutely lit up night in and night out, plays like McDavid's goal last night where the best player in the world is standing undefended in the slot and allowed to first touch snipe a shot, then tabbing over to the GDT and seeing people screeching that Murray "should have had that"...it's just ridiculous. This team's defense is utterly shambolic, his confidence has to be absolutely shot.

 

[inthewings]

Kind of insane that people are worried about a 6 x 4 contract.

He's been a disappointment but that contract doesn't worry me at all.

It's not a binary worried/not worried thing. This team operates on a very tight budget. Every dollar that isn't well-spent hinders their ability to compete. If Murray doesn't play like a $6M goalie, the team will suffer.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

rewatch the season ending press conference, Murray is asked directly and he says no. Muckler says he is interested

I know Mike Fisher said he couldn’t understand why Hasek would t play because in practice no one could score on him. And apparently Alfie asked him to play in the Buffalo series and Hazel said no. I think the players thought he was good to go but Hasek wouldn’t play.

Right muckler. I thought Murray became GM after that first season but he did not.

Murray had quite the ego. (RIP) yeah I doubt he would let that go

 

[Xspyrit]

You wonder where Murray’s head is at: every intention of coming in here and being a leader for the team and buy into the rebuild. But man alive, he has to start doubting himself and wondering how he finds his game. Lots of positives on his memory bank to go to but you can’t be laying in bed last night thinking it’s a just a tweak here or there. Pucks go through him and he doesn’t follow the play very well, he’s not moving on rebounds and he doesn’t even have stretches of solid play.

If I was Murray, I wouldn't doubt myself that much. He's proven in half of the games (and well in the past) that he can be solid when the team in front of him provides NHL level team defense/structure but sure, that kind of game kills your morale. He was absolutely deflated after the 5th goal. After an awful 1st period, he wanted the team to have a strong rest of the game and made several key/hard stops but the Sens kept GIFTING PPs and glorious chances (to the 2 best players in the world, no less), Oilers eventually scored.

Just the first 2 GA says pretty much all you need to know (well 3rd, 4th and 5th too)

On the 1st GA, the Oilers connected for at least 30 OZ passes IN A ROW. This is madness. Nobody can disrupt that? Make a defensive play? Deflect the puck out of play? Intercept a pass and flip it in the NZ? Block a shot and get it out of danger? It seriously looked like a 5 on 3. Of course it leads to a goal against at the NHL level. Oilers created chaos, lot of movement/traffic, Sens way behind the play, losing EVERY battle for the puck (speed/physicality) and then Watson trying to block the shot deflects it into his own net while 2 other players are in the shot's lane.

2nd GA, well not much to say outside of that's not a smart play by White. Like pretty much every Senator for the first 2 periods, he's fighting the puck and instead of flipping it in a safe area, tries an (inacurate) cross ice pass that gets intercepted while 2 Sens on the far right probably already had their head on the bench and then a 2 on 0 occurs. Most NHL players don't have a lot of difficulty executing that. Tierney and Brown would have missed.

It's really not just because "he's inconsistent" lol, it's the team in front him that get totally abused on some nights. Even if he totally STANDS ON HIS HEAD, it's 4/5 to nothing after 2 periods and your team only had 4 meaningless shots at that point. I mean for anybody who knows/understands hockey, it's pretty easy to see. I think we laid only 1 "egg" at home, a 6-3 loss vs Calgary. I'd say that it happened approximatively 10/18 games on the road.

Home : 5-6-1 (25th in P%), 36 GF, 36 GA (which is 3.0 GF/GP and 3.0 GA/GP)
Road : 4-13-0 (31st in P%), 39 GF, 79 GA (which is 2.29 GF/GP and 4.65 GA/GP)

Very simple, we get totally abused on the road. It's not just because Murray selectively decides to "suck" on the road. I mean, common people, use your brain.

Murray at home : 0.909 SV%
Murray on the road : 0.840 SV%

 

[Fuhrious]

On the 1st GA, the Oilers connected for at least 30 OZ passes IN A ROW. This is madness. Nobody can disrupt that? Make a defensive play? Deflect the puck out of play? Intercept a pass and flip it in the NZ? Block a shot and get it out of danger? It seriously looked like a 5 on 3. Of course it leads to a goal against at the NHL level. Oilers created chaos, lot of movement/traffic, Sens way behind the play, losing EVERY battle for the puck (speed/physicality) and then Watson trying to block the shot deflects it into his own net while 2 other players are in the shot's lane.

Bolded is the part that does my head in, game in and game out. They connected on at least 30 OZ passes in a row...and were maybe slightly pressured on only a handful of them. Someone in the GDT commented that it looked like the Washington Generals out there, and they werent far off. How in the world should Murray know when and from where to expect a shot attempt, when the Oilers are casually wheeling the puck all around the OZ for almost an entire minute?

 

[Xspyrit]

Replied, because I agree with everything you say and one "like" wasnt enough.

Probably the most difficult part of reading these forums lately, is watching people shit all over Murray for games like last night. Has he been a Vezina candidate? Not even close. Has he had some bad games? Certainly. Watching him get absolutely lit up night in and night out, plays like McDavid's goal last night where the best player in the world is standing undefended in the slot and allowed to first touch snipe a shot, then tabbing over to the GDT and seeing people screeching that Murray "should have had that"...it's just ridiculous. This team's defense is utterly shambolic, his confidence has to be absolutely shot.

Thanks. For me, it's very easy to see because it's things I have experienced as a goalie. You know when the team in front of you fight for every inch on the ice, when they clear out rebounds, when there's a structure in place and won't allow the house (slot) at free will. Even in beer leagues, people try to not deflect the puck in your own net and give you a chance to see the puck. They know you have to be even more careful to not turn it over in dangerous areas and not try to pass it across in the slot. I think it just goes way too fast for too many of our players. Reality is we don't have many top-6 forwards and a top-4 D-men. Stutzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Dadonov, Chabot, Brannstrom, Zub will be/should be but outside of them (most are heavily inexperienced), it's mostly bottom-6 forwards and bottom pairing D-men. We don't have a lot of seasoned/established talent. That's why I quickly got disillusioned with how the off-season went. It's not about the quantity of vets but the quality. People told me yeah but Stutzle, Norris, Batherson, etc will be given prime roles. But that's a bit the problem. They have basically no veteran to lean on, they are not "insolated" at all.

No, Murray hasn't been a savior, yes his contract/AAV was premature and is backfiring (Dorion's trademark) but there's also not much he can do. Even if he stands on his head and clean EVERY bad goal, the team still get bent over (on the road).

And agreed on "should have had that", most of the time, people making these comments have no idea. Have you ever played goalie? It seems like yu did? The only goal Murray "should have had" is the 6th goal (Neal) as it was only partially screened. It was a good shot but his reaction/positionning wasn't good enough, however he also looked totally deflated at that point. That's what happens when you get abused like that and your team has 4 meaningless shots on goal.

Almost every GA is possible to save in theory but that requires either a spectacular save (like he did on Draisaitl at the beginning of the 2nd) or a very tough save (he made plenty of them despite giving up 7 GA lol). The problem is you can't expect your goalie to save all chances like the 3rd and 4th GA, particularly when it's ELITE players like Drai and McDavid. You keep gift wrapping them chances like that, in the end they are going to score some goals. We just can't defend against talent like that consistently, particularly on the road when they get their favorable matchups.

Bolded is the part that does my head in, game in and game out. They connected on at least 30 OZ passes in a row...and were maybe slightly pressured on only a handful of them. Someone in the GDT commented that it looked like the Washington Generals out there, and they werent far off. How in the world should Murray know when and from where to expect a shot attempt, when the Oilers are casually wheeling the puck all around the OZ for almost an entire minute?

Crazy that it was 5 on 5, it looked so easy for the oilers, at least like a 5 on 4, maybe even 4 on 3

Another thing is it gets hard for a goalie when a team is buzzing for extended periods like that. You don't really have the time to "breathe" and your equipment becomes heavy. Keep in mind, your gear weighs about 50 pounds. People who think it's "easy" to move all over the place, well no.

So many things to say but I'd add that playing from behind is also not easy. Your team gets bent over early, you are trying your best to not give up the first goal but then it happens. Your team needs to turn the momentum around and get scoring chances, tie the game. The pressure is added, you can't make a mistake or give up another goal to not have your team fall into a hole. Keep in mind, in the NHL, the team who scores the first goal win 67% of the time. On the subject :

Behind the Numbers: Scoring first and conditional probability

Note : sorry I can't like any post at the moment lol

 

[Fuhrious]

Thanks. For me, it's very easy to see because it's things I have experienced as a goalie. You know when the team in front of you fight for every inch on the ice, when they clear out rebounds, when there's a structure in place and won't allow the house (slot) at free will. Even in beer leagues, people try to not deflect the puck in your own net and give you a chance to see the puck. They know you have to be even more careful to not turn it over in dangerous areas and not try to pass it across in the slot. I think it just goes way too fast for too many of our players. Reality is we don't have many top-6 forwards and a top-4 D-men. Stutzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Dadonov, Chabot, Brannstrom, Zub will be/should be but outside of them (most are heavily inexperienced), it's mostly bottom-6 forwards and bottom pairing D-men. We don't have a lot of seasoned/established talent. That's why I quickly got disillusioned with how the off-season went. It's not about the quantity of vets but the quality. People told me yeah but Stutzle, Norris, Batherson, etc will be given prime roles. But that's a bit the problem. They have basically no veteran to lean on, they are not "insolated" at all.

No, Murray hasn't been a savior, yes his contract/AAV was premature and is backfiring (Dorion's trademark) but there's also not much he can do. Even if he stands on his head and clean EVERY bad goal, the team still get bent over (on the road).

And agreed on "should have had that", most of the time, people making these comments have no idea. Have you ever played goalie? It seems like yu did? The only goal Murray "should have had" is the 6th goal (Neal) as it was only partially screened. It was a good shot but his reaction/positionning wasn't good enough, however he also looked totally deflated at that point. That's what happens when you get abused like that and your team has 4 meaningless shots on goal.

Almost every GA is possible to save in theory but that requires either a spectacular save (like he did on Draisaitl at the beginning of the 2nd) or a very tough save (he made plenty of them despite giving up 7 GA lol). The problem is you can't expect your goalie to save all chances like the 3rd and 4th GA, particularly when it's ELITE players like Drai and McDavid. You keep gift wrapping them chances like that, in the end they are going to score some goals. We just can't defend against talent like that consistently, particularly on the road when they get their favorable matchups.



Crazy that it was 5 on 5, it looked so easy for the oilers, at least like a 5 on 4, maybe even 4 on 3

Another thing is it gets hard for a goalie when a team is buzzing for extended periods like that. You don't really have the time to "breathe" and your equipment becomes heavy. Keep in mind, your gear weighs about 50 pounds. People who think it's "easy" to move all over the place, well no.

So many things to say but I'd add that playing from behind is also not easy. Your team gets bent over early, you are trying your best to not give up the first goal but then it happens. Your team needs to turn the momentum around and get scoring chances, tie the game. The pressure is added, you can't make a mistake or give up another goal to not have your team fall into a hole. Keep in mind, in the NHL, the team who scores the first goal win 67% of the time. On the subject :

Behind the Numbers: Scoring first and conditional probability

Note : sorry I can't like any post at the moment lol

Yep, goaltender here as well.

I'm not trying to say that Murray hasnt laid a few absolute stinkers, and let in some goals he should probably have stopped. That said, I dont recall many/any goals like Koskinen allowed to Dadonov the other night, either. Watching the 2nd period highlights (I couldnt stomach the Oilers announcers and turned the game off after the 1st), he makes a couple pretty spectacular saves on Draisaitl and RNH.

At the end of the day, there really isnt a great answer. He's getting zero help from the team (coaching staff included, for setting them up / sending them out like this), Hogberg has serious fundamental issues to work through, and it's in the team's best interest to not shatter D'accord's confidence. I legitimately have no clue what else you can do besides ride Murray into the ground and hope DJ and the team figure it out.

Definitely isnt fair to the player to constantly windmill slam abuse onto him for something that's as much if not more a team failure as it is an individual one, at least to my mind.

 

[Hale The Villain]

a 6M X 4 contract on the cheapest team in the league is a big blow if the player doesn't perform to even half their contract.

The sad thing is that Murray's contract isn't really a 6M x 4 contract.

He makes 4M this year, 6M next year, 7M the third year and 8M the final year.

Starting next season it becomes a 7M x 3 contract.

 

[OD99]

The sad thing is that Murray's contract isn't really a 6M x 4 contract.

He makes 4M this year, 6M next year, 7M the third year and 8M the final year.

Starting next season it becomes a 7M x 3 contract.

It's as perplexing now as the day it was signed.

Horrible D aside he is full of holes and pucks find their way through him in a shocking manner.

This is NOT to dismiss the fact he needs a lot more help in our zone but there are plenty of soft goals on their own to show he just isn't playing well and recent history doesn't give a lot of evidence to suggest he will turn it around.

 

[foggyvisor]

Any goalie can go from bad to good and vice versa in one half season. Matt Murray could suddenly be awesome again. If he was awesome now, he might be shit next season.

They play so randomly that you can't render judgement. You just get lucky or unlucky. Might as well hold onto him.

 

[OD99]

Any goalie can go from bad to good and vice versa in one half season. Matt Murray could suddenly be awesome again. If he was awesome now, he might be shit next season.

They play so randomly that you can't render judgement. You just get lucky or unlucky. Might as well hold onto him.

This is true but Murray has been bad for a lot longer than 1/2 a season now.

His contract is also in the penthouse and should be reserved for top goalies, not a guy you hope can get on a hot streak - he should be consistently good with incredible hot streaks and the occasional cold spells.