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Marty St. Louis

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Fletch said:
I don't think there are many trades that Sather has completed while with NYR that the fan base agreed with.
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That maybe true, but that goes to his sterling track record.

We have both done the dark years part when the next shining toy was brought in and draft picks thrown out. All with no game plan or strategy. Hopefully I am wrong, but this smacks a lot like that.
 
True Blue said:
Maybe Nash can learn how to go to the net in a straight line ever? Or maybe we can stop overpassing the puck on the perimeter?
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I honestly have no idea what to think about Nash. I always liked him. I have been a pretty big defender of the trade. But looking at the Nash and St. Louis deals, there's a common thread of the Rangers trading home-grown character for other team's skill. Not working out so well. Nash is starting to look like Lindros after his concussion in SJ.
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
I honestly have no idea what to think about Nash. I always liked him. I have been a pretty big defender of the trade.
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Cannot perform under pressure. And cannot do what is necessary to do in the playoffs. In the regular season, his perimeter prancing leads to goals. In the playoffs, he needs to be a bull. He does not want to drive to the net.
But looking at the Nash and St. Louis deals, there's a common thread of the Rangers trading home-grown character for other team's skill. Not working out so well.
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And has never worked. Which again, was a hallmark of the dark years.
Nash is starting to look like Lindros after his concussion in SJ.
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He has never been one to look for physical contact.
 
One of the problems is that the Rangers have been able to produce fairly consistent home grown character but haven't got anything resembling home-grown skill. Kreider is the closest thing and he's not gonna lay down 40 a season any time soon. Glen's solution every summer is to go out and try trade for or sign skill, which is how we end up with the Drury/Gomez/Redden/Gaborik (he actually was great for us for a while)/Richards/Nash/MSL's of the world.

Nash and to a degree, the whole team, is playing Tom Renney Hockey. Tons and tons of shots, but they're all bad angles or limp wristers into the chest/pads. You don't win a hockey game by shot total.
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
I honestly have no idea what to think about Nash. I always liked him. I have been a pretty big defender of the trade. But looking at the Nash and St. Louis deals, there's a common thread of the Rangers trading home-grown character for other team's skill. Not working out so well. Nash is starting to look like Lindros after his concussion in SJ.
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SBOB, that's exactly what I've been trying to say.

When I was a kid, and Lindros came into the league as "the next one," he was a machine! His power-foward style completely changed the game in that era. I wanted him when the Norddiques trade fell through, and I hated him when he made our lives as Ranger fans a living hell, but good lord, that guy could muscle through a game.

[Concussions]

Flash forward to his days when he was finally a Ranger. Although he still had his hands, and the papers called him the E-train, this was no longer the Lindros of my youth. He started to play a perimeter game, and as a power forward by nature, he was no longer the impact player he once was.

I don't have any direct footage to show, but I'v e seen Rick cutting back to the blue line more than cutting to the slot, and after a few times he did that , my mind flashed to Lindros.
 
Wamsutta said:
One of the problems is that the Rangers have been able to produce fairly consistent home grown character but haven't got anything resembling home-grown skill. Kreider is the closest thing and he's not gonna lay down 40 a season any time soon. Glen's solution every summer is to go out and try trade for or sign skill, which is how we end up with the Drury/Gomez/Redden/Gaborik (he actually was great for us for a while)/Richards/Nash/MSL's of the world.
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Unfortunately that problem is actually the organizational philosophy. I've seen several interviews with Gordie Clark where he's basically said that the Rangers are using the draft to supplement the high end guys they'll be adding as free agents. They buy into the notion that you cannot find high-end talent where they tend to pick in the draft. Meanwhile teams like Tampa, Dallas, Anaheim, Chicago, and St. Louis have all managed to pull key pieces out of the late first and beyond.
 
Trxjw said:
Unfortunately that problem is actually the organizational philosophy. I've seen several interviews with Gordie Clark where he's basically said that the Rangers are using the draft to supplement the high end guys they'll be adding as free agents. They buy into the notion that you cannot find high-end talent where they tend to pick in the draft. Meanwhile teams like Tampa, Dallas, Anaheim, Chicago, and St. Louis have all managed to pull key pieces out of the late first and beyond.
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I knew that was the Rangers approach but it's depressing to hear them actually confirm it. In addition to the teams you listed, I look at the Bruins as an example of how you build a long-term contender in today's NHL. You keep the core together, you build on it through the draft and a strong system, and you fill in some holes with intelligent UFA signings and some smart trading. Swapping all of your draft picks for the hot ticket UFA of the season, Rangers style, doesn't work anymore, because even though nobody has told Glen Sather, it's not the 1980s.
 
Wamsutta said:
I knew that was the Rangers approach but it's depressing to hear them actually confirm it. In addition to the teams you listed, I look at the Bruins as an example of how you build a long-term contender in today's NHL. You keep the core together, you build on it through the draft and a strong system, and you fill in some holes with intelligent UFA signings and some smart trading. Swapping all of your draft picks for the hot ticket UFA of the season, Rangers style, doesn't work anymore, because even though nobody has told Glen Sather, it's not the 1980s.
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Now now. Don't be so hard on Sather. Although other issues were occurring at the times of these trades, Glen Sather has been involved in many trades that turned out to reap huge benefits for the Rangers:

Mark Messier
Adam Graves
Esa Tikkanen
Jeff Beukeboom
Kevin Lowe
Craig MacTavish

All of these trades that Sather was involved in helped a lot!

It may have been prior to Y2K, but let's not be too myopic.
 
I will admit Marty has not been playing as well as he did in the past or as well as I hoped he would play. What I do not understand is why some people seem happy about it.
 
NickyFotiu said:
What I do not understand is why some people seem happy about it.
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No one is happy about it. We all want to see him score and for the team to advance. The trade detractors (such as myself) are unhappy with what they are seeing as it underscores why some (at least me) believe that the trade was a bad one. His play so far has not been worth sacrificing of draft picks.
 
True Blue said:
No one is happy about it. We all want to see him score and for the team to advance. The trade detractors (such as myself) are unhappy with what they are seeing as it underscores why some (at least me) believe that the trade was a bad one. His play so far has not been worth sacrificing of draft picks.
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Exactly. Well said.
 
Trxjw said:
Unfortunately that problem is actually the organizational philosophy. I've seen several interviews with Gordie Clark where he's basically said that the Rangers are using the draft to supplement the high end guys they'll be adding as free agents. They buy into the notion that you cannot find high-end talent where they tend to pick in the draft. Meanwhile teams like Tampa, Dallas, Anaheim, Chicago, and St. Louis have all managed to pull key pieces out of the late first and beyond.
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People act like we have not.
 
Trxjw said:
Where are they now? Traded for "elite talent". Meanwhile, other teams are letting those players fill important roles with their organization.
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Which is why the Rangers payroll is always high and the roster is always lacking.

For a brief moment, there was a team that was better than the sum of its parts, that was filled with mostly homegrown players. Those players bled together and played FOR each other.
 
Gardner McKay said:
People act like we have not.
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It feels like most of the guys we get in the late 1st/beyond are just treated as stop-gaps/cup-of-tea guys until we either bury them back in the AHL or find someone to trade for that will muscle the draftee out of their spot, leading to the draftee becoming "redundant" and traded. Then we end up with a team of mercs outside of maybe half a dozen players like we have now.
 
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Trxjw said:
Where are they now? Traded for "elite talent". Meanwhile, other teams are letting those players fill important roles with their organization.
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Outside of the Rick Nash trade, what key pieces have we traded? At the same time I would argue that guys like Stepan, Staal, Hagelin are at worst somewhat key pieces. Montreal traded a key piece to us in McDonagh. We found Girardi. What about Stralman? Boyle has been a damn good player for us. Too bad we didn't have the 3rd rounder we traded for him as I am sure the pick would have turned into a franchise altering player. I don't think any one will argue with the Klein for Del Zotto trade. What about the Gaborik trade where we recouped some serious depth?

Just because we didn't draft them you act as if they don't exist or are not important. You are seeing this as you want to see it rather than how it actually is. So again, other than the Nash trade (where we we did give up roster players) and the St. Louis trade where we gave up draft picks and a guy we weren't going to re sign anyway, what exactly are you trying to say? It seems as if you are using two trades as the basis of this notion that we have been doing it for the last 10 years.

We are a tired team that has been hosed by the NHL schedule makers. Just because we lost the last two, it isn't cause for blowing the team up or any other equally ridiculous idea.
 
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Gardner McKay said:
Outside of the Rick Nash trade, what key pieces have we traded?
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How about the draft picks used to acquire Nash and MSL? Those are pretty key pieces as well.
I am pretty sure that I made myself clear. The Nash trade and the MSL trade undid what was being built as a solid foundation.
We are a tired team that has been hosed by the NHL schedule makers. Just because we lost the last two, it isn't cause for blowing the team up or any other equally ridiculous idea.
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we are a tired team, but the rest is excuses. Who is calling for a blowup?
 
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