Marty St. Louis

[Levitate]

Maybe the right thing to say was that they were not ready to play a 60 minute game. At all.

They still outplayed Philly over the general 60 minutes of the game. Sometimes you outplay a team and still lose, it happens. If anything it's more a point that this team needs its players to finish their chances, or in the end it's just not talented enough at scoring. It's not that they just don't play well and don't get chances because of it.

I am only pointing out that trading your Captain in the midst of a playoff push is no light matter.

Worked out fine from a player perspective IMO. I want more out of Marty but the Rangers really weren't relying on Callahan the way they used to and I think Marty has been a more valuable playoff player than Callahan would be.

 

[McRanger]

They still outplayed Philly over the general 60 minutes of the game. Sometimes you outplay a team and still lose, it happens. If anything it's more a point that this team needs its players to finish their chances, or in the end it's just not talented enough at scoring. It's not that they just don't play well and don't get chances because of it.

Worked out fine from a player perspective IMO. I want more out of Marty but the Rangers really weren't relying on Callahan the way they used to and I think Marty has been a more valuable playoff player than Callahan would be.

This sentence might destroy this forum and the entire interwebs.

 

[Trxjw]

What is more important? The impact in the locker room or the impact on the ice? None of us have any idea what impact Callahan had in the locker room. You can see the results on the ice.

You may think the team has been status quo but the numbers (and reality) seem to disagree with you. In the 20 games w/ St. Louis versus the 62 games w/Callahan the teams points per game has gone up (from .557 to .675 PPG) and their goal differential has gone way up (+0.08 to +1.00).

The numbers with Callahan have the Rangers missing the playoffs. The numbers with St. Louis have the Rangers winning the Metropolitan division, 7 points outside of the Presidents trophy.

Was St. Louis coming in the reason they have played so well? I can't say with much certainty. The only thing that seems certain is that they do not seem to miss Callahan much.

I could even understand if Callahan was some sort of epic playoff player. He's never been particularly effective in the playoffs. Certainly nowhere near St. Louis.

The argument should just stay with "Was it a good idea to trade assets for a 38 year old player". That argument can be made. Any argument comparing St. Louis to Callahan (intangibles included) is going to be ridiculously one sided.

And that is assuming Cally was a good captain. From all the complaining about the teams lack of heart and effort all year you would think he had no effect at all.

No, we don't know his impact in the locker room, but that doesn't mean you can dismiss it either. When the team struggles, fans pound the "lack of leadership" drum until their hands bleed, but when it comes to trade value, it's virtually meaningless? Not buying it.

The team also faced a significant number of teams post trade deadline who were well on their way to missing the playoffs. Of the 20 games the Rangers played, the 13 of them were against teams who missed the cut. A few of them finishing the season well below .500. So, once again, "the numbers" -- and "reality" apparently -- can be spun to suit just about whatever argument you want to make.

No, Callahan has never been a prolific playoff performer. At least not on the scoresheet. But he was a more potent performer in the 20 regular season games with Tampa than MSL was in his 20 games with New York. So how can one say with any certainty that Callahan would not have had a similar impact on the offensive success of the Rangers during that same span? Again, it's all subjective.

The argument could never, and would never, stay within the context you specified. Trades aren't examined in that sort of vacuum, nor should they be. Whether people want to admit it or not, the success of that trade is going to be determined by the success of the Rangers. The deal was made to increase their odds of winning a cup. So that's the measure for me.

That's my position, but as per usual, I'm certain that will be construed by many as me hoping for the team to fail.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Wow are people seriously pumping the "We would of lost with Callahan" crap? Let's compare notes shall we. It took Rangers 7 games yet again to advance, and the last game was not a 5 -0 victory against Washington. This year's Game 7 they led by 1 goal with plenty of game to play, anything could of happened. If Mason was healthy in the beginning of this series, Rangers would of been sent packing. The last 3 years with Callahan they have made at least to the 2nd round. Yeah he was not productive in the playoffs this year, but Tampa had a lot of issues, he was not one of them. Prior to this season's playoffs he had scored 8 goals in the last 30 Playoff games, much more than Nash has.

If someone has a crystal ball and knows this for a fact, well lets go to Vegas, my treat.

I agree with your last sentence.

Couldnt follow a single word of anything above it. Without MSL's 6 points, winning the series wouldve been a little tougher.

 

[Thirty One]

Is the "Nothing Can Happen" crowd hoping for the Rangers in the series? Serious question because the Rangers have zero chance against Boston and the 26th is a pending superstar.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Wow are people seriously pumping the "We would of lost with Callahan" crap? Let's compare notes shall we. It took Rangers 7 games yet again to advance, and the last game was not a 5 -0 victory against Washington. This year's Game 7 they led by 1 goal with plenty of game to play, anything could of happened. If Mason was healthy in the beginning of this series, Rangers would of been sent packing. The last 3 years with Callahan they have made at least to the 2nd round. Yeah he was not productive in the playoffs this year, but Tampa had a lot of issues, he was not one of them. Prior to this season's playoffs he had scored 8 goals in the last 30 Playoff games, much more than Nash has.

If someone has a crystal ball and knows this for a fact, well lets go to Vegas, my treat.

(mod) First of all here are all the problems with this silly post:

1) So because we won last year more decisively proves what exactly? The Rangers won the series last year and won game 7 because of Callahan? And won game 7 only 2-1 because they didn't have Callahan? The inane logic is making my head hurt. We won last year because Brassard dominated and Lundqvist dominated in the last 2 games. We got outplayed most of the series. Callahan was never a difference maker in that series or the playoffs in general. MSL was our best player. So what if we went 7 again? Does that mean we couldn't have lost in fewer games with Callahan? What does "there was plenty of time left" have to do with anything? Are you saying that with Callahan you know they'd even be in that situation? It's possible it doesn't even get to game 7 with Callahan.

2) Who cares what we did in the last 2 years with Callahan? He's not the only player on the team. He was never a difference maker.

3) If Mason were healthy we wouldn't win the series? Ok, first of all, with Callahan we would have won the series with Mason in net? He would have been the difference maker? Second, of all we won the 2 games by 3 goals, there's absolutely no guarantee that we would have lost either of those games. Also, I love how you're telling someone else that he has a crystal ball but no for sure we win with Mason and for your point to be relevant Callahan would have been the difference if Mason were in fact in.

4) Who the hell cares about Nash's production or lack thereof? Last time I checked he wasn't involved in the Callahan trade. No one is saying Nash is a good playoff performer. You're switching topics and grasping at straws.

(mod)

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This sentence might destroy this forum and the entire interwebs.

Exactly. People on HF find it very hard to grasp the fact of luck. I can't figure out if it's because they want to prove what ****ing competitors they are and how much they love winning or if they can't come to terms with the fact that sometimes life isn't fair. Maybe both.

 

[aufheben]

Hyperbole. Hyperbole everywhere.

 

[Thirty One]

Hyperbole. Hyperbole everywhere.

This comment is not valid.

Reason: No Buzz Lightyear Image

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Always easy to sweep those facts under the rug and continue to beat the same drum.

You do that constantly though... Everything has to be colored overly negative with you. It's your choice and as you said we had this debate but it's sad and frustrating to see you bring it up and derail over and over again for no real reason with multiple people in a variety of situations. Someone says MSL was "a difference maker" OOP! Gotta (mod edit) point out he's a failure because he's meant to be "THE difference maker". :

 

[aufheben]

 

[True Blue]

Also would not have found a completed trade, because that's a massacre for Tampa.

That is very debatable. MSL had the leverage. Yzerman needed to move him and MSL pointed out the only team that he was going to go to.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

THE difference maker seems to be fictional in a playoff race.

Why is everyone always looking for 1 guy to be the man in this sport?

 

[Thirty One]

Was that so hard?

THE difference maker seems to be fictional in a playoff race.

Why is everyone always looking for 1 guy to be the man in this sport?

Because they traded captain and elite stamp collector Ryan Callahan for him.

 

[True Blue]

Because they traded captain and elite stamp collector Ryan Callahan for him.

Yeah, that is what the fervor is about.

 

[Thirty One]

Yeah, that is what the fervor is about.

Maybe you can explain it better, then. You're the one leading the "THE MAN" charge.

 

[pld459666]

Is the "Nothing Can Happen" crowd hoping for the Rangers in the series? Serious question because the Rangers have zero chance against Boston and the 26th is a pending superstar.

I'm hoping for the Rangers to win this series.

I'm hoping that if the Bruins beat the Canadiens that Montreal does enough to form a foundation upon which to build a game plan that would benefit the Rangers.

Last night's showing was not a good start for Montreal regardless of result.

If they play the same way for the rest of the series, Boston will make short work of them unless Price stands on his head every game like he did last night.

Don't think the 26th is a superstar, but considering how putrid the system is, getting something from that pick is better than nothing.

 

[Thirty One]

Don't think the 26th is a superstar, but considering his putrid the system is, getting something from that pick is better than nothing.

Agreed, which is why I'm glad the Rangers traded it to get a 1st line winger.

 

[pld459666]

Agreed, which is why I'm glad the Rangers traded it to get a 1st line winger.

We have our opinions on if that was a sticking point in the negotiations.

I am of the opinion and belief that we did not have to make that selection conditional.

I think Sather got suckered on this one.

I have my opinions on Sather for a lot of things, but he is usually on the better end of trades.

I think he spit the bit on this one in a big way.

 

[Hire Sather]

We have our opinions on if that was a sticking point in the negotiations.

I am of the opinion and belief that we did not have to make that selection conditional.

I think Sather got suckered on this one.

I have my opinions on Sather for a lot of things, but he is usually on the better end of trades.

I think he spit the bit on this one in a big way.

There's no way anybody can say that, unless you can somehow read into Steve Yzerman's mind and know that he was willing to do a deal for less.

 

[pld459666]

There's no way anybody can say that, unless you can somehow read into Steve Yzerman's mind and know that he was willing to do a deal for less.

Concede that 100%

And that's where Sather gets suckered.

Should have held firm on the 2nd being JUST a 2nd.

I have no doubt that Yzerman blinks. My belief alone.

Callahan, 1st in 2015, 2nd in 2014 and a 7th for MSL is still a great deal and (IMHO) a slight overpayment.

making that pick convert to a 1st if we get to the ECF is just dumb.

It screams of desperation.

I think we are a better team with MSL than we are with Callahan. I believe that MSL gives us a better chance to upset the Femguins. I just believe that we are more than an upgrade on Callahan away from beating the bigger and stronger teams in the league and as talented as MSL is, I don't think he changes that dynamic at all.

So, I don't believe he should have overpaid to get a player that while he makes us better, doesn't improve us to the point of being able ot compete with the top teams in the NHL.

 

[Hire Sather]

Concede that 100%

And that's where Sather gets suckered.

Should have held firm on the 2nd being JUST a 2nd.

I have no doubt that Yzerman blinks. My belief alone.

Callahan, 1st in 2015, 2nd in 2014 and a 7th for MSL is still a great deal and (IMHO) a slight overpayment.

making that pick convert to a 1st if we get to the ECF is just dumb.

It screams of desperation.

I think we are a better team with MSL than we are with Callahan. I believe that MSL gives us a better chance to upset the Femguins. I just believe that we are more than an upgrade on Callahan away from beating the bigger and stronger teams in the league and as talented as MSL is, I don't think he changes that dynamic at all.

So, I don't believe he should have overpaid to get a player that while he makes us better, doesn't improve us to the point of being able ot compete with the top teams in the NHL.

Maybe Sather could have held out, but I believe if he does, the deal doesn't get done until the offseason. We'll never know for sure, though.

 

[pld459666]

Maybe Sather could have held out, but I believe if he does, the deal doesn't get done until the offseason. We'll never know for sure, though.

Quite honestly, I'd be OK with that.

I'm just real frustrated with the attempt at quick fixes and patch jobs that never address the problems this team faces.

I'm tired of the plan changing as the seasons change.

This franchise has no direction.

As a fan base we see the holes that this team has.

I can't believe that the Front office doesn't also see it. And because I believe that they DO see it, it infuriates me even more because they are doing nothing to address those defeciencies.

I'm happy we are in the PO's.

I'm happy that we won a round.

I hate going into the PO's hoping for a good effort regardless of result.

I don't care about losing if the team played well and gave a good accounting of itself. This team doesn't play well and lose. This team give a great effort in a period, gets scored on and seems so willing to fold.

Here's the effort I would like to see from the Rangers three out of every 4 games for 60 minutes.

Ducks in game 6 are up in the series 3-2 but they are losing game 6 4-2 with less than 5 minutes to go.

Rangers in that situation are more than comfortable mailing it in and playing game 7 at home.

Ducks? Played like THIER playoff lives were on the line.

Why is it so hard to get a consistently good effort from this team regardless of result?

way off topic, I know. but arrrgh

 

[Cassano]

Rangers won the swap as far as I'm concerned. With Callahan, they probably lose in five games.

Who needs beating a rival team in the playoffs when you can draft more sanguinetttis!

Winning second, draft choices first!

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Quite honestly, I'd be OK with that.

I'm just real frustrated with the attempt at quick fixes and patch jobs that never address the problems this team faces.

I'm tired of the plan changing as the seasons change.

This franchise has no direction.

As a fan base we see the holes that this team has.

I can't believe that the Front office doesn't also see it. And because I believe that they DO see it, it infuriates me even more because they are doing nothing to address those defeciencies.

I'm happy we are in the PO's.

I'm happy that we won a round.

I hate going into the PO's hoping for a good effort regardless of result.

I don't care about losing if the team played well and gave a good accounting of itself. This team doesn't play well and lose. This team give a great effort in a period, gets scored on and seems so willing to fold.

Here's the effort I would like to see from the Rangers three out of every 4 games for 60 minutes.

Ducks in game 6 are up in the series 3-2 but they are losing game 6 4-2 with less than 5 minutes to go.

Rangers in that situation are more than comfortable mailing it in and playing game 7 at home.

Ducks? Played like THIER playoff lives were on the line.

Why is it so hard to get a consistently good effort from this team regardless of result?

way off topic, I know. but arrrgh

Great post.