We should all stop posting, and every day just have the posts from exactly one year ago in whatever Marner thread was active at the times copy/pasted ITT. I wonder if anyone could tell the difference?This is just never ending, like an old school
Savardian spin-a-rama
What is our win record with Marner vs without last season?
What is our win record with Marner vs without last season?
not crying, and i did not mention last night ... that ice time difference is season to date after 6 games ... i asked a simple question ... do you believe his play this year warrants that much additional time?Nylander doesn’t PK, that was literally the difference. Why are we crying about 3 minutes. We took a shit ton of penalties and Marner is a primary PK guy on our team. Obviously on nights where we have to PK more Nylanders minutes will be down and Marner’s minutes will be up. It’s not rocket science. No need to cry about it. If not for the penalities I believe Nylander would have definitely lead in ice time last night.
Maybe that 5 years isn't ideal but it probably makes more sense that just picking the year before last.
Off the top of my head, a good way to do it would be to look at only the last 3 years. Give 50% weight to the most recent season, 30% to the season before that and 20% to the other one. Now it would take some time to do the math obviously but considering how much better Nylander was in this time frame compared to the others, I think he'd still come out looking pretty good.
This was posted by @mjd1001 in Sept 2023.
I rounded my numbers, but the big 4 over the last 5 years in the playoffs:
Matthews: 18% less points per game in the playoffs vs regular season
Marner: 24% less points per game in the playoffs
Nylander: 2% less points per game in the playoffs
Tavares: 27% less points per game in the playoffs.
Bottom line - Marner's regular season money in the back, Nylander's money in the bank in the playoffs.
Goals for and goals against, either way we're talking about goals, not a "whole combination of things".
It could be down to just a few extra shifts a game(starting of periods, after tv timeout, defensive zone) plus PK.not crying, and i did not mention last night ... that ice time difference is season to date after 6 games ... i asked a simple question ... do you believe his play this year warrants that much additional time?
not crying, and i did not mention last night ... that ice time difference is season to date after 6 games ... i asked a simple question ... do you believe his play this year warrants that much additional time?
I think more relevant than the simple numeric drop is the percentage drop.So I wanted to double check all numbers to make sure. Quickly ran them. @sunstersun is right. If you look at career numbers. Nylander is consistent all the way through, playoffs and regular season based on PPG.
You ACC are also technically correct, Nylander does score the least so his drop off would be less but may be more accurate to use the last 3 years where he’s been ppg
True, but players don't score 'wins' they score 'goals'.The point is 'wins' are all that matter, not goals.
Matthews has some crazy underlying numbers this year. Probably kicking himself blowing all those sweet setups.
5v5 among ALL players in the league:
Most shots on goal: Matthews
Most shot attempts on goal: Matthews
Most scoring chances: Matthews by a mile
Highest expected goals: Matthews by a mile
Shooting%: 9.09
Also, the Matthews and Marner combo havnt been on the ice for a 5v5 goal against so far this season.
M&M just need to keep playing the way they are playing and Im pretty sure Matthews shooting% will climb back closer to where it should be.
A player putting the puck into the net gives that player a goal in the stat column, but they are not the sole cause of the goal. Many times, they are not even the primary cause of the goal. That is why other stats are collected - primary and secondary assists - to capture impacts and contributions towards the goal that would otherwise be missed. When you were wrong about Marner, you attempted to isolate "goals" as special, but there is nothing that supports the idea that a goal is more valuable than at the very least a primary assist; in either contract or statistical analysis. You made an assumption about a phenomenon you were seeing with a couple players, and extrapolated that to a wider "rule", but you mistook one cause for another that correlates with it. Objectively, Marner got right around the range that he should have gotten.Goals are the person who puts the puck in the net.
you mention career ... i am asking about THIS season ...Yes because Marner spends more time on the PK. Also Marner was better than Nylander when they were younger. Now I think you can make the argument Nylander is better. So yes, that additional time has been warrented if we are talking over the career. I’m pretty sure Nylander is perfectly fine with his ice time. He’s very efficient with his ice time. I think currently there is very little difference in ice time. Maybe 30 seconds or less
Yes, he's played really well in all situations.you mention career ... i am asking about THIS season ...
This year:
ATOI
WN - 18:16
MM - 21:43
regardless of pp, pk or even strength - does mm's play warrant the extra ice time THIS YEAR ?
simple question, no one has answered that one
I'll answer it again. The difference is mainly PK time - 3 minutes per game. Mitch does it, Willy doesn't.you mention career ... i am asking about THIS season ...
This year:
ATOI
WN - 18:16
MM - 21:43
regardless of pp, pk or even strength - does mm's play warrant the extra ice time THIS YEAR ?
simple question, no one has answered that one
Where are you seeing the 5v5 stat?
All I can find is that Matthews has been on for 2 even strength goals, and Marner 4.
A player putting the puck into the net gives that player a goal in the stat column, but they are not the sole cause of the goal. Many times, they are not even the primary cause of the goal. That is why other stats are collected - primary and secondary assists - to capture impacts and contributions towards the goal that would otherwise be missed. When you were wrong about Marner, you attempted to isolate "goals" as special, but there is nothing that supports the idea that a goal is more valuable than at the very least a primary assist; in either contract or statistical analysis. You made an assumption about a phenomenon you were seeing with a couple players, and extrapolated that to a wider "rule", but you mistook one cause for another that correlates with it. Objectively, Marner got right around the range that he should have gotten.
We're not going to get anywhere on this. You have brought no evidence to support any of your claims. Your arguments have been debunked. You have dismissed all contradicting evidence and arguments against your claims, and pretended it doesn't exist. You're attempting to dismiss the fundamental act of playmaking, for goodness sake. The best player in the league is a playmaker. The best player off all time was a playmaker. Maybe take the hint.
You've dismissed every comparable (including ones that got more than him) except the one specific one you picked out, because they hurt your argument too much. You've dismissed every stat except the couple specific ones you picked out, because they hurt your argument too much. You've dismissed all critical context and supplementary information, because they hurt your argument too much. There seems to be no discussion left to be had here. If you want to believe that the 6th best pre-signing period earning the 10th highest value contract is some horrible thing so that you can be angry about having one of the best players in the world, then that's your choice. I hope you reflect on all of the information provided to you, in time.
You realize you are arguing with Chat GPT right?The best player of all time also led the league in goals. McDavid won the rocket. So did Crosby.
You defining players as “playmakers” or “snipers”’or “grinders”‘ has nothing to do with markets or contracts.
Sooooo pages and pages to ignore that goals are the most valuable part of the game and get paid the most.
You Refuse to provide a single historical precedent and no competing independent models or predictions. Every single analyst reported he got too much and was beyond the clearest comparables
You post pages about your theories on playmaking. That has noting to do with market place comparables.
If you are right. Why can you not provide a single peice of evidence.
Thank you!Via Natural Stat Trick
Even strength stats are OK over a huge sample size I guess but include empty net situations which can skew the intent of the stats and if we are talking about lines, 5v5 data is by far the best way to look at things.
When it comes to looking at the lines 5v5,
Marner/Matthews line: 0 goals given up this year.
Nylander/Domi line: 0 goals given up this year.
Tavares on any line: 1 goal given up all year.
Kampf line: 5 goals given up.
Some of this is good goaltending too of course but we all should be pretty pleased with how things are rolling. Tooling around with the 4th line is the biggest worry I guess.
how do you use chat gptYou realize you are arguing with Chat GPT right?
you mention career ... i am asking about THIS season ...
This year:
ATOI
WN - 18:16
MM - 21:43
regardless of pp, pk or even strength - does mm's play warrant the extra ice time THIS YEAR ?
simple question, no one has answered that one
not crying, and i did not mention last night ... that ice time difference is season to date after 6 games ... i asked a simple question ... do you believe his play this year warrants that much additional time?