Abbotsford Canucks | Season Starting

[RobertKron]

Lekkerimaki does too much Lekkerimaking out

 

[shottasasa]

I always wonder about this. I know some Comets fans hate him and see him as an absentee GM. Somehow he's been getting promotion after promotion from management past and present. I suspect that he's a good talker.

Generally being a good talker can get you by for a couple of years, but eventually results on KPIs need to be there. Hockey is no different. The trouble is we do t know what their KPIs are. How is team success measured? Cup or bust, make the playoffs regularly, or something else. Then there will be business/financial KPIs we really have no idea about as these are private orgs we have very little insight into. Then there are questions about order of priority.

So my only solid takeaway from Johnson not only staying employed, but also consistently getting promotions is that he is at least meeting or exceeding his KPIs, whatever they may be.

It’s also hard to know from the outside what successes and failures are really down to him other than tidbits that the hockey media occasionally bring up. Ie. Signing Joshua.

For the record, I also don’t really have a problem with the job he’s done.

 

[F A N]

Juulsen arrived as a 24 year old NHL depth option and is now a 27 year old NHL depth option. I'm sure his time in Abbotsford was useful, but I'm not sure I'd be citing as some kind of big developmental success story a guy who I'm not sure his career has necessarily even got back to where he was when he was a 18-20min guy asa 20-22yo in Montreal before he ran into injury problems.

I definitely wouldn't call Juulen a big developmental success story. But if Tocchet and the coaching staff can get credit for making Myers better then I think our player development (general umbrella) staff deserves some credit here.

Generally being a good talker can get you by for a couple of years, but eventually results on KPIs need to be there. Hockey is no different. The trouble is we do t know what their KPIs are. How is team success measured? Cup or bust, make the playoffs regularly, or something else. Then there will be business/financial KPIs we really have no idea about as these are private orgs we have very little insight into. Then there are questions about order of priority.

So my only solid takeaway from Johnson not only staying employed, but also consistently getting promotions is that he is at least meeting or exceeding his KPIs, whatever they may be.

It’s also hard to know from the outside what successes and failures are really down to him other than tidbits that the hockey media occasionally bring up. Ie. Signing Joshua.

For the record, I also don’t really have a problem with the job he’s done.

Johnson has added responsibilities over time but his primary role is leading player development staff. It sounds like the Canucks have done a good job of following up with the our prospects (only heard good things) but in terms of actually developing players we've seen very little success. Of course it could be due to our AHL coaching. His other job is that of an AHL GM which involves more of the day to day (singing ECHL guys etc.). I give him the benefit of the doubt there as I think Allvin plays a greater role in terms of team succes but certainly I would expect Johnson to be influential particularly when it comes to recommending players to call up.

We can talk about KPIs all we want but there are certainly hockey people who manage to keep their jobs for a long time. Take Chibisov. He was with the team since 1994 but we fired him (not sure if there is a greater story here). He was immediately picked up by Dallas (a competent organization). Was he suddenly not meeting KPIs? Our scouting of Russian prospects has been largely a failure but how much of that is his fault?

 

[RobertKron]

I definitely wouldn't call Juulen a big developmental success story. But if Tocchet and the coaching staff can get credit for making Myers better then I think our player development (general umbrella) staff deserves some credit here.

Myers is a whole other ball of yarn for a whole other thread.

I’m not saying they’ve done poorly by him or whatever, just that if him and DiGiuseppe are two of the first names someone is listing in their evidence of how well Johnson is doing developing players in Abbotsford, then they’re not really talking up Johnson as much as they might think they are.

 

[F A N]

Myers is a whole other ball of yarn for a whole other thread.

I’m not saying they’ve done poorly by him or whatever, just that if him and DiGiuseppe are two of the first names someone is listing in their evidence of how well Johnson is doing developing players in Abbotsford, then they’re not really talking up Johnson as much as they might think they are.

Oh completely agree. Player development has been an issue for a long time here.

 

[MS]

AHL GM has to be one of the most absentee jobs there is. As far as managing a sports team goes anyway. Like how the f*** do we know if RJ is any good when virtually all the players, and most of the roster decisions are made by the parent club? I guess he could've went out and got a vet goon type like Orcatown is always barking about. But so could have Allvin, and whole lot easier too i would think. If we need one so bad, RJ can't sign guys to NHL money, Allvin can.

As far as the on ice development of the prospects we do have. RJ has even less control there. He doesn't sign the coaches, or any of the development/training guys. How does a gm have more impact on young players than coaches? Might as well blame the Sedins at that point, but they're not an easy target are they?
Maybe some of this fan base was ruined by Heisinger days in Manitoba. But really he just found Burrows. RJ hasn't found his own Burrows for the same reason no other AHL gm's have found one. There was only one Burrows.

This is basically my take also. It’s a small job that people make out to be a huge thing.

90% of the roster in Abbotsford is determined by the Rutherford/Allvin and the NHL team. The coaches are hired by the Rutherford/Allvin and the NHL team.

The majority of the job of the AHL GM in terms of player personnel is signing a couple depth players to fill out the roster and then finding ECHLers to give PTOs to when there’s an injury crunch. Ryan Johnson’s job is tied up in dealing with guys like Chad Nychuk and Yushiroh Hirano, not Lekkerimakis and EP2s.

As for whether he’s doing a good job, I don’t really know and I don’t really know if it’s very easy to know or figure that out. The team is generally competitive and drama-free so that speaks reasonably well in his favour.

One thing I do agree with orcatown on is the lack of toughness and the awful Loewen signing last year to replace Arseneau. That would be Johnson and that was a problem. But other than that … meh. He’s not impacting much one way or another.

 

[VanJack]

This is basically my take also. It’s a small job that people make out to be a huge thing.

90% of the roster in Abbotsford is determined by the Rutherford/Allvin and the NHL team. The coaches are hired by the Rutherford/Allvin and the NHL team.

The majority of the job of the AHL GM in terms of player personnel is signing a couple depth players to fill out the roster and then finding ECHLers to give PTOs to when there’s an injury crunch. Ryan Johnson’s job is tied up in dealing with guys like Chad Nychuk and Yushiroh Hirano, not Lekkerimakis and EP2s.

As for whether he’s doing a good job, I don’t really know and I don’t really know if it’s very easy to know or figure that out. The team is generally competitive and drama-free so that speaks reasonably well in his favour.

One thing I do agree with orcatown on is the lack of toughness and the awful Loewen signing last year to replace Arseneau. That would be Johnson and that was a problem. But other than that … meh. He’s not impacting much one way or another.

I'm assuming that the GM's role, even at the AHL-level, involves a lot more than just player personnel.

I imagine he's responsible or all aspects of the hockey club, including things like marketing, promotions and ticket sales. So leaving aside the back-and-forth of the player personnel decision, it seems to me he's done a decent job off the ice and in the community.

But I could be wrong about that. Maybe somebody who lives in the Valley and follows the Abbotsford Canucks more closely than I do, can offer a comment.

 

[God]

We have Ryan Johnson to thank for finding Dakota Joshua, right?

 

[RobertKron]

I'm assuming that the GM's role, even at the AHL-level, involves a lot more than just player personnel.

I imagine he's responsible or all aspects of the hockey club, including things like marketing, promotions and ticket sales. So leaving aside the back-and-forth of the player personnel decision, it seems to me he's done a decent job off the ice and in the community.

But I could be wrong about that. Maybe somebody who lives in the Valley and follows the Abbotsford Canucks more closely than I do, can offer a comment.

The Canucks had a COO and were hiring for one in September to replace them. Their director of ticket sales and service reports to them, as does the communications and team services manager, and presumably marketing would as well.

I don’t know why one would assume that Johnson’s role would be to oversee strictly business ops stuff like that. Yes, it’s the farm team, but away from the hockey ops stuff this is still a pretty big business in which they’ve invested shitloads of money.

 

[Vector]

We have Ryan Johnson to thank for finding Dakota Joshua, right?

Listen, me and you are the only people who seem to know this.

 

[God]

Listen, me and you are the only people who seem to know this.

Yes! Well,

Deep diving into the detailed game Dakota Joshua brings to the Canucks

Dakota Joshua brings size, speed, and details to the Vancouver Canucks.

www.vancouverisawesome.com

Allvin talked about how impressed Ryan Johnson and Trent Cull were with Joshua when he briefly played for the Utica Comets during the 2020-21 season when the Blues and Canucks were sharing an AHL affiliate. They believe he has a lot to bring at the NHL level, including on the penalty kill.

 

[Vector]

Yes! Well,

Deep diving into the detailed game Dakota Joshua brings to the Canucks

Dakota Joshua brings size, speed, and details to the Vancouver Canucks.

www.vancouverisawesome.com

I meant on this forum ya dingus!

 

[orcatown]

If anything is wrong and contrived it's this?

Ryan Johnson you don't like and have been looking for a chance to strike out. Same shit with Boeser.

Your post game wraps which are mostly excellent became head scratchers last year as you stubbornly scrambled for some shitty reason to dump on Boeser in spite of his 40 goal season. And after pining for a trade because you were convinced he would suck in the playoffs he was an absolute clutch stud.

Same with Johnson.
He doesn't draft.
Playoff success??? - Does it matter that Miroshnichenko and Lapierre 2nd and 3rd in goals for Hershey while Podkolzin Silovs Lekkerimaki Woo unavailable when you make this convenient BS about player availability and playoffs. You're own example provided evidence contrary to your point

All we should be asking...Are the prospects getting what they need to succeed?

Is Abbotsford successful....yes TOP5 since arrived = winning environment
Vets to insulate....yep top5 team pretty much says it all.
Trainers and Coaches = excellent. Sedins Colliton Manny Yogi
Facilities + In game experience = excellent
Access to NHL team + communications......excellent.

WE DON'T NEED GOONS but absolutely team toughness matters. Which also means the players have to protect themselves. Who protects Hughes and Pettersson?

TOP5 team. GM has given him a ringing endorsement for his work. Everything i've seen going to games looks and sounds professional. I'll take our managements side. The evidence say's you're wrong.

Using Boeser as example of me having personal bais is not shown IMO in the on-going comments I made last year. At the beginning of the season, I, like others, saw Boeser being much the same as he was in the troubled years proceeding last year. His skating looked poor and his defensive game still wasn't there. When he did begin to score on a consistnet basis I still worried if he could sustain this and wondered if it might be better to trade him while he was hot since, if we did retain him, we would be committed to major increase in salary down the line.

But as the season progressed (and you can go back and look this through) I made more and more favorable comments about Boeser especially in his efforts to improve his defensive game. When he was good I said so, and when he wasn't I said so. At the end of the season, in fact, I admittted I was wrong in the "Post What have Learned" in doubting Boeser and that he had proven he was worth his contract. Go back and check if you want. This season I have again praised Boeser. My attempt throughout, was to provide honest assessments of Boeser and what was best for the team. If I had, as you suggest, this underlying to desire to "shit on Boeser" why would I openly change my opinion.

Same with Johnson. I've followed Johnson teams for years and base my opinion of him not on some personal hatred of the guy, but on job he is doing. I followed Utica closely and saw decent teams fall apart under Johnson. This was also the opinion of the posters in Utica, who provided game analysis and who followed Johnson moves. There was almost uniamious opinion that he was doing a poor job.

I believe that this has continued in Vancouver. The acquistion of players has been poor. Off season signings by Johnson have done next to nothing. Unlike a GM like Heisinger, Johnson has not unearthed any lower league players that have value. Abbotsford has depended upon the parent club signing players such Blais to contracts to fill out the roster. And when one of those players gets hurt or called up, the replacement Johnson has signed have been useless.

I also believe that player development has been poor. That is partly explained by draft situation but as of now I don't think there is one player developed exclusively in Abbotsford that is helping the team. And remember this was supposed to be his main job.

And then last year, he did not provide adequate protection for our younger players. I viewed most Abby games last year and watched as players were repeatly run since other teams had no fear of retribution. Every other team had someone like Gallant in the lineup to inimate our team and protect his own younger players (just go through the rosters and you will see this). In the end, the possible development of so many younger prospects was badly effected by injury caused often by deliberate attempts to injure. Podkolzin, McWard, Hirose, Mcdonough, Sasson, Klimovich, Woo were among players badly hurt. In most cases, this was the result of teams taking blantant shots at these younger players with no fear of push back. Good example. was Gallant deliberately butt ending Woo directly and hard in the face, after which Gallant skated around with no Abby player going near him. Or Podkolzin driven from behind into the boards and ending up in hospital. This happened all last year and Johnson did nothing meaningful about it.

I don't understand how you can ignore this. How can players develop when they are badly hurt. How can the younger players play to their maximum and without fear when they can be run with inpunity by bigger and more seasoned players. Do you want our propects to develop??? Don't you see it's important that they are in a safe environment. They certainly were not last year and I can't see how that doesn't upset any true fan of the team. Saying they just got to "keep their heads up" and take of care of themselves - that they don't need protection - is senseless in IMO. And that is proven, I believe, by the fact that no other team in the AHL would adopt such a policy.

It was Johnson job to provide that safe environment and he clearly didn't. I don't know how you can excuse that and say everything is fantastic, that players are "being insulated", and "getting all they need". Last year was surely example of the players not getting "insulated" and simply being thrown to th wolves. The beating the players took last year and the overwhelming amount of serious injuries is testimony to the lack of being provided every thing they need.

And this why I criticize Johnson. I look at the job he is doing and see obvious faults. And I try to provide evidence to back this up.

In response, you provide an ad hominen argument that is based on me having some irrational hatred. That's the lazy man's way out and not being able to provide evidence to support their claims.

Secondly, I say your aergement are contrived b/c you did the following;

You use examples of player development in Abbotsford that stretch any reasonable description of player development

Players llike Juulsen, DiGuiseppe are clearly not example of Abby developing prospects. You're grasping here to include anyone who might have passed through Abbotsford to support your point that there has been good player development in Abbotsford. That's contrived. These players are not examples

Also you include players like Bains, Raty, etc. as examples of players developed in Abbotsford. That again is a reach since there remains real doubt that they are NHL level.

If you have some good evidence of player development then use it. But, up till now, the examples used of development ignore that most are not even in the NHL or, if they are, it is likely on a temporary basis.

Finally, whether senior management is happy with Johnson is to not material to me. In the end. I think you have to judge things for yourself and not just listen to what is being said by someone else.