Player Discussion Marner

[Antropovsky]

Are you winging it for days now?

Can explain what this means and show examples of comparables and rationale?

They measure Marner’s greatness by points, ntil you point out that Domi had more 5v5 points per 60 than Marner. Then they say Marner boosts his linemates goal scoring, until you mention that Matthews was twice as productive with Domi than with Marner. Or that Matthews scored 1.8 goals/60 with 40-year-old Marleau, while he's produced 1.5 and 1.3 goals/60 with Marner over the last two seasons. Then they pivot to GF%. But when you show that Aho had a better GF% in 2019 (even though they claimed Marner was much better), they circle back to points and hope everyone forgets. Then it’s, “I’ve explained this countless times,” because they know their reasoning is flawed and don't want to be called out on it.

 

[sena]

Marner did not. There is nothing to suggest that the was worth than rantanen. Even considering the bonuses that Lou cheated him out of.

Willy was right In line with multiple comparables (forsberg/pasta/ehlers/gaudreau) considering total body of work and taxes.

Matthews was right in line with 5 year contracts although from a while ago. (Nash/kovy/malkin/crosby). Save stamkos signing in a no tax market.

Mitch was overpaid. Not by a ton but he was the only sub 30 g 90 pt winger to get 10.93.

He should have been around 9.75. Marner has no comparables that got what he got.
Rantanen had similar pace and had about 15 more goals and 15 less points in less
Games.

Rantanen got 9.25. Marner got 10.93 There is not a 1.7 million dollar difference at the time. There probably is now a difference with rantanen deserving more.

Willy is at 13% of aav. I think we paid right at the top of his market. He probably could ask for 14% aav as a ufa based on his performance last year….. but that wasn’t what he was before.He has to be a 40 g 95-100 pt player.

Marner is better and has an argument for more. Unless he has an off year then they have 2 years as similar players

Didn't Marner lead the leafers in points? Because that makes a large difference when signing contracts

 

[bax]

Was he booed in the home opener?

I was there. From where I was sitting it was loud and fans were engaged. He got the second loudest cheer of the night after matthews

 

[thusk]

Salary collapse started with tavares... Considerating it was an overpay or not at this moment changing absolutly nothing, the fact leafs sign tavares at 11M etablish team salary ladder at 11M

When it was time to resign Matthews, unstead to resign him at 10M, with jt already at 11M they signed him over tavares contract.

With jt at 11 and matthews over 11M, it was basically impossible to resign marner around 9M.

1 contract just broke the entire organisation salary ladder

 

[thewave]

Salary collapse started with tavares... Considerating it was an overpay or not at this moment changing absolutly nothing, the fact leafs sign tavares at 11M etablish team salary ladder at 11M

When it was time to resign Matthews, unstead to resign him at 10M, with jt already at 11M they signed him over tavares contract.

With jt at 11 and matthews over 11M, it was basically impossible to resign marner around 9M.

1 contract just broke the entire organisation salary ladder

And that falls on Shanny and Dubas or anyone on the board that wanted JT.
None of us truly know but we assume Shanny and Dubas were the guys.

MM and WN arent worth the money they make today. 10m would probably be most teams absolute max.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I was there. From where I was sitting it was loud and fans were engaged. He got the second loudest cheer of the night after matthews

I watched it and no one was booed and no one was really cheered. Many of the podcasters mention the lack of enthusiasm by the fans on their shows over the weekend and today

Those in attendance said he and Matthews received a tremendous ovation as you’d expect.

so no one was doing boo-urns as we had previously though and not surprised at all lol

 

[Legion34]

Didn't Marner lead the leafers in points? Because that makes a large difference when signing contracts

Why does that make a difference? There nothing to suggest that makes up for 1.7 million.

its Generally raw points (total goals/points over ELC) and per game.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Who were the other 5, who were the other 9 from your indicated stats?

The 5 players who earned more were Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, and Matthews.
The 9 players that were compensated with higher valuations were Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, Matthews, Kovalchuk, Vanek, Nash, and Heatley.

Then it’s, “I’ve explained this countless times,” because they know their reasoning is flawed and don't want to be called out on it.

It has been explained to you. The reasoning is not flawed. You just don't know how to use these metrics correctly.

There is nothing to suggest that he was worth more than rantanen.

In worse situations, Marner produced 28% better than Rantanen at 5v5 and 24% better on the PP, while also bringing some PK impacts.
Early career perceptions of Rantanen got skewed because he got inflated by piles of PP time. Even with that, Marner still outproduced him overall through their ELCs.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

1 contract just broke the entire organization salary ladder

acquiring JT was Dubas' first move.

 

[Gary Nylund]

When it was time to resign Matthews, unstead to resign him at 10M, with jt already at 11M they signed him over tavares contract.

With jt at 11 and matthews over 11M, it was basically impossible to resign marner around 9M.

1 contract just broke the entire organisation salary ladder

Nah, it could have been done. We had a ton of leverage, all we had to do was to use it.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner is NOT due a raise. He's underperforming his current contract.

 

[Legion34]

The 5 players who earned more were Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, and Matthews.
The 9 players that were compensated with higher valuations were Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, Matthews, Kovalchuk, Vanek, Nash, and Heatley.

It has been explained to you. The reasoning is not flawed. You just don't know how to use these metrics correctly.

In worse situations, Marner produced 28% better than Rantanen at 5v5 and 24% better on the PP, while also bringing some PK impacts.
Early career perceptions of Rantanen got skewed because he got inflated by piles of PP time. Even with that, Marner still outproduced him overall through their ELCs.

1.) There is no evidence at all that any of these metrics have a tangible impact on contracts. Players don’t get paid more for even strength vs pp or pk. We literally brought in Lorentz for our pk at league min.

You may argue that in your opinion you would rather even strength than pp scoring (I have and do) but that has nothing to do with Marner getting 1.7 more

2.) Marner did not blanket out produce. He scored 13 less goals in 11 more games. Goals are worth more. Marner was slightly more healthy and had a slightly better pp/82 but he had worse goals.

Marner was not worth 1.7 more than rantanen. There is no comparable for him.

The other players who got Matthews level were goal scorers/centers

 

[mapleleaf979]

Marner should not be paid more than Nylander. Nylander should be at 9.5 million, not 11.5.
Marner and Nylander are somewhat equals on this team. Matthews is the top player and those 2 guys slot in under that. Nylander is better at some things, Marner has a better compete level.

Marner and Nylander should not be making more than 9.5 million US each, poor guys want 11.5 and that creates the a revolving door of bottom 6 players or mid level guys like HYman forced out.