Now that our d is set. I fully expect us to be acquiring a 2C with term this year. I think Liljegren and maybe someone like McMann might be packaged to get that.
Player Discussion Marner
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Now that our d is set. I fully expect us to be acquiring a 2C with term this year. I think Liljegren and maybe someone like McMann might be packaged to get that.
Lmao, what? We didn't overpay marner?
I was kinda tired and this woke me up so thanks.
thewave
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April 1st is a bit a ways away there bud, don't ya know.
Clearly Marner the RFA did not have the numbers to get that contract vs comparable players.
John Tavares was not an overpay. He was literally offered more Money other places.
He was a no 1 c and 2 time hart trophy finalist.
Tavares has a better ufa case than Marner. It’s not close.
He hasn’t aged as well sure. But he was not an over pay
Marner earned his contract relative to his comparables. So did Tavares. So did Matthews on both contracts. So did Nylander on his first contract.
Only real questionable one relative to comparables is Nylander's current one.
Pick your poison.
John Tavares between 18-27
Stats:
24 gp 11 goals 22 points
Pace:
82gp 38 goals 75 points
No star player linemates
Marner between 18-27
Stats:
57 gp 11 goals 50 points
Pace:
82 gp 16 goals 72 points
Loaded with star linemates
Marner did not. There is nothing to suggest that the was worth than rantanen. Even considering the bonuses that Lou cheated him out of.
Willy was right In line with multiple comparables (forsberg/pasta/ehlers/gaudreau) considering total body of work and taxes.
Matthews was right in line with 5 year contracts although from a while ago. (Nash/kovy/malkin/crosby). Save stamkos signing in a no tax market.
Mitch was overpaid. Not by a ton but he was the only sub 30 g 90 pt winger to get 10.93.
He should have been around 9.75. Marner has no comparables that got what he got.
Rantanen had similar pace and had about 15 more goals and 15 less points in less
Games.
Rantanen got 9.25. Marner got 10.93 There is not a 1.7 million dollar difference at the time. There probably is now a difference with rantanen deserving more.
Willy is at 13% of aav. I think we paid right at the top of his market. He probably could ask for 14% aav as a ufa based on his performance last year….. but that wasn’t what he was before.He has to be a 40 g 95-100 pt player.
Marner is better and has an argument for more. Unless he has an off year then they have 2 years as similar players
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keonsbitterness
Registered User
Marner's agent specifically said that his comparables were his own teammates The rest of the league was irrelevant.
Let's look at a comparable who signed just before Marner:
Aho (Center) 2019 season
Regular season: 82 GP, 30 goals, 83 points, +25
Closest teammate points: 76, 53, 40
Playoffs: 15 GP, 5 goals, 12 points
Team stats: 245 goals for, 223 goals against
Contract: $8.454M x 5 years
Marner (Winger) 2019 season
Regular season: 82 GP, 26 goals, 96 points (+22)
Closest trammate points: 88, 73, 72
Playoffs: 7 GP, 2 goals, 4 points
Team stats: 286 goals for, 251 goals against
Contract: $10.983M x 6 years
Goals%
Aho played primarily on two lines, and their goal percentages were:
Niederreiter-Aho-Williams - 62.5%
Ferland-Aho-Teravainen - 66.7%
Marner played primarily on one line:
Hyman-Tavares-Marner - 57.8%
Why did Marner deserve 30% more than Aho?
- Aho had significantly less skilled linemates
- Both of Aho's lines were significantly more effective in goals%
- Aho played the more difficult position
- Aho scored more
- Aho produced more in the
- More Selke votes than Marner
thewave
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This is where Dekes ghosts you, says you're wrong or blames a tougher market to play in and internal comparables
How can anyone argue this. Actually he will probably say they underpaid.
They? It was an offersheet! That Aho and his agent pounced on. Meaning he and his agent thought it was much better than what Carolina was offering.
Dont forget the ridiculous signing bonus money Marner received either.
notDatsyuk
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- Jul 20, 2018
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I would say it was an overpay mainly in the sense that we were paying that for a player we knew was going to be a 2C. If we didn't have Matthews and knew that JT was going to be our 1C for the next 5 or 6 years, it wasn't an overpay.
That started the descent into madness. Our 1C (and better scorer) obviously had to be paid more, and our 1RW had to be paid the same. Then why wouldn't Nylander, with comparable production (or better if you consider goals as more important than assists) over the three seasons leading up to their contracts be worth comparable (actually less in terms of cap %)?
Speaking of a descent into madness, I think that's the definition of trying to discuss anything to do with Dubas with dekes.
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Are you ok Marner has never been worth 10.9 if your being honest with yourself you’d agree he’s never been worth within a million of Matthews at no point center and wing are two different positions as we can see with Willy
HolyCrap
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You’re wasting your time. Ignore the trolls.
If you need help understanding why Marner was worth more than Rantanen/Aho, or how he compared to Matthews or the history of post-ELC contracts, you're welcome to read through one of the many in-depth comparisons I have already provided. Marner had the 6th best pre-signing period in the cap era, got the 10th biggest compensation, and then continued to earn the contract he got. We're kind of getting away from the point though; that Treliving is responsible for the contracts he signs, not Marner or anybody else.
Not like the Betas been playing structured Defence in the past playoffs and yet our talented Betas still can’t score.
Not saying you idea is wrong but at what point do we go, maybe our top guys are really just Betas instead of Alphas that can be count on.
One thing I know for sure is that over the past 8 years, no one team in the Finals had AM, MM, Willie or JT on their teams and yet they all managed to either get to the Finals and half of them Won the Cup.
What does 6th best presigning periods mean? 10th biggest first post ELC contracts in cap era? Who was ahead?
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
The pre-signing period is the period up to the time of signing. And yes, the first contracts after an ELC.
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I watched it and no one was booed and no one was really cheered. Many of the podcasters mention the lack of enthusiasm by the fans on their shows over the weekend and today
Who were the other 5, who were the other 9 from your indicated stats?
thewave
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Are you winging it for days now?
Can explain what this means and show examples of comparables and rationale?
There is nothing to suggest that he was worth more than rantanen.
Rantanen had back to back 85 pts seasons. Marner had 60,60,94.
Rantanen had 80g 209 pts in 230 games
Marner had 67 g 224 pts in 241 games
Per 82 game Marner had 76 pts. Rantanen had 74.5.
Rant 32g pace. Marner 23.
There is no way Marner is worth 1.7 more.
Matthews had no comparable for 20 years. Marner did. He had a bigger stronger more goal scoring comparable in his year. 1.7 is a massive difference.
He got overpaid. It wasn’t the end of the world but reality is reality
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Maple Leaf
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S E L K E candidate
am i right?
that is what the marner camp thinks
am i right?
that is what the marner camp thinks
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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Those in attendance said he and Matthews received a tremendous ovation as you’d expect.
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