Player Discussion Marner

[francis246]

lol. Dude, you're delusional. Marner is lucky to get $8m on a real team.

You’re saying Marner is gonna get $8 mill on the open market and you have the audacity to call me delusional?

I’m not even sure you read or understood my post. Just replied to reply.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

You’re saying Marner is gonna get $8 mill on the open market and you have the audacity to call me delusional?

On a real team. By real team, I mean a team that actually has the goal of winning a Stanley Cup.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Media personalities aren't there to be right. Media personalities are there to drive engagement. You're talking about it, so she did her job.

"Lame excuse of the day" award!

 

[francis246]

On a real team. By real team, I mean a team that actually has the goal of winning a Stanley Cup.

If Rantanen walks I could 100% see Colorado taking whatever money allocated for him and offering to Marner. Might be cheaper for them to go to Marner. It’s identical pending UFA situations. Rantanen could stay but he could leave, I’m sure he feels like he is worth just as much as Nathan MacKinnon

 

[57 Years No Cup]

If Rantanen walks I could 100% see Colorado taking whatever money allocated for him and offering to Marner. Might be cheaper for them to go to Marner. It’s identical pending UFA situations. Rantanen could stay but he could leave, I’m sure he feels like he is worth just as much as Nathan MacKinnon

Rantanen might just be. But for any team with Cup aspirations, Marner is not. He's NOT a $10 million dollar player.

 

[thewave]

Rantanen might just be. But for any team with Cup aspirations, Marner is not. He's NOT a $10 million dollar player.

On a we want to win buy in team. 8-9m. On a we need him to win team like 10m-11m. On the Leafs he probably think 13-14m. At which point Marner should be fired out of. A clown Canon shot from coast to coast.

 

[JL17]

This has always been my criticism of Marner, he just moves around in open ice, lifting an opponents stick is as close as he wants to get to a dirty area of the ice. I'm sure this is exactly what Berube was getting at: the difference between competing hard and working hard. Marner works hard, but his compete level is almost nonexistent.

Watch the Bruins series and he looks like he's in a shinny game.

When I watch Marner I’m starting to see a lot of extra movement(wasted) like he’s figure skating. He puts in a lot of extra wasted effort. Hes got a bad habit on the PK when it’s time to change he moves to the far side away from the benches and stays out that little bit longer.

I think the most glaring thing was the McAvoy play in the playoffs. That sums up Mitch in the playoffs. Not willing to go the extra mile.

 

[Nineteen67]

When I watch Marner I’m starting to see a lot of extra movement(wasted) like he’s figure skating. He puts in a lot of extra wasted effort. Hes got a bad habit on the PK when it’s time to change he moves to the far side away from the benches and stays out that little bit longer.

I think the most glaring thing was the McAvoy play in the playoffs. That sums up Mitch in the playoffs. Not willing to go the extra mile.

Is it not willing or not able to go the extra mile? All we know is they don’t do it.

 

[thewave]

When I watch Marner I’m starting to see a lot of extra movement(wasted) like he’s figure skating. He puts in a lot of extra wasted effort. Hes got a bad habit on the PK when it’s time to change he moves to the far side away from the benches and stays out that little bit longer.

I think the most glaring thing was the McAvoy play in the playoffs. That sums up Mitch in the playoffs. Not willing to go the extra mile.

He is always making pointless movements. He gets stung on them and throws away the puck all the time because of it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Is it not willing or not able to go the extra mile? All we know is they don’t do it.

Those 'advanced' stats sure are pretty though aren't they?

 

[Smif]

Agreed, his numbers prove it. His points are more a reflection of heavy minutes and playing with skilled linemates than his own ability.

Marner has 1 goal, 7 points in 7 games, and is a -2.

• 3 assists are on the PP.
• 2 assists are phantom (one from a clearing attempt, the other a dump-in).
• 1 assist was a shot attempt creating rebound which came 5v5 while playing on a $36 million line.

No matter what the Marner fans are trying to sell, it's not looking good.

Aye, you left out his GWG, shocker...

He's been below average this season, but still better than Matthews. Matthews, the captain, and his 13M+ salary is the guy to look to for more at this point. Where are the Matthew's threads??

 

[Knies iT]

Aye, you left out his GWG, shocker...

He's been below average this season, but still better than Matthews. Matthews, the captain, and his 13M+ salary is the guy to look to for more at this point. Where are the Matthew's threads??

When Marner collects multiple Art Ross’s (Rocket equivalent), multiple 100+pt seasons, and plays the hardest skater position, he can then be given the benefit of the doubt like Matthews.

 

[ULF_55]

He is going to be much better when Matthews scores goals that are recorded as goals on the score sheet.

 

[Antropovsky]

Aye, you left out his GWG, shocker...

He's been below average this season, but still better than Matthews. Matthews, the captain, and his 13M+ salary is the guy to look to for more at this point. Where are the Matthew's threads??

I didn't miss it, I listed the empty calorie type points.

And only because you asked it - frankly I'm not excited about his goal. I actually indicated this was one of the most common ways he scored before the season starts. It's his favorite way to score and he will cheat a bit to get these opportunities.

Here is an example (photos attached) from last season, notice how Marner is already heading out of the zone while reaching for the puck (photo 1). The leafs recovered the puck and send him in for a breakaway goal (2nd photo)..but how did he know that his teammates were gonna recover the loose puck? If you watch him on defense, he constantly pressures the D trying this play.

How many goals like this has he scored in the playoffs? none?

Keefe referred to playoff type goals (around the net) and Berube is talking about more N-S play. And Broudreau mentioned Leafs are always looking to jump from defense to transition to offense and in the playoffs it costs them. This is an example of what Broudeau was talking about.

 

[Skullz]

I think it's going to have to fall into the 11.75-12.75 mil over 8 years for management (and player's representative) to sell it to the local market.

The fanbase is only going to be tolerant of Matthews doing stuff that's more out of left field in terms of contact term/structure and survive the PR battle.

12.6 essentially gives him the Matthews raise

Yup. It cannot be any higher than that given the toxicity associated with Marner and the lack of playoff success.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I've come to realize a lot of my dislike for Marner doesn't actually come from Marner.

Yes he comes across as a whiny spoiled snot in interviews. Yes he's an overpaid underachieving choke artist. Yes he's a spineless penalty box crybaby.

But up until recently I still liked him as a player despite all those things.

It's how polarizing he is. Even worse are his supporters. A player this divisive causes a rift in the fan base.

It results in these childish almost unreadable threads.

One way or another I hope he's gone next summer. Even if it means he walks as a free agent. If ever there was a time where losing a hundred point player for nothing was addition by subtraction this is it.

Nothing would say "we have no respect for our fans" more than running it back with him again.

Good riddance.

 

[thewave]

When Marner collects multiple Art Ross’s (Rocket equivalent), multiple 100+pt seasons, and plays the hardest skater position, he can then be given the benefit of the doubt like Matthews.

How many Art Ross' has Marner won?
How many Rockets has AM won?

What is the Ross to Rocket ratio?

I've come to realize a lot of my dislike for Marner doesn't actually come from Marner.

Yes he comes across as a whiny spoiled snot in interviews. Yes he's an overpaid underachieving choke artist. Yes he's a spineless penalty box crybaby.

But up until recently I still liked him as a player despite all those things.

It's how polarizing he is. Even worse are his supporters. A player this divisive causes a rift in the fan base.

It results in these childish almost unreadable threads.

One way or another I hope he's gone next summer. Even if it means he walks as a free agent. If ever there was a time where losing a hundred point player for nothing was addition by subtraction this is it.

Nothing would say "we have no respect for our fans" more than running it back with him again.

Good riddance.

The money and the contractually stapled to PP1 and AM34 are the worst part to me. Obviously double that concern in the PO.

 

[bax]

I do think at some point they have to ask him, is being a maple leaf more important to you or being the highest paid winger. That’s the hard thing Marner will have to wrestle with. How bad do you really want to be here? I could honestly see 11.93, 8 year deal full NMC. Puts him ahead of Willie and Pasta

He will go down as either first or second in points in Maple Leafs history if he stays and remains healthy. I can't see him passing this up. 11.93 is a very reasonable guess but I'm betting it's 12.93.

I think the Selke nomination and being used in all scenarios will get him a bit more than just 500k over Willy. They even had him playing defense a couple of games last year. Hopefully the team stands firm and he does take a discount but I'm not holding my breath. They just gave Willy a 5 million dollar raise.

 

[Antropovsky]

When Marner collects multiple Art Ross’s (Rocket equivalent), multiple 100+pt seasons, and plays the hardest skater position, he can then be given the benefit of the doubt like Matthews.

Yep Marner is being picked on.

Avg shot distances season vs playoffs. Look whose at the bottom of these charts. Note being at the bottom of these charts is a bad thing. And he's the worst by more than a little. Green is good, red is bad.

2023

2024

Slot shot season vs playoffs

2023:

2024:

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yep Marner is being picked on.

Avg shot distances season vs playoffs. Look whose at the bottom of these charts. Note being at the bottom of these charts is a bad thing. And he's the worst by more than a little. Green is good, red is bad.

2023
View attachment 920891

2024
View attachment 920892

Slot shot season vs playoffs

2023:
View attachment 920893
2024:
View attachment 920895

So if I'm understanding this correctly, in the playoffs last season, Marner on average shot from 22+ feet further away from the net then during the regular season.

That's so bizarre, it doesn't even seem real.

 

[Antropovsky]

He will go down as either first or second in points in Maple Leafs history if he stays and remains healthy. I can't see him passing this up. 11.93 is a very reasonable guess but I'm betting it's 12.93.

I think the Selke nomination and being used in all scenarios will get him a bit more than just 500k over Willy. They even had him playing defense a couple of games last year. Hopefully the team stands firm and he does take a discount but I'm not holding my breath. They just gave Willy a 5 million dollar raise.

Sample size for 2024 was only a few games and Marner barely gets any shots on net. i know he didnt even record a shot in at least one...but when he does, they are far from the net. If he went to the net more (physical area) chances are he'd score more. Doesn't get much worse.

Wasn't it Gretzky #1 that said "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take"? Someone tell Gretzky #2.

 

[sunstersun]

Sample size for 2024 was only a few games and Marner barely gets any shots on net. i know he didnt even record a shot in at least one...but when he does, they are far from the net. If he went to the net more (physical area) chances are he'd score more. Doesn't get much worse.

More importantly he could actually playmake more effectively if he was more of a scoring threat.

In the NBA and NHL, pure passers are super easy to defend. You have to attack to open up the pass. Not the other way around.

 

[thewave]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, in the playoffs last season, Marner on average shot from 22+ feet further away from the net then during the regular season.

That's so bizarre, it doesn't even seem real.

He was crossing the blue line and lobbing shots on net routinely. Corsi shots. The guy does things that do nothing other than either look good optically or advance his advanced stats.

He is a video gamer on ice that knows how to score the most points in the most ways to be on the leaderboard. A big part of that has been to ensure he is stapled to AM34 and be on PP1. It's why he cried to be on AMs line.

Watch the absolutely useless figure skating movement he does on the PP that does nothing. He does nothing for our PP, it's part of the reason why it sucks. Rielly is equally shameful and to blame as well.

Away from AM, MM is like a 70-80pts player at best.

 

[ACC1224]

He will go down as either first or second in points in Maple Leafs history if he stays and remains healthy. I can't see him passing this up. 11.93 is a very reasonable guess but I'm betting it's 12.93.

I think the Selke nomination and being used in all scenarios will get him a bit more than just 500k over Willy. They even had him playing defense a couple of games last year. Hopefully the team stands firm and he does take a discount but I'm not holding my breath. They just gave Willy a 5 million dollar raise.

Under 12 seems reasonable, I wouldn't expect him to get more than that.

 

[thewave]

Under 12 seems reasonable, I wouldn't expect him to get more than that.

11.5m for him or Nylander are both not reasonable but since that's done. The next best thing would be under 12m without all the NMC nonsense. That won't happen and so it's matching Willy at 11.5m.

Losing assets for nothing is pretty bad in general and if it comes to that I sure hope a more cost effective or better player is coming back.

MM and WN get the the harshest criticism for the way they fought to be so highly paid. Matthews is the best goal scorer in the league and a darn good C. Nothing was going to limit that payday except going back in time and JT not being brought in.