Player Discussion Marner

[Antropovsky]

Another really strong game. Easily the most consistent forward this season, been really good if we’re allowed to be honest.

Why can't you be honest? Did you think this was like your Marner threads, where you tried to control the narrative and get mods to kick out anyone who criticized Marner? Don’t worry, freedom of speech is alive and well here.

 

[freshwind]

As Willy is pulling far far away from Marner in the ways of importance or relevance. How do you see a future contract unfolding. I don't see WN performance or anything close to it coming out of Marner right now. He looks like a kid out there comparably.

This is not just about points BTW. WN is legit driving lines out there and MM is absolutely not


What have you to say?

i ask what mm is doing that justifies 3 minutes 27 seconds per game more ice time than wn?
but i did read above that mm is still the cat's meow it seems - "Easily the most consistent forward this season, been really good if we’re allowed to be honest"

seems the bar is set, for certain individuals it seems the name on the back is more important than the name on the front

 

[Antropovsky]

As Willy is pulling far far away from Marner in the ways of importance or relevance. How do you see a future contract unfolding. I don't see WN performance or anything close to it coming out of Marner right now. He looks like a kid out there comparably.

This is not just about points BTW. WN is legit driving lines out there and MM is absolutely not


What have you to say?

Marners clearing attempt assist on Knies goal yesterday or his dump in assist on Knies other goal vs Pitts... isn't a reflection of his immense talent?

 

[Confucius]

Another really strong game. Easily the most consistent forward this season, been really good if we’re allowed to be honest.

i ask what mm is doing that justifies 3 minutes 27 seconds per game more ice time than wn?
but i did read above that mm is still the cat's meow it seems - "Easily the most consistent forward this season, been really good if we’re allowed to be honest"

seems the bar is set, for certain individuals it seems the name on the back is more important than the name on the front

The detractors seem to ignore the fact he gets more time on ice than any other forward on the team and only 1 dman gets more minutes. 8th most minutes amongst all forwards in the league. He must be doing something right to get so much playing time. Even more than Mathews

 

[ACC1224]

The detractors seem to ignore the fact he gets more time on ice than any other forward on the team and only 1 dman gets more minutes. 8th most minutes amongst all forwards in the league. He must be doing something right to get so much playing time. Even more than Mathews

Yeah, he's had a really strong start to the season. Pretty tough for Leaf fans not to like what he's brought.

 

[GoonieFace]

Yeah, he's had a really strong start to the season. Pretty tough for Leaf fans not to like what he's brought.

Marner has been good, but not even close to the best player this year.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner has been good, but not even close to the best player this year.

There's a whole bunch in that group.

 

[leafs in five]

Why can't you be honest? Did you think this was like your Marner threads, where you tried to control the narrative and get mods to kick out anyone who criticized Marner? Don’t worry, freedom of speech is alive and well here.

lmao

 

[leafs in five]

great again last night imo, some really nice kinda lockdown shifts vs the kuch line who got nothing whatsover at even strength. he should have shot on that chance he put cross-crease to knies though

 

[Gary Nylund]

The detractors seem to ignore the fact he gets more time on ice than any other forward on the team and only 1 dman gets more minutes. 8th most minutes amongst all forwards in the league. He must be doing something right to get so much playing time. Even more than Mathews

Marner also led our forwards in ice time in the playoffs last season. If you think that means he played well then I want to know what you're smoking.

 

[Dough72]

criticizing his playoffs is fine but trying to blend that into his regular season history just to vent more is...yeah

 

[Antropovsky]

i ask what mm is doing that justifies 3 minutes 27 seconds per game more ice time than wn?
but i did read above that mm is still the cat's meow it seems - "Easily the most consistent forward this season, been really good if we’re allowed to be honest"

seems the bar is set, for certain individuals it seems the name on the back is more important than the name on the front

Not sure, each year they struggle together offensively. But defensively they do well and Nylander can drive offense better on his own line.

In 6 games this year, Marner has just 1 primary assist on a Matthews goal and Matthews has 0 5v5 assists (hard to produce when your linemate isn't a shooting threat).

Two years ago:

How’s this for a head-scratcher? Marner has yet to supply the primary assist on a Matthews even-strength goal all season. (He has just one on the power play.)

It was high time for the nuclear option, a switch that had been debated internally for some time.

Since Saturday’s right-wing toggle of placing Marner with Tavares and Nylander with Matthews, the Maple Leafs have won consecutive games over Vancouver and Pittsburgh, outscoring their foes 7-3 (with an empty-netter) at even-strength.

With the Leafs off to an uneven start, Matthews and Marner got split up on Nov. 12. Since then, Toronto is averaging 3.6 goals per game, which is sixth overall. The team averaged 2.8 goals per game prior to the change, which was 24th overall.

"At the time when we were consistently playing together our games were in different places," Matthews said. "So now, obviously, we've been a little bit better."

The Leafs have been rolling and Nylander has certainly looked up to the task of a top-line role.

Last year:

Matthews has not scored a 5-on-5 goal in the last seven games. Marner has been held off the scoresheet in five of the last seven games. But Toronto's top line has been inconsistent all season.

"I don't think it's the last five or seven games," stressed Keefe. "It's been up and down."

"Too many highs and lows," agreed Matthews. "Just the consistency of putting together shift after shift hasn't been there as much as we wanted."

Keefe has been pushing and prodding Matthews and Marner throughout this rollercoaster run. He even called out the top line behind closed doors following a lacklustre performance against the Detroit Red Wings in Stockholm on Nov. 17.

"It is more so just challenging Auston and Mitch to sort it out and be better," Keefe said of his previous approach.

This isn't exactly a new situation. Keefe also split up Matthews and Marner last November, which led to a strong run of form.

"Obviously not as great as it usually is and as I like it," the 26-year-old admitted. "Gotta make sure I'm staying patient out there and not trying to force anything and do what I do best. That's bring high energy, bring good pace out there, and when the puck gets into my hands trust my abilities to do things with it."

The Leafs have been outscored 15-14 with Marner, a Selke Trophy nominee last season, on the ice in 5-on-5 play. The Leafs were plus-25 in that situation last season.

"He knows he needs to be better," said Keefe. "We are going to help him through it. We have been talking with him and meeting with him. We have been working on some things on the ice that I think he has to focus on and can help him start to be the Mitch Marner that we know."

Specifically, pace of play is important.

"Just not getting the puck with a whole lot of speed with myself moving," Marner said of his biggest issue. "And not really trusting my abilities out there, so that's something that needs to change. Just have to trust it."

Marner has 20 points through 19 games, which puts him on pace for 86. He posted a career-best 99 points last season.

"He went through stretches like this last season, too, especially in the early going," Keefe reminded. "It turned out that he had an incredible season for us. I don't expect it will be any different for him

 

[Dekes For Days]

As Willy is pulling far far away from Marner in the ways of importance or relevance. How do you see a future contract unfolding. I don't see WN performance or anything close to it coming out of Marner right now. He looks like a kid out there comparably. This is not just about points BTW. WN is legit driving lines out there and MM is absolutely not What have you to say?

Nylander is a great player, and he has been hot and shooting 25% to start the year, but he's certainly not "pulling far, far away from Marner in the ways of importance or relevance". That's ridiculous. Marner has been spectacular. One of the best players on the ice night after night, and Berube seems to love him. Hopefully our management isn't stupid, and signs him ASAP. It's awesome to have both.

 

[Jaska]

Marner will once again bring character, when the play offs start.

 

[Zybalto]

Uncharacteristically strong start to the season for Marner and he could actually have far more points than he does now with better finish from his teammates (and Matthews seems to be heating up after blowing a ton of chances the first few games). Seems locked in with his passing and has been an all-situations force for the team.

Loving the team so far this season.

 

[Legion34]

Exactly. Which means you have both components of primary production.

He didn't have a direct comparable. He had 5 players that were better than him. He makes less than all of them. The rest were worse than him.
Of the lesser players closer to him, some make a bit less (consistent with the gap between them), and some make more.

No. Primary production is goals. You are just determining that primary points are a thing and equating them to goals. This is not true and is not recognized by NHL record books. It’s a Jonas seigel thing.

There is no evidence that it is used in contracts

He makes 18% more than his abosolute closest comparable. He was an 11% ish give or take compared to all metrics and even models that showed he was worth 9.1-9.6.

He got overpaid. 23g/76 pt players are not worth 13.4%

45 goal centers are worth 14%.

He should have got about 11. He was in no way 5% higher than many “playmaking wingers” who got 8-9%. He was a step up but not 5% above

 

[Confucius]

Marner also led our forwards in ice time in the playoffs last season. If you think that means he played well then I want to know what you're smoking.

It means to me he was trusted more than anyone else else. Why else give him the most icetime

 

[leafs in five]

imagine watching a performance like last night and then clocking in this morning to put in your Marner isn't good with Matthews shift

Marner also led our forwards in ice time in the playoffs last season. If you think that means he played well then I want to know what you're smoking.

do you ever read your posts before hitting reply

 

[leafs in five]

It means to me he was trusted more than anyone else else. Why else give him the most icetime

trusted by the rookie stats geek head coach and the hardened cup champ warrior coach just the same. weird

 

[Gary Nylund]

It means to me he was trusted more than anyone else else. Why else give him the most icetime

This to me is like the whole "he's well like by his teammates" nonsense. Who cares?

I don't care if a player is trusted or well liked. What I care about above everything else, is helping us win games in the playoffs.

What would you rather have, a player who is well liked and trusted, or a player who brings it in the playoffs? Oh that's right, you're the guy who values regular season over playoffs right? If that's the case then never mind. Regular season Marner has always been quite good, no complaints at all from me.

do you ever read your posts before hitting reply

I sometimes do, mostly to check for spelling mistakes, grammar errors etc., why do you ask? If you have something to say, go ahead and say it. We're only discussing hockey here, no need to be afraid.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Primary production is goals.

Production is goals + primary assists + secondary assists. Primary production is goals + primary assists. Goals are goals.

You are just determining that primary points are a thing and equating them to goals.

No, you're just trying to pretend that goals are worth more. Primary points are a thing. Goals are a thing. Primary assists are a thing.

There is no evidence that it is used in contracts

Sure there is. More evidence than goals. It has all of your arguments about goals, as well as a better correlation with contracts.

He makes 18% more than his abosolute closest comparable.

He got less than his closest comparable, despite being better than him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The detractors seem to ignore the fact he gets more time on ice than any other forward on the team and only 1 dman gets more minutes. 8th most minutes amongst all forwards in the league. He must be doing something right to get so much playing time. Even more than Mathews

The difference is really just the PK time.

The difference in ES among Mitch, Matty, and Willy is only 30 second a game, and PP time is 3 seconds.

 

[Antropovsky]

Production is goals + primary assists + secondary assists. Primary production is goals + primary assists. Goals are goals.

No, you're just trying to pretend that goals are worth more. Primary points are a thing. Goals are a thing. Primary assists are a thing.

Sure there is. More evidence than goals. It has all of your arguments about goals, as well as a better correlation with contracts.

He got less than his closest comparable, despite being better than him.

What comparable was that?

 

[Jaska]

How will his next contract turn out? I predict 14M+.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The difference is really just the PK time.

The difference in ES among Mitch, Matty, and Willy is only 30 second a game, and PP time is 3 seconds.

I'm wondering if Marner on the PK is even a good idea. I mean I love watching him on the PK, he's very good at it and a lot of fun to watch. On the other hand, I've always questioned the wisdom of playing him so many minutes. He fades away after 4 playoff games and maybe his game just isn't suited for playoff hockey once teams settle in to playoff hockey but who knows, maybe if he was better rested he'd do better? Considering the pattern of him fading is so well established, seems like it's worth a try.