Value of: Marner to NSH at the draft

[beardawg]

It seems to me like Toronto will do something drastic. Barry Trotz and the draft hosting Nashville Predators have the assets to make a trade. What kind of value would it take? Futures? NHL ready prospects + roster players?

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[beardawg]

15 OA
NSH 2024 1st rounder
Luke Evangelista
Alexander Carrier

 

[Guffman]

15 OA
NSH 2024 1st rounder
Luke Evangelista
Alexander Carrier

LOL

tic. Barry Trotz and the draft hosting Nashville Predators have the assets to make a trade

Perhaps explain why it makes sense for Nashville to pursue Marner.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

15 OA
NSH 2024 1st rounder
Luke Evangelista
Alexander Carrier

That's a rebuild trade, I don't think that happens

 

[herzausstein]

I dont understand how Marner makes sense for Nashville. Our center situation is not great and Marner would give us 26+ million wrapped up in wingers (duchene, forsberg, and marner). The assets used to acquire marner would best be used to fix our center situation.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Perhaps explain why it makes sense for Nashville to pursue Marner.

Not often do you get a chance to acquire a player who would be your best forward.

 

[beardawg]

LOL


Perhaps explain why it makes sense for Nashville to pursue Marner.

Why doesn't it make sense? Nashville missed the playoffs by a single win after actively trying to tank after the trade deadline. They have the assets, cap space, and a new GM. Marner's age fits in with trying to win now with Forsberg/Josi/Saros

Also, could you provide a better explanation than just an LOL?

 

[beardawg]

I dont understand how Marner makes sense for Nashville. Our center situation is not great and Marner would give us 26+ million wrapped up in wingers (duchene, forsberg, and marner). The assets used to acquire marner would best be used to fix our center situation.

Duchene obviously has been great since moving to wing, but he's played center for most of his career and is great at face-offs. There are also young options like Novak, Parssinen and Glass.

Like I said in an above post, I'm not sure what about Marner isn't a fit for NSH. They barely missed playoffs, have the necessary cap space and assets, and his age fits if you're trying to win with Forsberg/Josi/Saros

Duchene - Novak - Marner
Forsberg - Johansen - Tomasino
Parssinen - Glass -
Trenin - Sissons - Smith

Josi - Fabbro
McDonagh - Barrie
Lauzon - Livingstone

Edit: forgot Barrie

 

[Michoulicious]

Marner + Knies + Boston's 2023 1st

For

Josi

 

[lanceuppercut75]

I'm not sure it's a good fit. Leafs should target at least two of Kemell, Saros, McDonagh, Fabbro, 15th overall as a starting point. I'm not sure that Nashville wants to move out two of those pieces in order to bring in Marner. Josi is also a target but a waste of time for Toronto to ask Nashville about.

 

[Sparksrus3]

LOL


Perhaps explain why it makes sense for Nashville to pursue Marner.

That’s so easy to answer . Toronto says so

 

[herzausstein]

Duchene obviously has been great since moving to wing, but he's played center for most of his career and is great at face-offs. There are also young options like Novak, Parssinen and Glass.

Like I said in an above post, I'm not sure what about Marner isn't a fit for NSH. They barely missed playoffs, have the necessary cap space and assets, and his age fits if you're trying to win with Forsberg/Josi/Saros

Duchene - Novak - Marner
Forsberg - Johansen - Tomasino
Parssinen - Glass -
Trenin - Sissons - Smith

Josi - Fabbro
McDonagh - Barrie
Lauzon - Livingstone

Edit: forgot Barrie

Duchene was not good at center in nashville when given the shot. Thats why he ended up at wing. Him and joey were supposed to be a 1/2 punch with granlund at wing... it didnt work out.

All the other centers Novak, Glass, Parssinen, and Johansen are unknowns.

Joey coming off of surgery to repair hia Achilles. He was already too slow.
Glass was a 40ish point pace
Parssinen was a 40ish point pace
Novak 70ish point pace but shooting% that wont be replicated. Still can end up in the 60s area.

That isnt a center group that screams go bust all your assets on a near 11 million dollar winger.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

15 OA
NSH 2024 1st rounder
Luke Evangelista
Alexander Carrier

Good lord, no chance.

I think the key thing here, though, is that you are only sure you are getting 2 seasons of Marner. That is just far too much for our team, in our current situation, to give up for 2 seasons of ANY player.

It's true that we would love to find a way to get some kind of #1 forward, whether it is a winger or center. But it would have to be for more of a long-term guarantee. Getting a player for 1 or 2 years just doesn't fit the current team projection in Nashville. Evangelista is doing amazingly well and is a fixture in our top-6 plans moving forward. We expect to get a similar fixture with our #15 pick this year. And our 2024 1st could even be a top-5 lottery pick. So that is just a total non-starter from us.

 

[Guffman]

Why doesn't it make sense? Nashville missed the playoffs by a single win after actively trying to tank after the trade deadline. They have the assets, cap space, and a new GM. Marner's age fits in with trying to win now with Forsberg/Josi/Saros

Also, could you provide a better explanation than just an LOL?

Nashville decided that they were not good enough near the TDL and divested themselves of a lot of talent. Saros having a ridiculous finale to the season to keep Nashville close doesn’t change that the team just wasn’t good enough.

Are the Preds in rebuild or retool mode? Likely going to retool. Does it make sense for the Preds to blow all of those assets and salary cap space to acquire a soft, overpriced winger? Absolutely not. Adding Marner, who is a 2-year rental BTW, is not a smart investment and addresses the wrong team need.

I see Leaf fans are looking at all the teams with salary cap space, like Arizona, Anaheim and now Nashville, and trying to stick the $11M AAV Marner and come up with some ridiculous rationale why a 2-year rental makes sense for them and why they should dump a truck load of assets to do so.

It’s pretty cringe TBH.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Duchene was not good at center in nashville when given the shot. Thats why he ended up at wing. Him and joey were supposed to be a 1/2 punch with granlund at wing... it didnt work out.

All the other centers Novak, Glass, Parssinen, and Johansen are unknowns.

Joey coming off of surgery to repair hia Achilles. He was already too slow.
Glass was a 40ish point pace
Parssinen was a 40ish point pace
Novak 70ish point pace but shooting% that wont be replicated. Still can end up in the 60s area.

That isnt a center group that screams go bust all your assets on a near 11 million dollar winger.

Well, Toronto has a center available as well.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Well, Toronto has a center available as well.

We can afford one of them, Cap-wise. Just, we are not going to give up multiple core futures assets to rent one in a trade.

If we can eventually sign one of them long-term as a UFA, great. Not something to expect, but if it becomes possible, bonus. I just don't think it's on our radar to chase short-term rentals. Our team finished shockingly well down the stretch while playing all of our youngsters in place of the traded/injured veterans, but it would be irresponsible to assume the team is truly good enough to pay premium prices for rental players at this juncture.

 

[Soundgarden]

I don't think Marner makes sense for us. We have a lot of futures but that is our future core, I don't think we're winning anything with Forsberg, Johansen, Duchene, and Saros in the roles they currently hold.

 

[Rare Jewel]

We can afford one of them, Cap-wise. Just, we are not going to give up multiple core futures assets to rent one in a trade.

If we can eventually sign one of them long-term as a UFA, great. Not something to expect, but if it becomes possible, bonus. I just don't think it's on our radar to chase short-term rentals. Our team finished shockingly well down the stretch while playing all of our youngsters in place of the traded/injured veterans, but it would be irresponsible to assume the team is truly good enough to pay premium prices for rental players at this juncture.

To be clear, I wasn't talking about Matthews.

 

[AvroArrow]

Leafs are looking for immediate help, but any sort of Marner trade will only be explored once the Matthews situation is resolved. If Matthews extends, Leafs will explore options to trade Marner for immediate impact players. If Matthews does not extend, Leafs may look to trade 1 or both of them for futures.

Hard to predict what's going to happen now given the GM situation in Toronto. But I believe Shanny and MLSE want this team to compete now, not another 4-5 years down the road. There just isn't an immediate roster player on Nashville that fits in this teams window.

 

[57special]

Marner is not a guy you want to invest much in. He’s overpaid, his contract is up soon, and he will be difficult, if not impossible, to re-sign for even the same money, let alone less, which is what he should’ve been paid all along.
11M should buy you a great player with a history of winning, or at least competing for Cups. Instead, you get a guy who took the leafs for all he could get, and set it up so he could try to do it again ASAP.

The only GM’s willing to trade for him would be sending back bad cap, and lots of it, to TOR. To think that some team will eat nearly all of his cap hit and send picks and prospects back is childish.

Also, Marner rate of compensation will throw most team’s salary cap structure out of whack, causing internal dissension. What GM wants to pay for that?

I predict Marner goes to UFA when his contract is up. It will be interesting to see what he gets on the open market.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

To be clear, I wasn't talking about Matthews.

Then who?

We will be happy to submit offers to Matthews or Marner as UFAs. I don't believe a trade is on the table, however.

 

[Neiler]

DeBrincat would be a smarter play if Nashville was looking for a winger like this. Opportunity for 8 years instead of 2, cheaper price tag.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

DeBrincat would be a smarter play if Nashville was looking for a winger like this. Opportunity for 8 years instead of 2, cheaper price tag.

DeBrincat is more of a 2nd-tier winger for an overpay, though. I wouldn't personally take DeBrincat "for free" on Nashville. I'd gamble something minimal on Marner for 2 years, hoping to be able to re-sign him, not expecting to, but it would be nothing that would make sense for Toronto.

For Marner, I'd give up like a 2nd round pick or something similar, nothing that moves the needle. Because I don't think he'd stay here, and I'd rather keep that Cap space open to try for other players on the UFA market. We're not contenders. A short-term rental does nothing significant for us. Toronto would laugh at this. Which is just representative of how it's not a fit for either team. They would do far far better shopping him elsewhere.

For DeBrincat, I would not claim him if he was waived tomorrow. His contract situation is too far out of whack for the caliber of player that he is.

That is, if you are only trading straight up futures for these players. If either team was willing instead to take a massive contract back like Duchene or Johansen or McDonagh, well, that would certainly change things up from our side. I don't think you should or would do that, however, so I tend to automatically discount that scenario.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Then who?

We will be happy to submit offers to Matthews or Marner as UFAs. I don't believe a trade is on the table, however.

I was eluding to Tavares.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I was eluding to Tavares.

Tavares? I mean, he's turning 33 at the start of this season. For our team, I would give up maybe like Duchene and a 3rd. He is better than Duchene. But probably not a point-per-game player on our team. For an extra $3M Cap hit, it's just a marginal upgrade, the way we'd look at things. It's just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic, basically. Why would Tavares waive his NMC in this kind of scenario?