Marner Predictions - What Happens Now

[Antropovsky]

Game 4, 3-0 goal
Marners line cant clear and are gassed. They finally clear, but Boston sees an opportunity and quickly turn it back up ice. Domi coming on for Marner misses his cover and Boston scores. Marner is seen barely reaching the bench when Bostons defender is making stretch pass. There are a few things at play here..but the play starts with Boston seeing an opportunity with Marners lines late change. Notice its Pasta again who finds the Leafs sleeping, he did the same on the gamewinner in game 7. Which makes it even more unnacceptable that he was overlooked again.

Marner going for late change

Domi just gets on boston passing

Boston, Pasta scores

 

[notDatsyuk]

drai set the print for marners next contract

That may be what he wants, but I will be very surprised if any team gives it to him.

 

[ULF_55]

I think he'll be playing RW on the top line in Toronto.

He does well with Matthews, as do most RWers.

 

[Antropovsky]

Correct... but it depends on the type of player that you're talking about.

If you're talking about a guy like Darcy Tucker, or Mats Sundin, forcing their way through that pile with 80 seconds left in game 6 to force overtime against the Canes, then yes, that "pressure" might just be the push you need.

However, we also likely need to relaize that Auston Matthews, William Nylander, and Mitch Marner aren't neccessarily the types of players that "benefit" from additional pressure. Nylander I think is -- just given his propensity to go on vacation at times. Matthews might be -- given how successful he can be in the corners. Marner -- probably not, where that pressure gets to his head, afraid to make the confident (and potentially dangerous) pass that makes him so effective, and kind of turns him into a little bit of a useless player where he's not doing what makes him great, and not really equipped to go win a board battle; because he's never in that position all season.

Blaming pressure is a cop out. He isnt slow because of pressure. He isnt afraid of corners and physical hockey because of pressure. His shot doesnt suck because of pressure. When the only available play is to cycle the puck, Marner tries a cute play instead and typically loses it. Game 4 he did numerous of these types of plays.

Heres just one low percentage sequence by Marner where Boston take the puck away very easily.

Marner first on puck, bruin in pursuit:

Marner does a 180 and faces up:

Marner skates towards blue line and for some reason ops to try and do a 180 back the other way steering blindly right inro the sefender on his back and he is easily stopped and double teamed.

Boston goes on offensive:

 

[seanlinden]

Blaming pressure is a cop out. He isnt slow because of pressure. He isnt afraid of corners and physical hockey because of pressure. His shot doesnt suck because of pressure. When the only available play is to cycle the puck, Marner tries a cute play instead and typically loses it. Game 4 he did numerous of these types of plays.

Heres just one low percentage sequence by Marner where Boston take the puck away very easily.

Marner first on puck, bruin in pursuit:

Marner does a 180 and faces up:

Marner skates towards blue line and for some reason ops to try and do a 180 back the other way steering blindly right inro the sefender on his back and he is easily stopped and double teamed.

Boston goes on offensive:

We're not "blaming" here... we're simply trying to understand how playing in a market like Toronto versus Florida is likely to affect different players.

Corners, physical hockey aren't his game. Engaging in that type of play turns him from the ~100 point $11m forward, into somebody that's pretty much an average to below average player.

In order to win, you've gotta put players in a position to use their strongest assets.... not force them to play a style that they just don't do with any sort of regularity.
For Marner to be at his best, he's gotta be in the open ice, making those cute plays; as those cute plays are what create goals. The challenge for Marner, especially playing in Toronto, is that the pressure of being the scapegoat in the playoffs likely makes him a little afraid to be as cute as he might be in the regular season.

Heck, I still remember that game 6 overtime against Montreal -- Leafs outshot the Habs by a ridiculous amount in OT, and all it took was 1 bad Travis Dermott giveaway on a nothing play to wrap it up.

Even shooting, let's not forget Marner scored 35 goals in 70 games one year. He can score... but again probably doesn't want to be remembered as teh guy who shot instead of passing it off to one of his more prolific goalscoring linemates.

 

[IPS]

We're not "blaming" here... we're simply trying to understand how playing in a market like Toronto versus Florida is likely to affect different players.

Corners, physical hockey aren't his game. Engaging in that type of play turns him from the ~100 point $11m forward, into somebody that's pretty much an average to below average player.

In order to win, you've gotta put players in a position to use their strongest assets.... not force them to play a style that they just don't do with any sort of regularity.
For Marner to be at his best, he's gotta be in the open ice, making those cute plays; as those cute plays are what create goals. The challenge for Marner, especially playing in Toronto, is that the pressure of being the scapegoat in the playoffs likely makes him a little afraid to be as cute as he might be in the regular season.

Heck, I still remember that game 6 overtime against Montreal -- Leafs outshot the Habs by a ridiculous amount in OT, and all it took was 1 bad Travis Dermott giveaway on a nothing play to wrap it up.

Even shooting, let's not forget Marner scored 35 goals in 70 games one year. He can score... but again probably doesn't want to be remembered as teh guy who shot instead of passing it off to one of his more prolific goalscoring linemates.

The example provided doesn't really show that at all though. There was a very clear and obvious play that needed to be made to keep the play alive and Marner still tries a completely unnecessary very low % move that ends up killing possession for his team. He stopped and pivoted right cause he had it in his head that he was gonna somehow dangle out 2 defenders, you just don't do shit like this in the playoffs.

 

[Antropovsky]

We're not "blaming" here... we're simply trying to understand how playing in a market like Toronto versus Florida is likely to affect different players.

Corners, physical hockey aren't his game. Engaging in that type of play turns him from the ~100 point $11m forward, into somebody that's pretty much an average to below average player.

In order to win, you've gotta put players in a position to use their strongest assets.... not force them to play a style that they just don't do with any sort of regularity.
For Marner to be at his best, he's gotta be in the open ice, making those cute plays; as those cute plays are what create goals. The challenge for Marner, especially playing in Toronto, is that the pressure of being the scapegoat in the playoffs likely makes him a little afraid to be as cute as he might be in the regular season.

Heck, I still remember that game 6 overtime against Montreal -- Leafs outshot the Habs by a ridiculous amount in OT, and all it took was 1 bad Travis Dermott giveaway on a nothing play to wrap it up.

Even shooting, let's not forget Marner scored 35 goals in 70 games one year. He can score... but again probably doesn't want to be remembered as teh guy who shot instead of passing it off to one of his more prolific goalscoring linemates.

if he goes to Florida... come playoffs, the corners still are the corners, the game is still physical and hes still slow, with a slow release and a weak shot.

Hes only going to look worse as he ages and he gets even slower.

 

[seanlinden]

if he goes to Florida... come playoffs, the corners still are the corners, the game is still physical and hes still slow, with a slow release and a weak shot.

Hes only going to look worse as he ages and he gets even slower.

Correct... but he might not be gripping the stick quite as hard, might be a little more decisive in making a cute play, and turning that from a bungled offensive zone opportunity to an open shot for one of his teammates.

 

[Antropovsky]

The example provided doesn't really show that at all though. There was a very clear and obvious play that needed to be made to keep the play alive and Marner still tries a completely unnecessary very low % move that ends up killing possession for his team. He stopped and pivoted right cause he had it in his head that he was gonna somehow dangle out 2 defenders, you just don't do shit like this in the playoffs.

Here is another one...i dont even need to try particularly hard to find them, these are all from game 4. This are why ive always said Matthews suffers playing with Marner in postseason. Marner is a black hole for possession:

Marner is first on Matthews faceoff win.

Marner heads for boards

Marner opts to turn blindly towards blueline directly into defender

Puck is easily stripped from Marner

Bruins take posession and faceoff win was for nothing

 

[Antropovsky]

Correct... but he might not be gripping the stick quite as hard, might be a little more decisive in making a cute play, and turning that from a bungled offensive zone opportunity to an open shot for one of his teammates.

How about the source of the quit crying bro comment by Nylander? Game 4 still and once again, Marner played a large role in leafs losing possession after a Matthews faceoff win.

QUIT CRYING BRO SHIFT:
Nylander's "quit crying, bro" comment was definitely a result of frustration from both Matthews and Nylander with Marner's soft play and constant complaints about the refs. Marner falling from a crosscheck and spending the rest of his shift complaining to the ref was the only significant moment that occurred during the shift immediately before they headed to the bench, where Nylander delivered the now-famous words.:

Matthews wins faceoff and nylander passes to mccabe, leafs have control

Leafs have possession and shocker, Marner goes to the front of the net

But hes there for less than a second before he collapses from a light crosscheck

Instead of getting up and playing, he turns his back on the play, preoccupied with complaining to the ref, leafs are now playing 5vs4.

The puck subsequently is clesred around Marners side of the boards and out, where Boston would take possession in Leafs zone.

Marner still complaining about the crosscheck at the end of the shift

Seconds later Nylander is caught on camera telling Marner to "quit fing crying bro"

 

[Hellcat]

Dubas had so much insight that Marner proceeded to throw up an even stinkier series against Montreal. Seemed to be some kind of merit to that criticism.

If fans continue to look at players through very very narrow tunnel vision to support their very very narrowly formed opinions of a player, I suppose so... who's the only player in Marner's draft year to have more points than Mitch? Since Mitch was drafted only 2 players in the draft years 2015 to present have have scored more points than Mitch. I wonder why Tree scoffed at the non-fan built narrative?

Wild that one person, in a team sport, is the only reason why the Leafs have not advanced past the 2nd round. Almost defies reasonable logic eh? Lemme guess the response .."Yeah but Mitch ... "

 

[ACC1224]

If fans continue to look at players through very very narrow tunnel vision to support their unwarranted dislike of a player, I suppose so... who's the only player in Marner's draft year to have more points than Mitch? Since Mitch was drafted only 2 players in the draft years 2015 to present have have scored more points than Mitch. I wonder why Tree scoffed at the non-fan built narrative?

Wild that one person, in a team sport, is the only reason why the Leafs have not advanced past the 2nd round. Almost defies reasonable logic eh? Lemme guess the response .."Yeah but Mitch ... "

Understanding Team sports isn't for everyone.

 

[Hellcat]

Understanding Team sports isn't for everyone.

It really isn't.

 

[Nineteen67]

How about the source of the quit crying bro comment by Nylander? Game 4 still and once again, Marner played a large role in leafs losing possession after a Matthews faceoff win.

QUIT CRYING BRO SHIFT:
Nylander's "quit crying, bro" comment was definitely a result of frustration from both Matthews and Nylander with Marner's soft play and constant complaints about the refs. Marner falling from a crosscheck and spending the rest of his shift complaining to the ref was the only significant moment that occurred during the shift immediately before they headed to the bench, where Nylander delivered the now-famous words.:

View attachment 904928
Matthews wins faceoff and nylander passes to mccabe, leafs have control

View attachment 904929
Leafs have possession and shocker, Marner goes to the front of the net
View attachment 904930
But hes there for less than a second before he collapses from a light crosscheck
View attachment 904931
Instead of getting up and playing, he turns his back on the play, preoccupied with complaining to the ref, leafs are now playing 5vs4.

View attachment 904932
The puck subsequently is clesred around Marners side of the boards and out, where Boston would take possession in Leafs zone.

View attachment 904933
Marner still complaining about the crosscheck at the end of the shift
View attachment 904934
Seconds later Nylander is caught on camera telling Marner to "quit fing crying bro"

8 yrs and several playoff failures later they still don’t understand you have to sacrifice in critical situations.
That’s who they are.

 

[ACC1224]

It really isn't.

I guess a vivid imagination with an irrational hate helps.
Pretty funny at any rate.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

This TEAM doesn’t work.

Resigning Marner = running it back.

He has to go so something else, anything else, can be tried.

I’d bench anyone who complains to the ref like that. It stems from Keefe’s weak coaching

 

[Nineteen67]

We're not "blaming" here... we're simply trying to understand how playing in a market like Toronto versus Florida is likely to affect different players.

Corners, physical hockey aren't his game. Engaging in that type of play turns him from the ~100 point $11m forward, into somebody that's pretty much an average to below average player.

In order to win, you've gotta put players in a position to use their strongest assets.... not force them to play a style that they just don't do with any sort of regularity.
For Marner to be at his best, he's gotta be in the open ice, making those cute plays; as those cute plays are what create goals. The challenge for Marner, especially playing in Toronto, is that the pressure of being the scapegoat in the playoffs likely makes him a little afraid to be as cute as he might be in the regular season.

Heck, I still remember that game 6 overtime against Montreal -- Leafs outshot the Habs by a ridiculous amount in OT, and all it took was 1 bad Travis Dermott giveaway on a nothing play to wrap it up.

Even shooting, let's not forget Marner scored 35 goals in 70 games one year. He can score... but again probably doesn't want to be remembered as teh guy who shot instead of passing it off to one of his more prolific goalscoring linemates.

What’s made him less effective in the playoffs is the cute plays are not there as often because teams are focussed on defending, particularly defending the shooters. You add in the fact he doesn’t have a great shot and he’s not very strong, it makes it tougher for a perimeter player.

Hopefully he’s worked on strength and conditioning to help his game

 

[ACC1224]

SIMMONS: Unaffected by Leon Draisaitl deal, Leafs are playing waiting game with Mitch Marner

Unaffected by the Leon Draisaitl signing with the Edmonton Oilers, the Toronto Maple Leafs are playing the waiting game with Mitch Marner.

torontosun.com

 

[Nineteen67]

How about the source of the quit crying bro comment by Nylander? Game 4 still and once again, Marner played a large role in leafs losing possession after a Matthews faceoff win.

QUIT CRYING BRO SHIFT:
Nylander's "quit crying, bro" comment was definitely a result of frustration from both Matthews and Nylander with Marner's soft play and constant complaints about the refs. Marner falling from a crosscheck and spending the rest of his shift complaining to the ref was the only significant moment that occurred during the shift immediately before they headed to the bench, where Nylander delivered the now-famous words.:

View attachment 904928
Matthews wins faceoff and nylander passes to mccabe, leafs have control

View attachment 904929
Leafs have possession and shocker, Marner goes to the front of the net
View attachment 904930
But hes there for less than a second before he collapses from a light crosscheck
View attachment 904931
Instead of getting up and playing, he turns his back on the play, preoccupied with complaining to the ref, leafs are now playing 5vs4.

View attachment 904932
The puck subsequently is clesred around Marners side of the boards and out, where Boston would take possession in Leafs zone.

View attachment 904933
Marner still complaining about the crosscheck at the end of the shift
View attachment 904934
Seconds later Nylander is caught on camera telling Marner to "quit fing crying bro"

It took about a month for some to start rewriting this history and forget what their eyes told them.

If you remember what you felt at that point, if you remember what you felt after the series, if you remember the reason why they lost again, you focus on fixing those things. His pre-game figure skating is elite, his ability to sacrifice and commit at NHL needs a lot of improvement.

He’s not the only one, they’ve built that culture and pride themselves for doing it. Can Berube change it? Does he have them working on it this summer?

 

[Dekes For Days]

It took about a month for some to start rewriting this history and forget what their eyes told them.

It took about a second for some to start rewriting what actually happened. They've now moved on to misrepresenting freeze frames and plays, and making false claims about a lack of effort/commitment/sacrifice.

 

[Antropovsky]

Understanding Team sports isn't for everyone.

You're right, Marner screws his linemates each shift by trying to do everything in his power to play noncontact hockey. If this was singles tennis, hed only be screwing himself. Consequencely, Matthews is criticized for his lack of production... you cant produce points when your linemate keeps giving away the puck, wont go into corners and only hangs out in open areas far from the net.

In game 4.. Matthews set Marner up for a scoring chance. Marner never set Matthews up though. Whose the "playmaker" again?

 

[IPS]

If fans continue to look at players through very very narrow tunnel vision to support their very very narrowly formed opinions of a player, I suppose so... who's the only player in Marner's draft year to have more points than Mitch? Since Mitch was drafted only 2 players in the draft years 2015 to present have have scored more points than Mitch. I wonder why Tree scoffed at the non-fan built narrative?

Wild that one person, in a team sport, is the only reason why the Leafs have not advanced past the 2nd round. Almost defies reasonable logic eh? Lemme guess the response .."Yeah but Mitch ... "

There's hello kitty again steering the conversation in a completely different direction than the original point.

Initially the talk was about pressure in Toronto and how it allegedly effects players here and now you're off on completely different tangent.

 

[IPS]

It took about a second for some to start rewriting what actually happened. They've now moved on to misrepresenting freeze frames and plays, and making false claims about a lack of effort/commitment/sacrifice.

Yeah sucks doesn't it. Dumbass plays that Mitch was making that's being demonstrated leads to having 3 points in 7 games.

Really refreshing seeing a pivot from the status quo excuse of being "goalie'd" though, haven't seen much rhetoric on that this offseason from you.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It's all Marner's fault.

The reason it's easy to scapegoat him is because he really is to blame. Pile all the team's troubles on Marner like he was a donkey. That's what fans should be doing.

Boo him, strip him of the A, and get him off the team.

I haven't seen a player this divisive in decades. Marner's more polarizing than my sunglasses. Losing him should be top priority if a change in the dressing room culture is to take place.

If ever there were a situation where losing a hundred point player for nothing was addition by subtraction this is it.

Is the goal to sell jersey's or win the cup. Because they're not winning a damn thing with Marner and that's a fact. Call it bad luck, lack of effort, playing scared, whatever you can come up with.

Once Marner is no longer a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs he'll have only himself blame.

 

[Nineteen67]

If fans continue to look at players through very very narrow tunnel vision to support their very very narrowly formed opinions of a player, I suppose so... who's the only player in Marner's draft year to have more points than Mitch? Since Mitch was drafted only 2 players in the draft years 2015 to present have have scored more points than Mitch. I wonder why Tree scoffed at the non-fan built narrative?

Wild that one person, in a team sport, is the only reason why the Leafs have not advanced past the 2nd round. Almost defies reasonable logic eh? Lemme guess the response .."Yeah but Mitch ... "

I look at 8 yrs and several examples of the core not performing in the playoffs. They don't commit and sacrifice when needed and naturally they don’t win series
This past year, Marner played worse than the other two. He played like he was disinterested, and at the time, no one denied what their eyes showed them.