Marner Predictions - What Happens Now

[ToneDog]

Regrettable that an extension is even being considered at any 11M+ number. Is there a single poster here who thinks we will win 8 playoff games let alone 4, let alone 16? These contracts are too rich. What are we just going to cut Tavares' salary, add it to Marner and keep both?

Guys you're killing me. Why are we keeping them let alone increasing their pay? I'm exasperated and cannot believe the short memories or how forgiving yall are.

"Well what changes are out there?"

I don't know I'm not being paid 4M+ per year. Ask the executives on the payroll who should know better.

34 and 88 already sucked up the cap increase and more. Let's keep the insanity going and give Marner the money we save from Tavares' pay cut. No team trying to win is running this 1 and 8 loser core back. They are mostly interested in keeping the season ticket suckers happy/entertained. Pelley's "we are not here to sell jerseys" line is laughable at this point.

 

[Racer88]

34 and 88 already sucked up the cap increase and more. Let's keep the insanity going and give Marner the money we save from Tavares' pay cut. No team trying to win is running this 1 and 8 loser core back. They are mostly interested in keeping the season ticket suckers happy/entertained. Pelley's "we are not here to sell jerseys" line is laughable at this point.

Agree with this 100%. Not only did they eat up the increase but actually put the cap model further behind. There is no end in sight to the madness

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Mitch ask 12.5M 8 years
Leafs position 11.5M 6 years
Biggest issue is leafs want NO trade restrictions
My guess is they will negotiate something in between on all major issues

He is worth nowhere near either of those figures and terms. If they re-sign him it shows this team is NOT SERIOUS about winning in the playoffs and thus Pelley's words ring truly hollow.

For all I care, our Leafs should trade this greedy, non-performing playoff player for a bag of pucks.

His regular season heroics means nothing if he can't duplicate it in the playoffs. At an $8M AAV, I would not have a problem with Money Mitch Marner. However, any sum over that is a rip off, and prevents our Leafs from acquiring better secondary support players.

JMH angry O.

$8 million is too high.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

His value will never be higher, he's a 50-70 point guy on a team that's not Toronto/Edmonton.

Same type of thing will happen with Mitch that happened to Jon H in calgary. Doesn't mean there bad players, or underperforming, just different system/game/players.

Yup.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Here's the frustrating thing for me...

Brad Treliving comes to Toronto as "the guy who let Johnny Gaudreau walk"; with the storyline of "that was terrible asset management he's probably learned his lesson".

He then does the same thing with William Nylander, gets pushed around in negotations, and overpays by about $1.5 to $2m.

Now, up for Marner... who will either likely get extended at a stupid rate, or walk for nothing.

What is SOOOOOO wrong with a little professional hardball? What's so wrong with saying "this is the number we can give you, you're not gonna like it, let's work together and get you to your next destination???"

Post of the thread. What MLSE does next will determine if they're serious about winning in the playoffs or serious about selling jerseys. I suspect Pelley will end up looking like a chump to serious fans.

 

[Menzinger]

You are mostly right but overpaying Marner because "it is his turn" is insanity.

He either takes market value or gives the Leafs a discount or he can GTFO. They cannot make the same mistake with Marner that they did with Nylander. Myself, I'd want to see what he does in the playoffs before I decide whether and how much to pay him or let him walk. I would also want the option to move him in the future. Full NMC is off the table unless he takes a major haircut.

As someone whose actually okay with a Marner extension, I'd fully agree that I don't understand the sentiment that they HAVE to extend him is nonsense.. particularly using the justification of 'i don't like Nylanders contract, therefore the team absolutely has to give Marner more money' as it doesn't make sense.

They either extend him to a number the team is comfortable with about moving forward or they can take the 11+ million in capspace and do something else with it.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

The rich teams with strong revenue sources love the salary cap and that’s why it’ll never go away.

Yup, because if there was no cap they actually might have some pressure to perform.

 

[ACC1224]

Of all the dumb things we read here daily, not understanding that winning “sells the most jerseys” currently leads the field.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

34 and 88 already sucked up the cap increase and more. Let's keep the insanity going and give Marner the money we save from Tavares' pay cut. No team trying to win is running this 1 and 8 loser core back. They are mostly interested in keeping the season ticket suckers happy/entertained. Pelley's "we are not here to sell jerseys" line is laughable at this point.

Sure is.

 

[ToneDog]

Of all the dumb things we read here daily, not understanding that winning “sells the most jerseys” currently leads the field.

You should email MLSEL and let them know because they haven't figured out the secret to winning since 1967. If you think every team in sports is in it to win it, you are in for a shock.

 

[notdoneyet]

You are mostly right but overpaying Marner because "it is his turn" is insanity.

He either takes market value or gives the Leafs a discount or he can GTFO. They cannot make the same mistake with Marner that they did with Nylander. Myself, I'd want to see what he does in the playoffs before I decide whether and how much to pay him or let him walk. I would also want the option to move him in the future. Full NMC is off the table unless he takes a major haircut.

Well you can keep on hoping because non of your wish list is going to happen.he will get just as much as Willy or more if they resign him. He will also get the NMC.
He has them by the balls
They got themselves into this mess
If they wait until the playoffs to sign him they will just give him the chance to pick his own destination

 

[Confucius]

34 and 88 already sucked up the cap increase and more. Let's keep the insanity going and give Marner the money we save from Tavares' pay cut. No team trying to win is running this 1 and 8 loser core back. They are mostly interested in keeping the season ticket suckers happy/entertained. Pelley's "we are not here to sell jerseys" line is laughable at this point.

Well they do pay the bills… lol!

 

[ACC1224]

You should email MLSEL and let them know because they haven't figured out the secret to winning since 1967. If you think every team in sports is in it to win it, you are in for a shock.

Go discuss your nonsense with those teams then.
Incompetence <> Indifference

 

[ToneDog]

Well you can keep on hoping because non of your wish list is going to happen.he will get just as much as Willy or more if they resign him. He will also get the NMC.
He has them by the balls
They got themselves into this mess
If they wait until the playoffs to sign him they will just give him the chance to pick his own destination

Mitch does not have them by the balls if they had any balls not to do what they did with 88. Johnny Hockey did not find that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. The same will be true for Mitch unless the Leafs fold like a cheap suitcase. Nobody but the Leafs would be stupid enough to give Willie that deal. The same is true for Marner. Neither is winning you a Cup. Sadly, the same might be true for 34.

Well they do pay the bills… lol!

LOL. 100%.

 

[oldwpgjet]

I'll start out by saying I don't like Mitch Marner or the leafs. Used to like them a long time ago, The Canadian sports networks ram the leafs down our throats so much that there are more people that hate the leafs. But if I was a Leafs fan , I would want to sign and keep Mitch Marner. Yes , he had a poor playoff but he was one of the top cogs to get the leafs to the playoffs. Seems full of himself but is a very good hockey player nonetheless. With time to reflect , I expect he will bring a better playoff effort next year if the leafs make the playoffs. I think the biggest problem with the leafs and I've said it for years now is until they get rid of that ridiculous Tavares contract (one more year I think), they don't have a hope at a Stanley cup. Four mega-contracts, Mathews, Nylander, Marner and Tavares just leaves too little for the rest of the team.

 

[Antropovsky]

I'll start out by saying I don't like Mitch Marner or the leafs. Used to like them a long time ago, The Canadian sports networks ram the leafs down our throats so much that there are more people that hate the leafs. But if I was a Leafs fan , I would want to sign and keep Mitch Marner. Yes , he had a poor playoff but he was one of the top cogs to get the leafs to the playoffs. Seems full of himself but is a very good hockey player nonetheless. With time to reflect , I expect he will bring a better playoff effort next year if the leafs make the playoffs. I think the biggest problem with the leafs and I've said it for years now is until they get rid of that ridiculous Tavares contract (one more year I think), they don't have a hope at a Stanley cup. Four mega-contracts, Mathews, Nylander, Marner and Tavares just leaves too little for the rest of the team.

He had "A" poor playoff? Mitch Marner has had 8 straight disappointing playoffs. Some performances were worse than others, but never once could you look back and say, "Wow, he was great." More often than not, you'd conclude he wasn't very good at all. Year after year, both the media and, often, management have acknowledged this. I can point to articles where Babcock criticized him years ago, and more recent comments from Dubas and Treliving, either stating outright or heavily implying the same thing. Of course, the media has been no kinder to him.

If it were just one bad year, it wouuld be a different story entirely. But as Albert Einstein reportedly once said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

The 7th option is too out there for HF. I like it, but some people are going to be bent out of shape.

The cabbage thing? That's what I voted for.

It's not like we actually have a say in any of it.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I think they’re going to re-sign him and keep selling jerseys and hope. If the young guys are good enough there’s no reason to believe they can’t win 2 rounds at least once in the next 4 years.

aka get to a conference final round?

I wish I had a crystal ball like 30 years ago, conference final is the best you can hope for.

I'd not bother at all if I knew that.

 

[Confucius]

Of all the dumb things we read here daily, not understanding that winning “sells the most jerseys” currently leads the field.

Yup, even a cap with a Stanley Cup Champions patch probably sells a million the 1st month.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why would he sewer his own negotiating position by putting himself in a position where he's gotta make the most important career decision to date in a manner of a few hours?

I'm not sure why you think he would be forcing himself to "make the most important career decision to date in a manner of a few hours".

First, I don't know why you think it would be only a few hours, or what few hours you're taking about.

Second, I don't know why you think playing for the Leafs this year will "sewer his own negotiating position".

According to his agent, he has already made the decision to play here this year. I don't think your opinion is relevant.

 

[ACC1224]

Yup, even a cap with a Stanley Cup Champions patch probably sells a million the 1st month.

Common sense isn’t always so common.

I’ve never gotten the blind hate being shown but there could at least be an attempt at some rational thought behind it.

 

[notdoneyet]

Mitch does not have them by the balls if they had any balls not to do what they did with 88. Johnny Hockey did not find that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. The same will be true for Mitch unless the Leafs fold like a cheap suitcase. Nobody but the Leafs would be stupid enough to give Willie that deal. The same is true for Marner. Neither is winning you a Cup. Sadly, the same might be true for 34.


LOL. 100%.

You see the difference is you are using marner as the scapegoat. Let’s call a spade a spade, if the leafs had any balls they would say to Tavares I’m sorry but your time in Toronto is done. Lightening make hard choices they let stamkos go without any hesitation. We will offer Tavares a 4/5 year contract at 5/6 million and be happy to do it.

I agree nylander and matthews don’t have the alpha gene to become a monster in the playoffs.we are subject to another 8 years of futility because we don’t have balls to make hard decisions.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yup, even a cap with a Stanley Cup Champions patch probably sells a million the 1st month.

It’d be just as good for the players association if the Leafs do well.


It’s too bad that they can’t work out, practice and it’s impossible to improve their skills at this stage of their careers.

 

[notdoneyet]

Mitch does not have them by the balls if they had any balls not to do what they did with 88. Johnny Hockey did not find that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. The same will be true for Mitch unless the Leafs fold like a cheap suitcase. Nobody but the Leafs would be stupid enough to give Willie that deal. The same is true for Marner. Neither is winning you a Cup. Sadly, the same might be true for 34.


LOL. 100%.

If Mitch doesn’t have them by the balls what is managements options.

Let him go for nothing
Sign him to his ask

That’s it. He can’t be traded. All this nonsense about taking away his playing time is ludicrous.
Leafs management has painted themselves into this corner and have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[notDatsyuk]

There are two problems with how Nylander's "situation" was dealt with.

Problem #1 is the timing. The fact that it was left to in-season, substantially handcuffed the Leafs ability to do trade him.

By not making a decision early last offseason, the Leafs put themselves in a position of three terrible choices... one being to lose him for nothing, two being to sign him to the bloated contract they did, and 3 being to try adn trade him mid-season.... which was never realistic because mid-season trades involving pending UFAs result in futures coming back, and the Leafs were never going to be sellers.

You want to talk comparables? Look no further at the teams you need to beat. The actual date that pen is put to paper is irrelevant. What's relevant, is in any given year, what you're getting paid relative to your comparables around the league.

Look no further than David Pastrnak's deal.... his contract & Nylander's overlap for 7 of 8 years. Pastrnak is the better player, without question. If Pastrnak is $11.25m, I think most would argue that Nylander should be between $9.5m and $10m. Not only does Nylander inexplicably earn more, but his contract carries substantially more bonus money; and full no movement protection. Sure, Nylander's is a year later, but I think all parties in the negotiation understand that the 8th year on his deal isn't "worth" the $11.5m.

As for Marner, it's this whole apparent "insistence" on not waiving. It just doesn't make any logical sense for player to not want to move to his next destination with a shiny new contract. The risk is massive.

I don't know where you get your information.

They did make a decision early last off season - they very clearly stated their priority was to sign Matthews and Nylander. They entertained offers, but obviously didn't like any, so they signed him for his original ask. It's a bit high thanks to Dubas, but certainly not 'bloated'. (I'm glad you agree the date was irrelevant.)

Pasternak signed a year earlier for $11.25. Signing a comparable player for $11.5 under a higher cap isn't unreasonable.

Bonus is irrelevant as far as total package goes - it just means he gets his money a bit sooner.

As for Marner, it's not 'apparent' - reputable sources say his agent very clearly said that. If you happen to think it makes no sense, take it up with his agent - don't blame me for stating facts you don't like.
I don't know where you get your information.

They did make a decision early last off season - they very clearly stated their priority was to sign Matthews and Nylander. They entertained offers, but obviously didn't like any, so they signed him for his original ask. It's a bit high thanks to Dubas, but certainly not 'bloated'. (I'm glad you agree the date was irrelevant.)

Pasternak signed a year earlier for $11.25. Signing a comparable player for $11.5 under a higher cap isn't unreasonable.

Bonus is irrelevant as far as total package goes - it just means he gets his money a bit sooner.

As for Marner, it's not 'apparent' - reputable sources say his agent very clearly said that. If you happen to think it makes no sense, take it up with his agent - don't blame me for stating facts you don't like.