TSN: Marner on tsn: "We are grown men".

[Apex Predator]

Some are negative because of the results. Others are negative because that is who they are. There are many alternatives to this board other than DVRing cheerleaders. People can enjoy watching the game with friends and the like, or stay and take the whinny posters with a grain of salt.
Like last season, many of the whinny posters are patting themselves on their back with their I told you sos, and like last year most of them will disappear if the team starts winning.

To be fair it works the other way too. The extreme pro side was patting themselves about great success.

We’re Leaf fans and no matter the side you are on we’re die hards. We want to see the leafs win.

 

[thewave]

To be fair it works the other way too. The extreme pro side was patting themselves about great success.

Also it we’re Leaf fans and no matter the side you are on we’re die hards. We want to see the leafs win.

There were threads about how much of a genius Dubas is...

 

[notbias]

You know what really went downhill Gary? Our expectations for this team and there was never a reason for that to happen. It's the product of organizational mismanagement. In the final year(s) of our most coveted players cost effective contracts, we should not be sitting here listening to team dramas and have a tender tandem this weak. .884 sv% on a "contender"?

Agreed about the sv%, we are 27th right now, just above Colorado, also not a contender... especially with this sample size this year.

 

[Enniskillen]

This team is a sh.t show full of unnecessary drama, I wish we were a smaller market like Ottawa. More ways to enjoy hockey and no diva, kardashian and media shenanigans. Want a team based in Hamilton or Mississauga, smth like Ontario Bulldogs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You know what really went downhill Gary? Our expectations for this team and there was never a reason for that to happen. It's the product of organizational mismanagement. In the final year(s) of our most coveted players cost effective contracts, we should not be sitting here listening to team dramas and have a tender tandem this weak. .884 sv% on a "contender"?

The bolded is a prime example of the over the top negativity which makes this place hard to take at times. Whining about SV% after 4 games, seriously dude, do the words "sample size" mean nothing to you?

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry so I guess I'll , seems healthier.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You mean HFLeafs? This place is always a full blown dumpster fire.

I’m a Leafs fan who can’t stand to be in this board more than 5 minutes at a time. The relentless negativity is embarrassing to even associate with.

I used to mention this forum to people as a place where you could talk about the Leafs and find some interesting insight offered by intelligent people. I mean technically that's still true, but the amount of shit you have to wade through to find the good stuff has gotten to the point where I don't mention it to people any more for that exact reason.

 

[Mess]

How many bullets does Sheldon Keefe have left in the chamber?

First the Leafs so-call coach calls out his star players after an embarrassing loss to an inferior opponent by punching down on the opposition.

“Our best people have not found a rhythm,” Keefe said. “The difference between us and Arizona is that we have elite players. And our elite players didn’t play like elite players.”

This coming after the Maple Leafs coughed up Wednesday’s opener in Montreal, where the so-called head coach deemed it an “unacceptable” showing against last year’s 32nd-place team.

Now Mitch and his gang informed the Leafs so-called coach that their "grown men" and don't appreciate being called out for their play, and when they want the coaches opinion they'll ask him.

So Keefe in his Press Conference thereafter clarified ... “I used some of the wrong words to try describe what I was trying to describe that the difference in the game was, we weren’t able to produce,” Keefe explained. “By no means was I meaning anything beyond that. They didn’t know what I was talking about, which is a good thing. At the same time important that they know where I was coming from.”

Keefe's backtracking cleanup comment almost worse then his original one.,

However now we all know where the coach stands in the pecking hierarchy, and who is calling the shots "the players" and who is expected to just stand behind the bench and pretend to be coaching this team.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I used to mention this forum to people as a place where you could talk about the Leafs and find some interesting insight offered by intelligent people. I mean technically that's still true, but the amount of shit you have to wade through to find the good stuff has gotten to the point where I don't mention it to people any more for that exact reason.

I think the nature of the org over the last 10 or so years contributes to this.

Instead of just having a somewhat stable organization with some success and feel good stories, it's been constant choke jobs, controversial management choices, embarrassing moments, etc.

There's some negativity in the Raptors world as well, but in general, there is a much better vibe, a lot more trust in management. A championship helps, but also just having some good playoff moments, and a comparatively stable management group and strategy.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think the nature of the org over the last 10 or so years contributes to this.

Instead of just having a somewhat stable organization with some success and feel good stories, it's been constant choke jobs, controversial management choices, embarrassing moments, etc.

There's some negativity in the Raptors world as well, but in general, there is a much better vibe, a lot more trust in management. A championship helps, but also just having some good playoff moments, and a comparatively stable management group and strategy.

I think it's just the lack of playoff success and considering that there hasn't been any, the org is as stable as could possibly be under the circumstances.

Is there negativity in the Raptor world? I don't regularly participate in the Raps forum but when I do look it doesn't seem toxic at all. And everyone I talk to about the Raptors loves them as do I, they're basically a model franchise.

 

[BallardEra]

The bolded is a prime example of the over the top negativity which makes this place hard to take at times. Whining about SV% after 4 games, seriously dude, do the words "sample size" mean nothing to you?

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry so I guess I'll , seems healthier.

With your user name I'm guessing you've been a fan for quite some time. I come to this place with an open mind and don't take it that seriously. At the end of the day many will agree, disagree, troll, argue but I'm sure everyone here wants to see the Leafs win the Cup.

You'll have overly positive people and overly negative ones. I don't care what anyone posts as long as they're not verbally attacking someone or saying things that don't belong in a hockey forum.

You're a solid member here too so just roll with it is what I say.

 

[ACC1224]

There were threads about how much of a genius Dubas is...

To be fair he has "passed all the tests"

 

[ToneDog]

To be fair he has "passed all the tests"

He did fail to get an extension though.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Thinking about this again, I can't believe Keefe retracted his comments. Talk about being spineless. That was as harmless a comment as it comes, and he felt the need to completely withdraw it.

 

[Trapper]

To be fair he has "passed all the tests"

Yes indeed but I guess his legendary coach is having trouble now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

With your user name I'm guessing you've been a fan for quite some time. I come to this place with an open mind and don't take it that seriously. At the end of the day many will agree, disagree, troll, argue but I'm sure everyone here wants to see the Leafs win the Cup.

You'll have overly positive people and overly negative ones. I don't care what anyone posts as long as they're not verbally attacking someone or saying things that don't belong in a hockey forum.

You're a solid member here too so just roll with it is what I say.

All this is true.

I've been a fan since maybe 1970 or so. Just long enough to have lived through all the misery but barely missed the glory of winning the cup(s).

I guess I'm used to this place by now, it's just a bit sad that the lack of success has caused so many people to lose their ability do discuss things rationally.

 

[Trapper]

All this is true.

I've been a fan since maybe 1970 or so. Just long enough to have lived through all the misery but barely missed the glory of winning the cup(s).

I guess I'm used to this place by now, it's just a bit sad that the lack of success has caused so many people to lose their ability do discuss things rationally.

Everyone has their frustration and breaking point.
Especially depending on how long you’ve been a fan and the type of team concept you believe in.
Sometimes it’s good to vent or make jokes to deal with it. It depends on individuals reading posts. Sometimes we like, sometimes we disagree and you can respond or we all have the option to pass by it.

 

[Mess]

What Keefe should say after every embarrassing Leafs loss is, and stop burying the punchline.

"GM Kyle Dubas has informed me, to inform you elite players, that since the Leafs have invested 1/2 their entire salary cap in just you 4 forwards, that we expect those 4 elite forwards to show up each game particularly in the boxscore, or Kyle and I will be walking out the door shortly looking for new employment: ..

That should make it crystal clear enough to the players, so there is no misunderstanding when the coach calls out their poor play, and what is really the organizations agenda by doing so, as coach and GM finish out their current contracts and desperately need success and progress.

 

[killer1980]

It's a different world then most of us grew up in. A coach like Toe Blake, Punch Imlach or Scotty Bowman wouldn't survive 5 minutes in the league today. Not too long ago, I told a person working under me that they were doing a lousy job, that was it. That day I was pulled into HR, rebuked, told I couldn't say that and was written up. (Never really understood what being written up means anyway). But I digress. it is now a situation where the employee has much more power than the employer. Clearly, that is one of the reasons the economy is going in the crapper. I got the strap in school, paddled at camp and spanked at home. Guess that's the reason I'm so f***ed up. But I digress. Bottom line is the players rule the roost. It is them and them alone that will decide the future of those above them. Make no mistake the players here are playing for themselves and not anybody else. Today there is nothing anybody can do to change that. If and when they decide to play like "grown men" is totally up to them.

Keefe's days are numbered!

 

[thewave]

What Keefe should say after every embarrassing Leafs loss is, and stop burying the punchline.

"GM Kyle Dubas has informed me, to inform you elite players, that since the Leafs have invested 1/2 their entire salary cap in just you 4 forwards, that we expect those 4 elite forwards to show up each game particularly in the boxscore, or Kyle and I will be walking out the door shortly looking for new employment: ..

That should make it crystal clear enough to the players, so there is no misunderstanding when the coach calls out their poor play, and what is really the organizations agenda by doing so, as coach and GM finish out their current contracts and desperately need success and progress.

It's the truth but he would be fired the next day. Guys like Dubas are very good a shifting blame. He's a total pro at it. Look how he has snowed Shanny and I am guessing the Leafs Board.

 

[PromisedLand]

This team is a sh.t show full of unnecessary drama, I wish we were a smaller market like Ottawa. More ways to enjoy hockey and no diva, kardashian and media shenanigans. Want a team based in Hamilton or Mississauga, smth like Ontario Bulldogs.

Ottawa had more drama.... There were memes on the mains saying "X number of days since last incidence in Ottawa"

- Karlsson/Hoffman
- Karlsson/Melnyk (cab drive)
- Uber/Cab video getting leaked
- Melnyk/Boro doing video
- "We are a team"
- etc....

All this just top of my head

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's a different world then most of us grew up in. A coach like Toe Blake, Punch Imlach or Scotty Bowman wouldn't survive 5 minutes in the league today. Not too long ago, I told a person working under me that they were doing a lousy job, that was it. That day I was pulled into HR, rebuked, told I couldn't say that and was written up. (Never really understood what being written up means anyway). But I digress. it is now a situation where the employee has much more power than the employer. Clearly, that is one of the reasons the economy is going in the crapper. I got the strap in school, paddled at camp and spanked at home. Guess that's the reason I'm so f***ed up. But I digress. Bottom line is the players rule the roost. It is them and them alone that will decide the future of those above them. Make no mistake the players here are playing for themselves and not anybody else. Today there is nothing anybody can do to change that. If and when they decide to play like "grown men" is totally up to them.

Keefe's days are numbered!

Back in the day, players (and employees in general) were routinely treated unfairly as the owners/employers had all the power so I for one, would not use the old days as something to wish for. Perhaps it's only natural that the pendulum has swung in the players/employees direction, and it will swing back and forth a few more times (with progressively smaller arcs) before finally settling in where it should be?

One can hope.

 

[killer1980]

Back in the day, players (and employees in general) were routinely treated unfairly as the owners/employers had all the power so I for one, would not use the old days as something to wish for. Perhaps it's only natural that the pendulum has swung in the players/employees direction, and it will swing back and forth a few more times (with progressively smaller arcs) before finally settling in where it should be?

One can hope.

I agree! Not really wishing for the old days however, I was so scared of the consequences that I towed the line. I think most employees felt the same. Things as far I am concerned progressed more efficiently back then but, at what cost? I cannot really answer that question. I do know it has to be tough to be an employer, coach or GM these days. I'd love to have the opportunity but I wouldn't last as long as Liz Truss.

 

[thewave]

It's a different world then most of us grew up in. A coach like Toe Blake, Punch Imlach or Scotty Bowman wouldn't survive 5 minutes in the league today. Not too long ago, I told a person working under me that they were doing a lousy job, that was it. That day I was pulled into HR, rebuked, told I couldn't say that and was written up. (Never really understood what being written up means anyway). But I digress. it is now a situation where the employee has much more power than the employer. Clearly, that is one of the reasons the economy is going in the crapper. I got the strap in school, paddled at camp and spanked at home. Guess that's the reason I'm so f***ed up. But I digress. Bottom line is the players rule the roost. It is them and them alone that will decide the future of those above them. Make no mistake the players here are playing for themselves and not anybody else. Today there is nothing anybody can do to change that. If and when they decide to play like "grown men" is totally up to them.

Keefe's days are numbered!

If you can't be honest, you can't amount to anything. I don't believe it's possible for these players to be honest with each other or play with each other to win. They have a me first aura about them that is demonstrated in the media repeatedly. It's as if Dubas was never taught that with people, if you give an inch, they will take a mile. It's human nature and even guys like O'Dog have talked about players mailing it in routinely in poor or relaxed environments.

I think maybe Lou could have reigned them in but at this point, I see a spoiled bunch due to a soft organization.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

The bolded is a prime example of the over the top negativity which makes this place hard to take at times. Whining about SV% after 4 games, seriously dude, do the words "sample size" mean nothing to you?

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry so I guess I'll , seems healthier.

It is true though. I mean we could have Colorado's stellar 0.893.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If you can't be honest, you can't amount to anything. I don't believe it's possible for these players to be honest with each other or play with each other to win. They have a me first aura about them that is demonstrated in the media repeatedly. It's as if Dubas was never taught that with people, if you give an inch, they will take a mile. It's human nature and even guys like O'Dog have talked about players mailing it in routinely in poor or relaxed environments.

I think maybe Lou could have reigned them in but at this point, I see a spoiled bunch due to a soft organization.

It sounds like you're talking about one of the worst teams in the league, not a team that last season finished 4th overall, almost beat the two time defending champs in the playoffs and is currently a top contender to win the cup.