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Marner haters right now

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zeke said:
Well I actually think they end up facing the other teams' top lines more than their bottom lines tbh.
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I really don’t know.
If Leafs is playing away, opposing teams will play their best defensive line against them esp in the Ozone. And if given a choice, Keefe will always play Kampf’s line in the Dzone both home and away, and teams tend to play their offensive line if the faceoff is in their ozone.
Ofcourse all these will be thrown out if the opposing teams or Leafs are chasing or pressing but that usually don’t happen till the 3rd period.
Kampf’s line via eye test and advanced stats shown they played the toughest minutes due to starting in the Dzone and against opposing top lines, if that’s the case, how would AM’s line be playing against opposing top lines more than opposing teams lesser lines.
Once again, I am not challenging you but rather just trying to get a better picture.
 
Gabriel426 said:
I really don’t know.
If Leafs is playing away, opposing teams will play their best defensive line against them esp in the Ozone. And if given a choice, Keefe will always play Kampf’s line in the Dzone both home and away, and teams tend to play their offensive line if the faceoff is in their ozone.
Ofcourse all these will be thrown out if the opposing teams or Leafs are chasing or pressing but that usually don’t happen till the 3rd period.
Kampf’s line via eye test and advanced stats shown they played the toughest minutes due to starting in the Dzone and against opposing top lines, if that’s the case, how would AM’s line be playing against opposing top lines more than opposing teams lesser lines.
Once again, I am not challenging you but rather just trying to get a better picture.
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Kampf line does get dzone starts but not necessarily the toughest matchups.

Tonight Matthews went up against the Panarin line the most.

Matthews opposition:

1. Panarin 8:04 - Strome 7:40 - Kakko 7:37
2. Lafreniere 3:48 - Chytil 4:31 - Gauthier 4:19
3. Kreider 2:52 - Zibanejad 3:42 - Goodrow 3:37


Kampf:

1. Kreider 6:34 - Zibanejad 6:57 - Goodrow 6:49
2. Lafreniere 3:25 - Chytil 3:07 - Gauthier 3:22
3. Panarin 3:07 - Strome 2:55 - Kakko 3:07


Matthews doesn't get sheltered at all. He goes up against the top lines.
 
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zeke said:
Kampf line does get dzone starts but not necessarily the toughest matchups.

Tonight Matthews went up against the Panarin line the most.

Matthews opposition:

1. Panarin 8:04 - Strome 7:40 - Kakko 7:37
2. Lafreniere 3:48 - Chytil 4:31 - Gauthier 4:19
3. Kreider 2:52 - Zibanejad 3:42 - Goodrow 3:37


Kampf:

1. Kreider 6:34 - Zibanejad 6:57 - Goodrow 6:49
2. Lafreniere 3:25 - Chytil 3:07 - Gauthier 3:22
3. Panarin 3:07 - Strome 2:55 - Kakko 3:07


Matthews doesn't get sheltered at all. He goes up against the top lines.
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I never said AM’s lines get sheltered rather I said would his line be up against opposing shut down line more than opposing top lines esp if Leafs is the away team.

Rangers might not be a good example bc they don’t really have a shut down line.
Also Panarin is the most dangerous player on the Rangers but their top producing line is the Zibanejad line.
Quite surprised that Keefe didn’t let AM’s line to play against the Chytil’s line more.
The irony is AM’s line got scored on by the Rangers fourth line tonight. Lol
 
Gabriel426 said:
Just asking questions, when it comes to defensive stats for guys like AM and MM, do they really tell the whole picture though since opposing teams will employ their version of shut down line(both forward and defence). And shutdown line are often not offensive players unless it is Bruins.
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That's easy - the answer is that stats never tell the whole picture.
 
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zeke said:
You're very demanding. That defensive GAR I don't think is an unweighted average - I think it's an accumulated total.

And I don't know where to find gar percentiles.

Xga is good enough for me anyways.

But if you disagree maybe provide your own evidence?
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Go to the player card in charts.
Should have a 3 year span there
 
VanW27 said:
No points, fly by that lead to the goal against, very few quality chances for.

I think he was fine, made some good plays but in no way was dominant or imposed himself on the game. Doesn't pass the bar for 'beast' for me.
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He was third highest on the team for expected goals next to Kampf and Tavares in that game.
 
stickty111 said:
If Nylander did that, he would hear about it. Since Marner did it, nothing.
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Or people like yourself that point out every single Marner error, like anything that disparages him and ignore Willie. I mean you’re talking about yourself, selective criticism and biased analysis. It’s just projection.
 
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Peasy said:
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Bad play there but he does that same anticipating the pass for the steal all the time and is more successful at it than not.
Not sure that will ever change.

I'm sure there are tons of video of great defensive plays from that game. I know I saw a bunch.
 
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VanW27 said:
No points, fly by that lead to the goal against, very few quality chances for.

I think he was fine, made some good plays but in no way was dominant or imposed himself on the game. Doesn't pass the bar for 'beast' for me.
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Not a "fly by" by any stretch, he was looking to pressure a pass and instead bit on a pretty good bit of puck magic, Mitch fell and the Rag took a skate setting up behind the net.
 
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therealkoho said:
Not a "fly by" by any stretch, he was looking to pressure a pass and instead bit on a pretty good bit of puck magic, Mitch fell and the Rag took a skate setting up behind the net.
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Are we talking about the same play, Hunt just turns and flings it at the net, there's no "puck magic".

Marner guesses pass and tries to go for the pickoff. He ends up taking himself out of the play as he's skating out to centre ice as the play is going towards the Leaf net. Hunt just shoots and then goes to the slot where he's all alone to bury the rebound.

If Marner takes the man instead of cheating for the pass to try and create a breakaway he either stops the shot from happening altogether or is with Hunt to stop him from getting the rebound. Either way, no goal against. It's not even a terrible play in my mind, just a small detail that in this instance ended up in the back of the net.

Listen I'm not trying to nitpick or say Marner played bad, I thought he had a good game. Like I said earlier, made a number of good defensive plays, but also cost us the goal against, head some zone time but very few chances (HDSC, Marner had 1, Ritchie had 1, Matthews had 0). I wouldn't even have commented except for people calling it a two-way 'beast' performance.

Edit: You can even just look at his reaction after the goal, he knows he made a mistake. Again, not trying to rip the kid - it happens, just pointing out what happened and why that play ended up in a goal against.
 
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Racer88 said:
I can’t help myself…….expected goals…..bwahahahaha. You do know they don’t count right, only real goals. How many of them did he get. I will give you a hint
ZERO
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You must have a reading comprehension issue. I was replying to a claim of very few quality chances for. Maybe you should stop getting high on your own farts and pay attention. This level of unawareness really is setting a terrible impression.
 
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stickty111 said:
If Nylander did that, he would hear about it. Since Marner did it, nothing.
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1. Marner gets infinitely more blame for everything than Nylander; overwhelming majority of which is undeserved.
2. Marner didn't do anything wrong there. He anticipated the puck movement and got in the way to deflect or steal, but the Ranger player flubbed it.
 
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