Marner haters right now

[IPS]

Remember Marner set the bar for Rantanen...

Agreed... saw Marner got on the board yesterday and then watched replay and it was an empty net goal. Meanwhile 7 million dollar Kyle Connor has 12 goals and 20 points im 15 games. When your paying a 25 year old 10 million per year it makes sense because, generally you know what your getting in comparison to others of the same development. But if you pay a 22 year old 11 million long term, but players with better or just as good pedigree get 7 million long term but are on worse teams or are being brought along differently than it makes no sense in a salary cap world.

i said it when Marner signed.... he peaked early because of circumstance and now we will suffer in comparison to other teams about to sign others of the same ability or better. When Connor signed i said his trajectory and his accomplishments after his draft indicate he will prob be even or surpass Marner in a short amount of time... but he will be paid a fraction of Marner. Many laughed and said... marner is way better than Connor and said the same when i said Point. Prob same posters who said i was an idiot in game 2 when i said Marner wasnt playing good...and the same posters who come out when Marner has a 2 point game and say "ha see!!", than go quiet when hes invisble for the next three games.

You think Kyle Connor is going to be better than Marner going forward?

 

[IPS]

Next time folks are fretting over "bad" contracts, imagine this:

Gallagher: 6 yrs/$6.5M
Anderson: 6 yrs/$5.5M
Dvorak: 4 yrs/$4.45M
Toffoli: 3yrs/$4.25M
Armia: 4yrs/$3.4M
Petry: 4yrs/$6.25M
Savard: 4yrs/$3.5M
Price: 5yrs/$10.5M
Joel E: 3yrs/$3.5M
Weber 5 yrs/$7.8M

Why Petry on the list? I know he's having a rough start to the year, but 18 bad games doesn't erase the impressive 4 years prior to this year.

 

[IPS]

You mean the amazing opportunity where Marner threaded a perfect pass over to Matthews; creating movement in the goalie and forcing Saros to fully extend in order to barely make a miraculous save on the best goal scorer in the world?

Yeesh dude. Look again, Saros cheated hard towards Matthews, and in a very pronounced way because of how short of a goalie he is. Hindsight is 20/20 but Marner should have went top-shelf there.

 

[Gabriel426]

If we are talking about the 2 V 1 with AM last night.
It was a great pass, great shot and a great save.
I don’t mind Marner passing on that play but Marner never even look at the Goalie and his positioning never even hinted at him shooting. I think if he looked at the goalie once esp right before he passed the puck and also his positioning showed he might shoot, the goalie will be hesitant for a split second and that split second late reaction might be the difference between great play, high danger chance and goalie made a great save to what a goal by AM and a pass by MM. it might not be much in the regular season but it could be the diff between losing and winning a playoff game.

 

[nuck]

why would you want that? As fans we should all be pro athlete. f*** the greedy owners.

In a salary cap world fans have to be pro owner. The death of performance incentives means young stars expect to be paid as though they will constantly improve + plus cap inflation while older vets want to be paid as though they won't age. There are way more overpaid players than underpaid ones and agents have no interest in things ever changing.

 

[wingman75]

Yeesh dude. Look again, Saros cheated hard towards Matthews, and in a very pronounced way because of how short of a goalie he is. Hindsight is 20/20 but Marner should have went top-shelf there.

Meh, maybe. But Marner is an elite passer, and he made a great pass. So he did his part. Goalie made a good save, even though he read the predictable play; Marner might want to work on mixing things up in 'obvious' situations. I heard a lot of talk about how hard he worked on his shot in the off season. Would have been an opportine time to show it.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeesh dude. Look again, Saros cheated hard towards Matthews, and in a very pronounced way because of how short of a goalie he is. Hindsight is 20/20 but Marner should have went top-shelf there.

There wasn’t a person in the building or at home watching that didn’t know a pass was coming there. He does need to be a little selfish at times but that’s not in him.

 

[kb]

You think Kyle Connor is going to be better than Marner going forward?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Next time folks are fretting over "bad" contracts, imagine this:

Gallagher: 6 yrs/$6.5M
Anderson: 6 yrs/$5.5M
Dvorak: 4 yrs/$4.45M
Toffoli: 3yrs/$4.25M
Armia: 4yrs/$3.4M
Petry: 4yrs/$6.25M
Savard: 4yrs/$3.5M
Price: 5yrs/$10.5M
Joel E: 3yrs/$3.5M
Weber 5 yrs/$7.8M

People have said it many times. Gimme an overpaid Matthews or Marner 8 days a week over boat anchor contracts like Marleau's was. Yes, the Leafs may have left a couple of million on the table for some of their stars but that is more than offset by not having two or three $5M+ wasted contracts.

 

[kb]

People have said it many times. Gimme an overpaid Matthews or Marner 8 days a week over boat anchor contracts like Marleau's was. Yes, the Leafs may have left a couple of million on the table for some of their stars but that is more than offset by not having two or three $5M+ wasted contracts.

Not according to the aluminum hat and room temp IQ crowd.

To them it's the biggest blunder in world history. Because they don't like glasses.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Not according to the aluminum hat and room temp IQ crowd.

To them it's the biggest blunder in world history. Because they don't like glasses.

I've been critical of Zeke (cough) I mean Dubas over a few issues but cap management isn't one of them. He did the best he could and *still* has the out that he can trade a big contract if things don't go as planned. Peeps that focus on the Tavares contract as being some sort of mistake never understand that all it gave was options. From day one the worst it mean was we get Tavares and lose (for example) Nylander. I;m pretty damned sure 99% of people would have made that trade straight-up at the time.

You can criticize him if you want that he's doubled down on keeping the full core for too long - that's a fair discussion point if that's what you believe - but the original decision was the right one because it gave very good options and we gave nothing up except money. And again, we *still* have those options. So this isn't a cap management discussion at all. It's a team makeup discussion.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Lol some posters are too predictable. Imagine whining about making a pass to a top 3 goal scorer that goes in 9/10 times. The same people would be whining about 'muffin shot' Marner taking a shot instead of passing if he passed instead.

 

[Notsince67]

Not according to the aluminum hat and room temp IQ crowd.

To them it's the biggest blunder in world history. Because they don't like glasses.

The deepest problem is that the leafs lost 1 game in the last 10. They would be happier if they lost significantly more

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Why Petry on the list? I know he's having a rough start to the year, but 18 bad games doesn't erase the impressive 4 years prior to this year.

Not my list but I presume it is with a lens to this year in part.

 

[ER89]

There wasn’t a person in the building or at home watching that didn’t know a pass was coming there. He does need to be a little selfish at times but that’s not in him.

It's not so much about being selfish as it is about being not so obvious.

 

[kb]

The deepest problem is that the leafs lost 1 game in the last 10. They would be happier if they lost significantly more

True, I forgot that winning is a nightmare for their narratives. I should really be more in tune with their pain and suffering.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

People have said it many times. Gimme an overpaid Matthews or Marner 8 days a week over boat anchor contracts like Marleau's was. Yes, the Leafs may have left a couple of million on the table for some of their stars but that is more than offset by not having two or three $5M+ wasted contracts.

Precisely. One of the few teams in the league without any saddling contracts. Jury may be out on some newer ones but it just kinda makes one chuckle to hear whinging about cap.

 

[zeke]

Why Petry on the list? I know he's having a rough start to the year, but 18 bad games doesn't erase the impressive 4 years prior to this year.

How many 34yr old dmen out there do you want to hand 4yrs x $6.25m to?

Especially when they've only ever looked good playing behind a guy who took all the toughest matchup for him?

 

[VanW27]

You think Kyle Connor is going to be better than Marner going forward?

Just to play devils advocate:

Last season and this season so far combined

Marner - 72GP, 24G, 58A, 82pts
Connor - 71 GP, 38G, 32A, 70pts

Marner has a nice lead in points (12) but Connor has a big lead in goals (14). You could make a pretty good case that they have been roughly equivalent offensive producers over that time.

Marner also has the benefit of being a playmaker who plays with the leagues best goal scorer, of course the Jets have plenty of firepower up front as well.

They are roughly the same age (Connor is 5 months older).

On the surface I'd say they seem like similar players in terms of impact, of course Marner is significantly better off the puck, Connor is a bit of disaster defensively.

 

[therealkoho]

Not according to the aluminum hat and room temp IQ crowd.

To them it's the biggest blunder in world history. Because they don't like glasses.

It's Paul I tell ya, it's all Paul's doing on that contract they forced the Leafs into.

 

[francis246]

Yeesh dude. Look again, Saros cheated hard towards Matthews, and in a very pronounced way because of how short of a goalie he is. Hindsight is 20/20 but Marner should have went top-shelf there.

LOL and then people would have been saying he should have passed it to Matthews if he took a shot

 

[ACC1224]

Of all the stupid things I've seen posted here over the years and there has been a ton, the brain dead "you hate Dubas because of his glasses" might be at the top of the list.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not according to the aluminum hat and room temp IQ crowd.

To them it's the biggest blunder in world history. Because they don't like glasses.

The deepest problem is that the leafs lost 1 game in the last 10. They would be happier if they lost significantly more

True, I forgot that winning is a nightmare for their narratives. I should really be more in tune with their pain and suffering.

Thanks guys. Always rewarding to see people expressing their POV in a thoughtful and respectful fashion.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Look again, Saros cheated hard towards Matthews, and in a very pronounced way because of how short of a goalie he is.

so you can say with 100% certainty that the goalie wasnt anticipating that pass the entire time?

I think you guys are seeing what you want to see here. There is no indication that Saros was anticipating the pass, and he was not cheating to Matthews' side at all. He's squared up to Marner pretty much the whole time, letting his defender handle the pass. In fact, in the secondary view from behind, you can clearly see Saros push off towards Marner's side right before the pass happens; ending with his skate on the right line of the crease. This is why he falls on his butt when he quickly moves back to the left side, and requires a full extension to even have a chance at the save. If the goalie was expecting it, he sure did a lousy job of setting up for it.

Let's be real here - if Marner had taken that shot instead, it would just be complaints about his "peewee muffin shot" and we'd be back to hyper-focusing in on a playmaker's goal totals in specific game states in specific samples. It would be all "Matthews was wide open; why would he shoot there instead of going for the higher percentage play with the best goal scorer in the world!? So selfish! Wasted the opportunity!" And I know that because it's pretty much what happens every time Marner has an opportunity like that and decides to shoot. Which actually happens a lot more than you seem to think.

if Marner occasionally actually shot the puck i wouldnt be upset with this attempt

For the record, Marner is averaging just under 3 shots a game (33rd in the league), which is really not low at all, especially for the type of player he is. He's been shooting in those odd-man situations a lot more over the past couple years.

The simple fact here is, Marner took a good opportunity, and turned it into an even better opportunity, and we almost got a goal out of it. We dominated and won the game. There is no cause to be upset. Even if we were to go by the unsupported theory that a pass was "expected", that still doesn't automatically make it the wrong play. A shot from Matthews after cross-ice puck movement is still a better chance, even if suspected, than a Marner shot with no puck movement. Do you go around blasting Ovechkin for taking shots from his PP spot, because he's doing what the opposition is "expecting"?

 

[Racer88]

Lol some posters are too predictable. Imagine whining about making a pass to a top 3 goal scorer that goes in 9/10 times. The same people would be whining about 'muffin shot' Marner taking a shot instead of passing if he passed instead.

So are you implying that Matthews has a 90% shooting average……..interesting but delusional