Marner haters right now

[DarkKnight]

Marner is the most complete 200 foot player on the team right now.

 

[zeke]

Marner is the most complete 200 foot player on the team right now.

Nah that's Matthews, by a healthy margin.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner is the most complete 200 foot player on the team right now.

He's always been. Matthews is pretty good as well but Marner is much more consistent.

 

[DarkKnight]

He's always been. Matthews is pretty good as well but Marner is much more consistent.

The coach agrees.

 

[666]

So are you implying that Matthews has a 90% shooting average……..interesting but delusional

You can't be serious. No one could be this out of touch. How did you draw this implication from what the person said?

 

[ACC1224]

The coach agrees.

Must be the glasses.

 

[Beaumaris]

Give your head a shake. Mathews had his best seasons playing with Marner, so did JT, JVR , Bozak and Kadri. The guy simply makes players around him better.

Making those around you better,is a sign of greatness in any walk of life.

 

[zeke]

Matthews vs Marner, Defensively

Even Strength

1st 3 seasons

Matthews: 2.66ga/60 (+.21rel), 2.86xga/60 (+.19rel)
Marner: 2.63ga/60 (+.02rel), 2.66xga/60 (-.03rel)

Last 3 seasons:

Matthews: 2.15ga/60 (-.30rel), 2.19xga/60 (-.13rel)
Marner: 2.51ga/60 (+.11rel), 2.26xga/60 (-.04rel)


Mitch was better defensively to start their careers but Matthews put on his defensive cap a few years ago and has taken over the lead defensively on the team - especially important given that centers are far more important defensively than wingers.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think you guys are seeing what you want to see here. There is no indication that Saros was anticipating the pass, and he was not cheating to Matthews' side at all. He's squared up to Marner pretty much the whole time, letting his defender handle the pass. In fact, in the secondary view from behind, you can clearly see Saros push off towards Marner's side right before the pass happens; ending with his skate on the right line of the crease. This is why he falls on his butt when he quickly moves back to the left side, and requires a full extension to even have a chance at the save. If the goalie was expecting it, he sure did a lousy job of setting up for it.

Let's be real here - if Marner had taken that shot instead, it would just be complaints about his "peewee muffin shot" and we'd be back to hyper-focusing in on a playmaker's goal totals in specific game states in specific samples. It would be all "Matthews was wide open; why would he shoot there instead of going for the higher percentage play with the best goal scorer in the world!? So selfish! Wasted the opportunity!" And I know that because it's pretty much what happens every time Marner has an opportunity like that and decides to shoot. Which actually happens a lot more than you seem to think.

For the record, Marner is averaging just under 3 shots a game (33rd in the league), which is really not low at all, especially for the type of player he is. He's been shooting in those odd-man situations a lot more over the past couple years.

The simple fact here is, Marner took a good opportunity, and turned it into an even better opportunity, and we almost got a goal out of it. We dominated and won the game. There is no cause to be upset. Even if we were to go by the unsupported theory that a pass was "expected", that still doesn't automatically make it the wrong play. A shot from Matthews after cross-ice puck movement is still a better chance, even if suspected, than a Marner shot with no puck movement. Do you go around blasting Ovechkin for taking shots from his PP spot, because he's doing what the opposition is "expecting"?

marner was wide open in the slot as low as the offensive zone faceoff circles and was looking pass the entire time. He really didnt show the goalie shot. watch the replay his body the entire time is open to matthews... he doesnt once even look in the direction of the net and his leg positioning just prior to the pass is selling pass too... the goalie had many reasons to see he was passing. on top of the obvious that its Marner and the other guy is Matthews. Then when the shot happens hes admiring the play and relaxes like the plays over. probably thinking "damn hockey gods, the puck just wont go in".

your right he has a muffin.... youve proven the point that the guy doesnt deserve superstar pay. a superstar in this position is a threat to the opposition as a shooter and a passer... Marner is only a threat as a passer and its known and even then a superstar passer wouldnt make this play so obvious.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

marner was wide open in the slot as low as the offensive zone faceoff circles and was looking pass the entire time. He really didnt show the goalie shot. watch the replay his body the entire time is open to matthews... he doesnt once even look in the direction of the net and his leg positioning just prior to the pass is selling pass too... the goalie had many reasons to see he was passing. on top of the obvious that its Marner and the other guy is Matthews. Then when the shot happens hes admiring the play and relaxes like the plays over. probably thinking "damn hockey gods, the puck just wont go in".

your right he has a muffin.... youve proven the point that the guy doesnt deserve superstar pay. a superstar in this position is a threat to the opposition as a shooter and a passer... Marner is only a threat as a passer and its known and even then a superstar passer wouldnt make this play so obvious.

They won the game, give it a rest

 

[Havoc]

Matthews straight up robbed lol. Marner didn't sell shot yes but he still waited long enough before passing. Keep in mind there's a defender in the middle who is playing shot, but then seems to become confused because of Marners patience. Then Marner finally sends it and Saros takes first place for this sequence.

Yes Marner could have no-looked snipe blocker side but it was still a skill play when you break it down. Pause at 0:46 and then 0.5 speed it and you'll see what I'm saying.

One last thing to consider is Saros has no idea if Marner is actually dialed into passing or if he's not showing his cards and will do a quick release shot last second after selling pass.

There's nobody to blame here....only praise for Saros.

 

[Notsince67]

Matthews vs Marner, Defensively

Even Strength

1st 3 seasons

Matthews: 2.66ga/60 (+.21rel), 2.86xga/60 (+.19rel)
Marner: 2.63ga/60 (+.02rel), 2.66xga/60 (-.03rel)

Last 3 seasons:

Matthews: 2.15ga/60 (-.30rel), 2.19xga/60 (-.13rel)
Marner: 2.51ga/60 (+.11rel), 2.26xga/60 (-.04rel)


Mitch was better defensively to start their careers but Matthews put on his defensive cap a few years ago and has taken over the lead defensively on the team - especially important given that centers are far more important defensively than wingers.

Really? GA is your metric to decide this?
Saw you started using stuff like +- recently too. Time for a refresher course bud.

 

[zeke]

Really? GA is your metric to decide this?
Saw you started using stuff like +- recently too. Time for a refresher course bud.

You'll notice that it's not the only stat there.

 

[Notsince67]

You'll notice that it's not the only stat there.

I would have thought you would provide some solid stats like defensive percentile rank based on GAR. Curious you didn't show that seeing you have access to evolving hockey. Numbers didnt support the narrative?

 

[Dekes For Days]

marner was wide open in the slot as low as the offensive zone faceoff circles and was looking pass the entire time. He really didnt show the goalie shot.

While in this one instance, he primarily showed and executed a pass, he still could have easily shot, and has many times before in that situation. For all you know, he was trying to shoot and displaying pass as the deception, but because the goalie didn't bite, played the shot, and stayed square to Marner, he took the opportunity that presented itself and passed to the best goal scorer in the world for an amazing chance.

Once again, this was a nice play by Marner, and turned a good chance into an even better chance, in a game we dominated. Regardless of your personal opinions on the intricacies of this play, it's rather silly to complain about a player making an excellent play just because, with replays and hindsight, you don't personally think it was uniquely 100% perfect in every possible way.

Then when the shot happens hes admiring the play and relaxes like the plays over.

That's not even true.

your right he has a muffin.... youve proven the point that the guy doesnt deserve superstar pay.

That's not what I said or proved at all. He doesn't have a muffin shot, though he, like everybody else in the league, does have a worse shot than Matthews, and pre-shot puck movement improves the chances of pucks going in. He also absolutely deserves his pay.

 

[Racer88]

You can't be serious. No one could be this out of touch. How did you draw this implication from what the person said?

You need to follow his posts to get where I was going with that question.
He holds everyone to exacting standards then make a foolish comment that Matthews makes that a goal 9 out of 10 times. I was just giving him some of his own medicine back.

 

[Racer88]

Marner is the most complete 200 foot player on the team right now.

Hahahaha. That’s hilarious

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Yeesh dude. Look again, Saros cheated hard towards Matthews, and in a very pronounced way because of how short of a goalie he is. Hindsight is 20/20 but Marner should have went top-shelf there.

Meh, maybe. But Marner is an elite passer, and he made a great pass. So he did his part. Goalie made a good save, even though he read the predictable play; Marner might want to work on mixing things up in 'obvious' situations. I heard a lot of talk about how hard he worked on his shot in the off season. Would have been an opportine time to show it.

There wasn’t a person in the building or at home watching that didn’t know a pass was coming there. He does need to be a little selfish at times but that’s not in him.

Marner is a hell of a talent, but he's definitely a pass first player. 266 of his 373 points are assists, so that tells the story right there.

 

[zeke]

I would have thought you would provide some solid stats like defensive percentile rank based on GAR. Curious you didn't show that seeing you have access to evolving hockey. Numbers didnt support the narrative?

Not a huge fan of GAR tbh. Much happier to rely on xG.

But of course GAR supports Matthews.

Last 3yrs, defensive component of GAR:

Matthews +6.2 (+.159/60)
Marner +1.5 (+.039/60)


Defensive component of xGAR:

Matthews +3.9 (+.101/60)
Marner +3.1 (+.082/60)

 

[Notsince67]

Not a huge fan of GAR tbh. Much happier to rely on xG.

But of course GAR supports Matthews.

Last 3yrs, defensive component of GAR:

Matthews +6.2 (+.159/60)
Marner +1.5 (+.039/60)


Defensive component of xGAR:

Matthews +3.9 (+.101/60)
Marner +3.1 (+.082/60)

I asked you about the percentile rank, not a funny unweighted average

 

[zeke]

I asked you about the percentile rank, not a funny unweighted average

You're very demanding. That defensive GAR I don't think is an unweighted average - I think it's an accumulated total.

And I don't know where to find gar percentiles.

Xga is good enough for me anyways.

But if you disagree maybe provide your own evidence?

 

[mikeyz]

The deepest problem is that the leafs lost 1 game in the last 10. They would be happier if they lost significantly more

We're still here. We are actually happy seeing the team do well.

 

[Gabriel426]

You're very demanding. That defensive GAR I don't think is an unweighted average - I think it's an accumulated total.

And I don't know where to find gar percentiles.

Xga is good enough for me anyways.

But if you disagree maybe provide your own evidence?

Just asking questions, when it comes to defensive stats for guys like AM and MM, do they really tell the whole picture though since opposing teams will employ their version of shut down line(both forward and defence). And shutdown line are often not offensive players unless it is Bruins.

 

[HarryLime]

we have the same core as the yankees. not gonna win.

 

[zeke]

Just asking questions, when it comes to defensive stats for guys like AM and MM, do they really tell the whole picture though since opposing teams will employ their version of shut down line(both forward and defence). And shutdown line are often not offensive players unless it is Bruins.

Well I actually think they end up facing the other teams' top lines more than their bottom lines tbh.