Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part IV

[TheBeastCoast]

We have to match. Its unlikely the return will give us a player close to as valuable as Marner. Kessel worked out for Boston, but we don't know what team it is.

Now, should management be heavily questioned for letting this happen. Absolutely.

We do not have to match. That is ridiculous.

 

[Walshy7]

Letting your top players go isn't a workable plan either.

So leafs panicked in signing matthews, a legit offersheet threat as you say.

But we pay marner this because “letting your top players go isn’t workable plan” and a possible offersheet. If both were available this offseason matthews would easily be the offersheeted one

 

[93LEAFS]

We do not have to match. That is ridiculous.

The likelihood of getting a better return out of those 4 picks is pretty small. I sure as hell don't have faith in our ability to find anything resembling the value of Marner. We'll likely end up with replaceable middle-sixers.

Also, Marner on 12.5x8 is a better deal for us than what we gave Matthews. Probably by a sizable margin.

 

[Walshy7]

We do not have to match. That is ridiculous.

You very clearly do not match an offer that high, same posters as the ones who whine about matthews contract seem very eager to overpay marner which is pretty weird

 

[93LEAFS]

So leafs panicked in signing matthews, a legit offersheet threat as you say.

But we pay marner this because “letting your top players go isn’t workable plan” and a possible offersheet. If both were available this offseason matthews would easily be the offersheeted one

We should of resolved it last summers. Like most teams do. Look at when Eichel and McDavid were locked up. Instead, we decided not to heavily negotiate until we locked up Willy (who was clearly the 3rd wheel). Then we ended up in this predicament which gave the players serious leverage.

 

[93LEAFS]

You very clearly do not match an offer that high, same posters as the ones who whine about matthews contract seem very eager to overpay marner which is pretty weird

Matthews deal is terrible because we paid an extreme premium while buying up 1 UFA year. If the Marner figure is for 8 years, its a better deal for the Leafs (barring a career-altering injury). People aren't particularly mad at the money of the Matthews deal, but the fact we got him for only 5 years with those terms.

 

[Walshy7]

The likelihood of getting a better return out of those 4 picks is pretty small. I sure as hell don't have faith in our ability to find anything resembling the value of Marner. We'll likely end up with replaceable middle-sixers.

Also, Marner on 12.5x8 is a better deal for us than what we gave Matthews. Probably by a sizable margin.

Take the 4 1sts and we could possibly oversheet a different rfa with our 4 1sts if they available (big if) ie rantanen, point etc.

That way yes we give up our 4 firsts but we will still have 4 firsts. If marner wants to get to that point of course

 

[93LEAFS]

Take the 4 1sts and we could possibly oversheet a different rfa with our 4 1sts if they available (big if) ie rantanen, point etc.

That way yes we give up our 4 firsts but we will still have 4 firsts. If marner wants to get to that point of course

What happens if those other teams match out offer-sheets. That isn't a solid plan. Your also assuming, one they will be cheaper than Marner, and two that our picks will be worse than the ones we are receiving.

 

[Walshy7]

We should of resolved it last summers. Like most teams do. Look at when Eichel and McDavid were locked up. Instead, we decided not to heavily negotiate until we locked up Willy (who was clearly the 3rd wheel). Then we ended up in this predicament which gave the players serious leverage.

Without hindsight a 69 point winger is not worth close to $9m ridiculous to accept that “offer” from marner last season.

You are right I totally agree Lou should have done his job and negotiated a year before nylander was an rfa. But I guess he wasn’t guaranteed the following season so refused to do it. If nylander had signed a year out then marner May have too

 

[93LEAFS]

Without hindsight a 69 point winger is not worth close to $9m ridiculous to accept that “offer” from marner last season.

You are right I totally agree Lou should have done his job and negotiated a year before nylander was an rfa. But I guess he wasn’t guaranteed the following season so refused to do it. If nylander had signed a year out then marner May have too

Love how you fault Lou for everything. Dubas should have negotiated with the two key players last summer, regardless of Nylander's status. Remember all the quotes about how we were glad to take it slow. Dubas owns this more than Lou does. Nylander never had the offer sheet threat.

 

[Walshy7]

What happens if those other teams match out offer-sheets. That isn't a solid plan. Your also assuming, one they will be cheaper than Marner, and two that our picks will be worse than the ones we are receiving.

I’m assuming nothing I said nothing of where those picks fall, I said nothing of the contract either. You said we can’t get a talent of marner well we can that’s how there are 3 this year that are rfas.

Of course it depends on not matching but marner leaving to begin with depends on someone offersheeting it’s all very hypothetical

 

[93LEAFS]

I’m assuming nothing I said nothing of where those picks fall, I said nothing of the contract either. You said we can’t get a talent of marner well we can that’s how there are 3 this year that are rfas.

Of course it depends on not matching but marner leaving to begin with depends on someone offersheeting it’s all very hypothetical

So, why overpay those guys (assuming they'd sign) to a contract that there teams can't match, to a figure likely close to Marner's deal (because we won't get them on an underpay) just to trade firsts. That doesn't make any valid sense as a strategy.

 

[v4karuna]

I like Marner and think he is the best leaf, but if the strange main board rumour (12.5m offer sheet) happens, I hope the leafs take the 4 first round picks and sign / or offer sheet one of the various other RFA/UFA players.

Imagine signing panarin and having the additional 4 first round picks.. keep bringing up youth on entry level contracts.

But having said that, my hope is that he takes a home town discount and signs for 10x8.

 

[Jozay]

We should of resolved it last summers. Like most teams do. Look at when Eichel and McDavid were locked up. Instead, we decided not to heavily negotiate until we locked up Willy (who was clearly the 3rd wheel). Then we ended up in this predicament which gave the players serious leverage.

Yeah. I said it before, but where the Leafs really f***ed up was not signing these guys the absolute first chance they got. It started with Lou and Nylander and we're feeling the ripple effects.

 

[Walshy7]

I like Marner and think he is the best leaf, but if the strange main board rumour (12.5m offer sheet) happens, I hope the leafs take the 4 first round picks and sign / or offer sheet one of the various other RFA/UFA players.

Imagine signing panarin and having the additional 4 first round picks.. keep bringing up youth on entry level contracts.

But having said that, my hope is that he takes a home town discount and signs for 10x8.

Marners pr machine has worked perfectly $10x8 is not a hometown discount what so ever. It’s an acceptable outcome sure it is not a discount

 

[93LEAFS]

I like Marner and think he is the best leaf, but if the strange main board rumour (12.5m offer sheet) happens, I hope the leafs take the 4 first round picks and sign / or offer sheet one of the various other RFA/UFA players.

Imagine signing panarin and having the additional 4 first round picks.. keep bringing up youth on entry level contracts.

But having said that, my hope is that he takes a home town discount and signs for 10x8.

Panarin will cost atleast 11x8, and you are buying way less years. The letting Marner go, then getting another premier RFA strategy is something you do in an EA Sports game, not based in reality.

 

[Walshy7]

So, why overpay those guys (assuming they'd sign) to a contract that there teams can't match, to a figure likely close to Marner's deal (because we won't get them on an underpay) just to trade firsts. That doesn't make any valid sense as a strategy.

You asked where we can get a player as talented as marner I just posted how. If marner signs an offersheet don’t match and give in to him if others are available get them. Maybe one who can score goals as well

 

[Walshy7]

Panarin will cost atleast 11x8, and you are buying way less years. The letting Marner go, then getting another premier RFA strategy is something you do in an EA Sports game, not based in reality.

Isn’t panarin a ufa?

 

[93LEAFS]

You asked where we can get a player as talented as marner I just posted how. If marner signs an offersheet don’t match and give in to him if others are available get them. Maybe one who can score goals as well

You are assuming they will sign with us, and two the other teams won't match, and that it will cost less than the 12.5m. That doesn't seem like a reasonable or viable strategy.

 

[Kiwi]

Letting your top players go isn't a workable plan either.

You make it sound like were getting no return, your getting cap space and assets to use so you can fill it

We still have 2 1C and a 1D to build around, gutting the team for a winger even one as good as Marner isn't smart

 

[Walshy7]

You are assuming they will sign with us, and two the other teams won't match, and that it will cost less than the 12.5m. That doesn't seem like a reasonable or viable strategy.

Your assuming marner signs an offersheet

 

[93LEAFS]

Isn’t panarin a ufa?

He is, I meant to say you are buying way less prime years with Panarin. So, you save 1.5m and get the picks (which god knows what range they will be in), and you are assuming he'd sign with us. Then, for the other potential RFA's the poster I responded to mentioned, you are making a massive amount of assumptions that seem highly unlikely to occur.

 

[93LEAFS]

Your assuming marner signs an offersheet

Isn't that the premise I was responding to in the first place? Which seems grounded in what has been leaked by his camp? What basis do you have to actually make these assumptions as a viable strategy?

 

[Walshy7]

Isn't that the premise I was responding to in the first place? Which seems grounded in what has been leaked by his camp? What basis do you have to actually make these assumptions as a viable strategy?

Eh my bad I never saw the leak from the camp. I apologize I just thought it was all hypothetical and I replied hypothetically in return what was also possible

Edit: the second he signs that offer sheet kick it into plan b, it’s a safe assumption management have a plan b for this scenario. A player signing an offersheet pretty much becomes a trade request in my eyes

 

[Kiwi]

The likelihood of getting a better return out of those 4 picks is pretty small. I sure as hell don't have faith in our ability to find anything resembling the value of Marner. We'll likely end up with replaceable middle-sixers.

Also, Marner on 12.5x8 is a better deal for us than what we gave Matthews. Probably by a sizable margin.

So because the God awful Marner contract wont be as bad as the league's worst RFA contract we also handed out to Matthews we should give it to him?

Thats a poor justification of doing the wrong thing, just keep doubling down, How about we just not do that and trade him instead?