Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part III

[Mr Hockey]

It looks to me like Marner is sliding into that center/winger type style he had in London, I expect Mitch to take another big developmental step next season, imo

 

[JEI]

Bolded is not true one bit.

Nylander was coming off a season of 61 points (back to back 61), Marner had more points at 69. It's an 8 point gap. Then Nylander/Management had a standoff for half the year and Marner's points exploded further.

 

[diceman934]

Since he joined the team.

Could have fooled me the last year and a half.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

People dismiss total points on here as it is convenient to do. However the highest paid player in the nhl has vastly more assists then goals. His line mate scored 50 this year. If JT was a able to carry the mail better Marner would have had more goals. Marner like Connor increased his line mates goal totals. Hyman has more goals then assist as did JT. Both had the goal total increased substantially this year. Hyman in less games this year scored 6 more goals.

Marner drives this line the proof is in the stats.

Marner is a A level line driver.
Tavares is a A level line driver.

McDavid is a A++ line driver.
Draisaitl is a B+line driver.

Looking at their WOWYS this year and past years, that's what it looks like to me.

 

[Walshy7]

I didn't say that. Where did I say I want to trade Tavares?

Then why compare marner to Jt? In no world would the choice be between Jt and marner so you comparison is irrelevant. Matthews and marner is a comparison as if 2 $10-12m players is allow e can have then matthews or marner would go I said matthews is a keeper for me

 

[diceman934]

Nylander was coming off a season of 61 points (back to back 61), Marner had more points at 69. It's an 8 point gap. Then Nylander/Management had a standoff for half the year and Marner's points exploded further.

Marner had just come off putting the team on his back in the last 40 games including the playoffs and producing at a 90 plus point pace. Nylander when Mathews was hurt produced at a 45 point pace. See the Gap was much larger then the 8 points. It. was a huge gap that continued to expand as the year went on and continued all through this year as well.

 

[Maplebeasts]

So let me get this right, you want to trade our best/2nd best player, because he wants to get paid as much as his closest internal comparables?

You're willing to give up on one of the best young players in the game, simply becasue he wants to get paid like it?

Matthews just signed at 11.634. There was NO discount there. Nylander just signed at 6.964. There was NO discount there. But when it's Marners turn, people now want him to take a discount??

Let me remind you, this is the Marner whom in his U22 season matched MATS SUNDIN'S HIGHEST POINT TOTAL for our franchise.
This is the Marner whom in his U22 seasonsexceeded ALL of the players in our team history in single season assists except for Doug Gilmour and Darryl Sittler.
This is the Marner whom in his U22 season was arguably our best PKing forward, and can be trusted in all situations

You want to trade Marner becuase he and his agent is asking for fair pay based on our internal comparables?

You want to trade THIS Mitch Marner??

This is crazy talk!

The important thing to note is that Mitch is an RFA coming off of his ELC. Forget looking at our comparables, look where he stands around the league. He should not be making as much as Patrick Kane on a short term deal. I don't care if Matthews' contract was bad for us, that doesn't give management a pass for overpaying Marner.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Marner had just come off putting the team on his back in the last 40 games including the playoffs and producing at a 90 plus point pace. Nylander when Mathews was hurt produced at a 45 point pace. See the Gap was much larger then the 8 points. It. was a huge gap that continued to expand as the year went on and continued all through this year as well.

Marner did not put the team on his back during the playoffs. Him and Tavares got crushed by the Bergeron line. No need to lie

 

[MyBudJT]

Nylander was coming off a season of 61 points (back to back 61), Marner had more points at 69. It's an 8 point gap. Then Nylander/Management had a standoff for half the year and Marner's points exploded further.

Wait, what are you comparing exactly?

When Nylander signed his new deal, Marner was 4th in the NHL in scoring with 6G, 38P in 27 games. Nylander hasn't produced nearly this well on any 20 game stretch in his career.

U21:
Marner: 22G 69P
Nylander: 22G 61P

U22:
Marner: 6G, 38P (18G 115P Pace)
Nylander: 20G 61P

When Nylander signed his deal, his point totals were in no way comparable to Marner's.

 

[MyBudJT]

Then why compare marner to Jt? In no world would the choice be between Jt and marner so you comparison is irrelevant. Matthews and marner is a comparison as if 2 $10-12m players is allow e can have then matthews or marner would go I said matthews is a keeper for me

I was talking about value to our organization.

You keep Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Rielly and possibly Andersen at ALL COSTS. The rest are tradeable.

 

[diceman934]

Marner is a A level line driver.
Tavares is a A level line driver.

McDavid is a A++ line driver.
Draisaitl is a B+line driver.

Looking at their WOWYS this year and past years, that's what it looks like to me.

Marner is a far better player at driving a line then JT. To say they are the same is foolishness. The proof was there for all to see. JT turned into a one man show in the playoffs and that hurt us in a big way. He attempted to do more then he was capable of. Hope he has learned his lesson for next years playoffs and allows the better playmaker carry the mail.

 

[diceman934]

I was talking about value to our organization.

You keep Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Rielly and possibly Andersen at ALL COSTS. The rest are tradeable.

Only he loves Nylander so that does not work for him.

Those are our core players the rest are supporting players.

 

[Walshy7]

Only he loves Nylander so that does not work for him.

Those are our core players the rest are supporting players.

Haha my god. The classic rebuttle “he loves nylander”

Trade them both of you want a winger at more than $10m with 2 better centers already on that much is going to put us in cap trouble pretty much year in year.

Not to mention he isn’t worth that.

But no no, continue with your stupid “nylander lover” comments

 

[diceman934]

Marner did not put the team on his back during the playoffs. Him and Tavares got crushed by the Bergeron line. No need to lie

Reading is not a strong point is it. I was addressing the year before.

Marner never got crushed against the Bruins this year but JT sure did. He attempted to do fear to much. Made very few pass attempts.

 

[Walshy7]

I was talking about value to our organization.

You keep Matthews, Tavares, Marner, Rielly and possibly Andersen at ALL COSTS. The rest are tradeable.

Of course I agree marner is more valuable, it would only be relevant in a contract discussion if the choice was signing Jt or marner.

Keep at all costs is a terrible strategy

 

[Mess]

The problem is Marner was always going to want slightly less than Matthews, so the Matthews overpayment is going to cause a Marner overpayment.

Signing Tavares for $11 mil and his contract on and off the ice was going to act like a magnet that will draw Matthews and Marner towards that same $11 mil figure on Leafs internal depth chart and salary structure based on importance and production.

Hopefully management understood that when they brought in JT that other players salaries would escalate as a byproduct of that signing, as we're seeing unfold right before our eyes.

Its certainly what I expected to happen, but that essentially meant that Nylander should have been the odd man out to improve the defense with his cap money and him as trade asset to accommodate 3 X $11 mil forwards (on average).

If this was 3 X $11 mil forwards + Rielly + top pairing Dman for Nylander's $7 mil + Andersen it would provide much better balance of cap management by position. IMO

 

[Walshy7]

Reading is not a strong point is it. I was addressing the year before.

Marner never got crushed against the Bruins this year but JT sure did. He attempted to do fear to much. Made very few pass attempts.

You have the nerve to call me a nylander lover and you are trying to say marner was good this playoffs blaming Jt.

My god pot meet kettle

 

[diceman934]

Haha my god. The classic rebuttle “he loves nylander”

Trade them both of you want a winger at more than $10m with 2 better centers already on that much is going to put us in cap trouble pretty much year in year.

Not to mention he isn’t worth that.

But no no, continue with your stupid “nylander lover” comments

Truth hurts. Sorry. He stated that we trade Nylander and you posted no we trade Marner which is beyond stupid. Teams do not trade their best players.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

9.5 x 8 that’s what he’s worth. If he wants to throw away his lifelong dream of being a Leaf, so beit.

 

[MyBudJT]

You have the nerve to call me a nylander lover and you are trying to say marner was good this playoffs blaming Jt.

My god pot meet kettle

He didn't say that at all.

 

[diceman934]

He didn't say that at all.

I find it laughable that people complaining about Mathews playing with players who have blindfolds on when they have the puck and yet in the most important games of the years JT did the same thing and not a peep other then me. You get the puck to your play maker who will open up ice for you to score the goals not attempting to beat 3 defenders on your own most of the time.

 

[diceman934]

9.5 x 8 that’s what he’s worth. If he wants to throw away his lifelong dream of being a Leaf, so beit.

I agree but we just signed Mathews to a contract that pays him like he is the best player in the League and Marner has out played him this last year and a half. So he will not sign for that term or salary as the internal salary structure is weighted far more then external comparisons.

 

[Walshy7]

Truth hurts. Sorry. He stated that we trade Nylander and you posted no we trade Marner which is beyond stupid. Teams do not trade their best players.

Might want to read again, unless I missed the trade nylander part. We are talking about Jt and marner

 

[Savvy]

You are a Nylander lover.

The fact that is being used as some type of attack just makes you come across as silly

 

[Walshy7]

He didn't say that at all.

Read his reply to this post, blaming Jt for marners poor playoff

Edit: not even poor l, below par playoff is a fairer way to put that