Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part II

[Cor]

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

If they want 10M on a 3 year contract, he's getting traded.


That is absolutely ridiculous.

It could just be intentionally high, to push for a long term contract instead. It really does seem like Marner's camp is totally unreasonable, so you never know. Let's hope Marner steps in and actually cares about being a leaf

 

[Cor]

It could just be intentionally high, to push for a long term contract instead. It really does seem like Marner's camp is totally unreasonable, so you never know. Let's hope Marner steps in and actually cares about being a leaf

They want Matthews value.

10 x 3
11.6 x 5
Anything longer, is 12M+

It's pretty unreasonable. I value Marner at about 10M on an 8 year term.

To want that value for 3? Just incredible unreasonable.

 

[thewave]

Good for you Marner, put the screws to Dubas. I fully support you doing whatever it takes to get what you feel you deserve. Dubas made this mess, he attempted to take advantage of your home town love and exploit it while handing out all the riches to your foreign counterparts.

Marner 10.6m x 5y

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

They want Matthews value.

10 x 3
11.6 x 5
Anything longer, is 12M+

It's pretty unreasonable. I value Marner at about 10M on an 8 year term.

To want that value for 3? Just incredible unreasonable.

It's a big shame. I'm all for players going for their worth, but the way his camp is negotiating and the demands they're making is way too much. I love Marner, but it is getting to the point where it isn't worth the headache

 

[Not My Tempo]

Good for you Marner, put the screws to Dubas. I fully support you doing whatever it takes to get what you feel you deserve. Dubas made this mess, he attempted to take advantage of your home town love and exploit it while handing out all the riches to your foreign counterparts.

Marner 10.6m x 5y

Foreign counterparts? Is this satire? You guys put way too much stock into where a player is from.

 

[stopclickbait]

Good for you Marner, put the screws to Dubas. I fully support you doing whatever it takes to get what you feel you deserve. Dubas made this mess, he attempted to take advantage of your home town love and exploit it while handing out all the riches to your foreign counterparts.

Marner 10.6m x 5y

When its a Canadian doing it its alright, but when you are from another country you are a greedy ******* oh the double standard people have is pretty hilarious lol

Damn Nylander getting 500k too much and Matthews getting 1 million too much. That settles it Marner deserves 2-3 million more than he is worth for being a good old Canadian boy lol

 

[LeafSteel]

I have no liking for Paul Marner and the agent Ferris.

I think they may very well end up ending Marner’s tenure here with their demands and tactics.

If Marner wants to stay, he’s going to have to assert himself. Otherwise he’s somewhere else next season. Sorry Nutcracker, Raptors games, rock star status, bromance with Auston, and mainstream endorsements.

Maybe he can get an endorsement with Bubba’s BBQ & Slaw in Raleigh?

 

[Babcocks Marner]

I have no liking for Paul Marner and the agent Ferris.

I think they may very well end up ending Marner’s tenure here with their demands and tactics.

If Marner wants to stay, he’s going to have to assert himself. Otherwise he’s somewhere else next season. Sorry Nutcracker, Raptors games, rock star status, bromance with Auston, and mainstream endorsements.

Maybe he can get an endorsement with Bubba’s BBQ & Slaw in Raleigh?

He's not going anywhere... but damn that is funny.

 

[MyBudJT]

They want Matthews value.

10 x 3
11.6 x 5
Anything longer, is 12M+

It's pretty unreasonable. I value Marner at about 10M on an 8 year term.

To want that value for 3? Just incredible unreasonable.

If you're in Marner's camp, and you just saw the contract that Matthews just signed for, why would you settle for 8yrs x 10M?

I get that Matthews has the "center" factor, and the "goal scoring" factor, but Marner has lead our teams in points each of the last two seasons, and has turned out to be one of our better PKers... something we haven't trusted Matthews to do yet.

I think our management has treated the contract negotiations with our RFAs pretty poorly so far. This isn't taking a shot at Dubas, overall I'm a fan of him... but overall, they've handled these negotiations poorly. I think they should have taken the Chicago approach, and sign Matthews and Marner to identical contracts similar to what Toews and Kane had done.

At this point, I'm hoping for 6 years x 10M myself, but I'm doubtful that the Marner camp will be willing to go that low, and you really can't blame them.

 

[IPS]

Some real high-pressure negotiation tactics being employed.

Me thinks Marner's camp is pushing super hard to get a contract done before Rantanen signs. If they want to continue their narrative of using the internal comparables, they're wanting it done before the external comparable put the pen to the paper.

 

[thewave]

Foreign counterparts? Is this satire? You guys put way too much stock into where a player is from.

Fact is that he is a local boy and they assumed a discount and lowballed him. Stick it too them Mitch, get fair value based on internal comparables.

 

[thewave]

Some real high-pressure negotiation tactics being employed.

Me thinks Marner's camp is pushing super hard to get a contract done before Rantanen signs. If they want to continue their narrative of using the internal comparables, they're wanting it done before the external comparable put the pen to the paper.

For sure.

Next season is if Matthews is under 60 games played and at or just above point a game, do you look to trade and make Marner C?

 

[Turin]

We have Rielly signed to a sweetheart contract, something Pittsburgh could not do with Letang (who was injured as well). Pittsburgh were paying dumb money to useless players in Kunitz, Dupuis and below-average players in Mattaa, Hagelin, and still won the cup back-to-back.

This is basically completely and totally wrong. Kunitz in the playoffs was a responsible .5 ppg player making half of what Marleau is. Letang was and is on a bargain contract, Hagelin was outstanding in 2016 and due to injury reliable PK, puck possession guy at worst in 17. Maatta was the definition of average, wasn’t great nor bad but played responsible hockey both runs. Dupuis was also significantly underpaid for his ES production but that’s irrelevant because he retired before the Pens won back to back.

 

[DarkKnight]

Some real high-pressure negotiation tactics being employed.

Me thinks Marner's camp is pushing super hard to get a contract done before Rantanen signs. If they want to continue their narrative of using the internal comparables, they're wanting it done before the external comparable put the pen to the paper.

Yes before the Dubas overpayments look worse. Right now there is nothing stopping his camp from asking the moon, and that's on management. If he leaves it isn't his agent, it's Dubas that owns it from my perspective. The minute it was decided he was playing with Tavares, the Nylander "slow play" should have been shelved, Marner a priority. His agent was quite clear, no negotiation in season and Dubas has already admitted he did little with Nylander last year in the off season. Big mistake blaming the "unreasonable" Marner camp is laughable given the chronology and the over payments on the books.

Get it done Kyle.

 

[Cor]

Marner is a terrfic player. Anywhere near the Matthews ask is ridiculous.

 

[weems]

Foreign counterparts? Is this satire? You guys put way too much stock into where a player is from.

Bias makes people do and say some really crazy things.

 

[DarkKnight]

Marner is a terrfic player. Anywhere near the Matthews ask is ridiculous.

Yes, and the Matthews ask for Matthews was ridiculous too, especially that absurd term.

There is no logic here.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

If you're in Marner's camp, and you just saw the contract that Matthews just signed for, why would you settle for 8yrs x 10M?

I get that Matthews has the "center" factor, and the "goal scoring" factor, but Marner has lead our teams in points each of the last two seasons, and has turned out to be one of our better PKers... something we haven't trusted Matthews to do yet.

I think our management has treated the contract negotiations with our RFAs pretty poorly so far. This isn't taking a shot at Dubas, overall I'm a fan of him... but overall, they've handled these negotiations poorly. I think they should have taken the Chicago approach, and sign Matthews and Marner to identical contracts similar to what Toews and Kane had done.

At this point, I'm hoping for 6 years x 10M myself, but I'm doubtful that the Marner camp will be willing to go that low, and you really can't blame them.

Isn’t that what Marner wants? Identical contract to Matthews? Don’t forget that Matthews and Marner are much better than Toews and Kane when they signed their identical contracts.

 

[Cor]

Yes, and the Matthews ask for Matthews was ridiculous too, especially that absurd term.

There is no logic here.

Negative. Matthews is a top 5 - 10 player in the world. He's arguably the best player in the world at even strength.

Matthews is fairly paid for half a decade. To complain about that is lunacy.

 

[DarkKnight]

Negative. Matthews is a top 5 - 10 player in the world. He's arguably the best player in the world at even strength.

Matthews is fairly paid for half a decade. To complain about that is lunacy.

That's a laughable "argument". Look, we can convince ourselves whatever we want around here, it doesn't factor one iota to me, I review league sentiment, which overwhelming raised its eyebrows at that number on a scant 5 years. Letting Matthews hit free agency at 27, that's lunacy.

 

[Cor]

That's a laughable "argument". Letting Matthews hit free agency at 27, that's lunacy.

Matthews being one of the top 5 to 10 players in the world while Marner isn't is a laughable argument as to why Marner shouldn't be asking for a contract comparable to Matthews? Alrighty then.

 

[DarkKnight]

Isn’t that what Marner wants? Identical contract to Matthews? Don’t forget that Matthews and Marner are much better than Toews and Kane when they signed their identical contracts.

They won a cup, what is your definition of "much better"?

 

[MyBudJT]

Marner is a terrfic player. Anywhere near the Matthews ask is ridiculous.

Raheef doesn't seem to be reporting stats honestly here.

Matthews is 10th in P/60, Marner is tied for 11th. And this counts for the time Marner was PKing too.
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...er=gamesPlayed,gte,10&sort=pointsPer60Minutes

I don't know where he got the other stats from though. Everyone knows that Matthews is the superior goal scorer though.

Since 2016:
Mitch Marner: 224 Points| 3.15P/60 (152 EVP| 2.56 EVP/60)
Auston Matthews: 205 Points| 3.21P/60 (151 EVP| 2.73 EVP/60)

If anything, these only shows how close Matthews and Marner are. Even then, I'd also suggest /60 isn't the best metric in this scenerio either. If Matthews only plays 60 points a season, /60 stats doesn't matter!! He'd be gone for 25% of the season!

 

[DarkKnight]

Matthews being one of the top 5 to 10 players in the world while Marner isn't is a laughable argument as to why Marner shouldn't be asking for a contract comparable to Matthews? Alrighty then.

They finished identical points per game last year and Marner was on PK. Marner's production against the top defensive teams stayed constant, Matthews numbers were almost half. I mean, you can cobble together whatever you want, but to say there is giant chasm between the two isn't reality. I give Matthews the slight edge, because he's a center, but in terms of impacting games, it's almost a saw off for me.

Anyways, Dubas created this mess. He bragged how much more he's talked to Marner's team relative to where he was at with Nylander, but really that was just an admission of his own failure. I said it last summer, get Marner signed or we will regret it, so did lots of commentators, he was poised for a HUGE year. Dubas, by his own admission, slow played Willie. That we sit here isn't on his agent, his dad, Marner, it's on a failed strategy with regard to our management team. Period.