Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part II

[Superstar]

Maple Leafs' Dubas dreaming of Raptors-like run with current core intact - Sportsnet.ca

DeRozen didn't play his entire career with the Raptors and look how it turned out...

 

[hockeywiz542]

Darren Dreger joins Leafs Lunch to discuss the fact that because Mitch Marner is the last of the Maple Leafs’ big restricted free agents, he is becoming the villain among Leaf fans which is undeserved in Dreger’s eyes. He also talks about how both sides might be approaching the negotiations with the salary cap in mind.

 

[Nooodles]

Darren Dreger joins Leafs Lunch to discuss the fact that because Mitch Marner is the last of the Maple Leafs’ big restricted free agents, he is becoming the villain among Leaf fans which is undeserved in Dreger’s eyes. He also talks about how both sides might be approaching the negotiations with the salary cap in mind.

Starting your monologue with "I DONT KNOW" suits you best Dregs.
God I can't even listen to this prick. Now i'm pretty sure he will receive some sort of bonus of this deal, he's trying to drive that price up like hell.

Oh btw, Matthews is in Toronto cheering for the Raports you asshole.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't think I've ever encountered a player that is less of a villain for his fanbase than Marner. He's almost universally adored, and it's taken quite a bit for people to look past that.

Also find it amusing to read the posts of some here who repeatedly called me a Willy fanboy. At least I accept, and sometimes participate in, criticism against him.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I don't think I've ever encountered a player that is less of a villain for his fanbase than Marner. He's almost universally adored, and it's taken quite a bit for people to look past that.

Also find it amusing to read the posts of some here who repeatedly called me a Willy fanboy. At least I accept, and sometimes participate in, criticism against him.

Yeah, If you say anything to defend a player / GM / Coach you are a fanboy.

If you aren't looking at only 1 side of an argument your wrong

 

[18leafsfan18]

Dreger is such a joke at this point.

Anything that causes people to talk about him.

 

[Sypher04]

So, Dreger comes on the radio one day to spew his BS and fan flames regarding Marner.
Then comes on the next to say that he's being unfairly vilified, which isn't even happening.

Sounds about right. Man he's a jackass.

 

[ACC1224]

I think Dubas would know if the Marner camp was chatty and he is maybe letting the marner camp know he is not amused.

He also could have mentioned it to them during the recent face to face.
Does anyone talk any more or only communicate through Dreger?

 

[Sypher04]

Has Dreger reported anything that hasn't been doom & gloom regarding the Leafs within the last 12-15 months? Legit question.

Nylander was gonna be offersheeted.
Then Matthews was gonna be offersheeted
Then Marner is gonna be offersheeted.
Oh, and don't forget Kapanen & Johnsson are targets too for, you guessed it, offersheets.

And these are just the tip of the iceberg in terms of his crap. His shtick is so tiresome.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't think I've ever encountered a player that is less of a villain for his fanbase than Marner. He's almost universally adored, and it's taken quite a bit for people to look past that.

Also find it amusing to read the posts of some here who repeatedly called me a Willy fanboy. At least I accept, and sometimes participate in, criticism against him.

What do you find villainous about Marner?

 

[ULF_55]

Darren Dreger joins Leafs Lunch to discuss the fact that because Mitch Marner is the last of the Maple Leafs’ big restricted free agents, he is becoming the villain among Leaf fans which is undeserved in Dreger’s eyes. He also talks about how both sides might be approaching the negotiations with the salary cap in mind.

He deserves it as much as every other player deserves it.
Marner's just another player that will be a Maple Leaf for a while.
This isn't "friends and family", it's the Leafs so Dreger some consistency.
Players in, players out, rinse and repeat.

 

[Nithoniniel]

What do you find villainous about Marner?

Absolutely nothing. He's my second favorite player in the world and seems like an incredibly likable guy as well.

What I meant was that it took a long series of pretty bad, public comments directly or indirectly from his camp before people, including me, looked past that and turned critical to the way they are doing things.

 

[Mess]

Dubas needs to shut his pie hole. What a stupid thing to say. Why is he insinuating that Marners camp is talking with the media. It serves no purpose other then to piss off Marners camp. Can he learn to stop giving stupid sound bites.

However a player agent leaking info to the media that helps his client, is not necessarily a bad thing if the goal is to get the best contract.

Both sides use leverage to their advantage, and Dubas openly complaining actually gives more credibility and validates in a way what Dreger is reporting otherwise why would you call it out and draw more attention to it, if silence is your objective, or if it wasn't accurate?

He actually likely got more people to google and listen to what Dreger said after his comment out of curiosity, and if contract silence is your objective then that is last thing he should be doing.

 

[ACC1224]

Absolutely nothing. He's my second favorite player in the world and seems like an incredibly likable guy as well.

What I meant was that it took a long series of pretty bad, public comments directly or indirectly from his camp before people, including me, looked past that and turned critical to the way they are doing things.

Got it.
For myself, I don't really care much about how things get done, as long as they get done.
I don't believe there is any animosity between both sides at this point and believe this will get done before July 1.

 

[ULF_55]

However a player agent leaking info to the media that helps his client, is not necessarily a bad thing if the goal is to get the best contract.

Both sides use leverage to their advantage, and Dubas openly complaining actually gives more credibility and validates in a way what Dreger is reporting otherwise why would you call it out and draw more attention to it, if silence is your objective, or if it wasn't accurate?

He actually likely got more people to google and listen to what Dreger said after his comment out of curiosity.

I have no problem with Dubas providing some information about the team and players.

Although, I'm sure there are some who would prefer neither confirmation nor denial.

Same with the Zaitsev, they'll try and accommodate him for personal reasons.

If people aren't interested in Leafs news they don't have to know it. I know lots of people who know nothing about the Leafs or ever listen to new about the Leafs. Knowing is a choice.

 

[Mess]

Got it.
For myself, I don't really care much about how things get done, as long as they get done.
I don't believe there is any animosity between both sides at this point and believe this will get done before July 1.

Teams can begin talks to pending UFA and RFA on June 26th right after the draft, only can't sign until July 1st.

If you were in the Marner camp and you've waited this long, wouldn't you at least be curious as to what some other teams might have to say as to your worth.

The pressure would be on Leafs management to get their best offer on the table soon and hopefully get Marner to bite to forgo that feeling out process.

The closer we get to June 26th the greater this milestone in the timeline becomes prominent in the outcome. IMO

 

[ryno23]

Here is the thing with the Leafs now. They are finally in a position where they are a good team and should be a consistent playoff team maybe not cup contenders but with parity you just got to get in these days. So if a player thinks he is worth more than the Leafs can offer then ship him out.

Sure Marner has been great for the Leafs but if his dad and agent want him being paid on par with Matthews then thanks and move on. Leafs have enough talent left with Tavares, Nylander, Matthews, Kadri, Kappy, AJ up front they can take the hit on losing Marner. They gain cap space plus probably at minimuum 4 1st round picks. So let Marner walk take the 4 1st rounders and go after someone else RFA.

With all the talk about offer sheets most of it made up by media trying to stay relevant what actually team can afford him and want to part with 4 1st. It reminds me of when Vegas came in and media guys were like oh watch all the player movement teams will be trading right left and centre to move guys to get ready for the expansion draft......hmmm none of that happen. Only a few deals were made with Vegas but you didn't see other teams trading among themselves to help their situation

So if Marner is getting an offer sheet A who has the cap room and B what team is willing to give up 4 1st.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Here is the thing with the Leafs now. They are finally in a position where they are a good team and should be a consistent playoff team maybe not cup contenders but with parity you just got to get in these days. So if a player thinks he is worth more than the Leafs can offer then ship him out.

Sure Marner has been great for the Leafs but if his dad and agent want him being paid on par with Matthews then thanks and move on. Leafs have enough talent left with Tavares, Nylander, Matthews, Kadri, Kappy, AJ up front they can take the hit on losing Marner. They gain cap space plus probably at minimuum 4 1st round picks. So let Marner walk take the 4 1st rounders and go after someone else RFA.

With all the talk about offer sheets most of it made up by media trying to stay relevant what actually team can afford him and want to part with 4 1st. It reminds me of when Vegas came in and media guys were like oh watch all the player movement teams will be trading right left and centre to move guys to get ready for the expansion draft......hmmm none of that happen. Only a few deals were made with Vegas but you didn't see other teams trading among themselves to help their situation

So if Marner is getting an offer sheet A who has the cap room and B what team is willing to give up 4 1st.

As much as I don't think it will get to the offer sheet.

There are a lot of teams that have the assets and cap room to pull off the offer sheet.

Any team willing to give Marner a big enough deal (over 10.5 aav) would likely be fine giving up the 4 1st round picks because if they think Marner is good enough to warrant that much money they likely also think none of those 1st round picks with end with a player that good.

Edit: Cap Friendly actually has a RFA calculator. Every team in the league has the draft picks, obviously would have to see who has the cap space.

 

[Mess]

Jeremy Roenick Discusses Mitch Marner's Contract

MSG Networks Published on May 29, 2019
NBC Sports analyst Jeremy Roenick calls into "The Instigators" and explains why he thinks Mitch Marner doesn't deserve a huge pay raise.

 

[Sypher04]

Teams can begin talks to pending UFA and RFA on June 26th right after the draft, only can't sign until July 1st.

If you were in the Marner camp and you've waited this long, wouldn't you at least be curious as to what some other teams might have to say as to your worth.

The pressure would be on Leafs management to get their best offer on the table soon and hopefully get Marner to bite to forgo that feeling out process.

The closer we get to June 26th the greater this milestone in the timeline becomes prominent in the outcome. IMO

It's not really in Marner's power to leave anyway, so I'm not really sure why seeing what other teams offer really matters that much. Even if he signs an offer sheet, which I've seen no reason to believe he would (despite the constant media talking heads droning about it) the Leafs would still need to not match. I can't see any reason why you don't just negotiate in good faith to try and get a deal done with the team you're 99% most likely to be returning to.

Not to mention I'm quite sure Marner isn't in a huge hurry to become public enemy #1 in his hometown, which he would by signing an offer sheet. This kid grew up a Leaf fan and while that doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna take less than he can get to play here, I'm sure how he's regarded in this market is more important to him than some Joe from New York.

Nevermind all his existing endorsement deals.

 

[Doug Gilmour]

Last post here, I promise. But Dreger is relevant (and speculative at the same time)...here's a copy paste of another post I made

Here are some headlines Dregger broke:

Rick Nash to the Rangers
Marcus Kruger to the Golden Knights
Daniel Winnik to the Penguins
James Neal to the Predators
Cam Talbot will be traded (he was)
Curtis Glencross to the Capitals
Jordan Eberle will be traded (he was)
Kevin Shattenkirk will be traded (he was)
Nick Schultz to the Blue Jackets
Mikkel Boedker will be traded (he was)
Kyle Turris may be traded (he was)
Lars Eller may be traded (he was)
Curtis Lazar may request a trade (he did)
Hjalmarsson may be traded (he was)
PL Dubois signs an ELC
Nazem Kadri signs an extension
Coyotes may trade for a goalie (they did)
Oilers will sign Lucic (they did)
David Perron to the Penguins
Preds, Avs, Sens talked about three-way Duchenen trade (just fookin happened)
Sharks pushing hard for Polak (they traded for him)
Mike Smith signs an extension
Ryan Johansen may be traded (he was)

His dumb tweet in question is his opinion and not an actual rumour, maybe he should do that less so people wouldn't think he's such a hack. But he DOES have connections (outside Nonis), to state he is irrelevant is foolish, he is well connected whether we like it or not.

These headlines are based on a search someone else did 1.5 years ago, and does not cover the last 1.5 years so I'm sure more headlines can be added to this list.

Thank you for this. I should have clarified that I meant this in regards to the Leafs and not the NHL. My apologies.

 

[ACC1224]

Teams can begin talks to pending UFA and RFA on June 26th right after the draft, only can't sign until July 1st.

If you were in the Marner camp and you've waited this long, wouldn't you at least be curious as to what some other teams might have to say as to your worth.

The pressure would be on Leafs management to get their best offer on the table soon and hopefully get Marner to bite to forgo that feeling out process.

The closer we get to June 26th the greater this milestone in the timeline becomes prominent in the outcome. IMO

I suppose if you're motivated to leave which I don't believe to be the case.
I'm sure they have a pretty good handle on his worth, they don't need other teams to confirm it.

 

[Mess]

As much as I don't think it will get to the offer sheet.

There are a lot of teams that have the assets and cap room to pull off the offer sheet.

Any team willing to give Marner a big enough deal (over 10.5 aav) would likely be fine giving up the 4 1st round picks because if they think Marner is good enough to warrant that much money they likely also think none of those 1st round picks with end with a player that good.

Edit: Cap Friendly actually has a RFA calculator. Every team in the league has the draft picks, obviously would have to see who has the cap space.

$10.5 mil is the magic number here as offersheet compensation at that rate = 2 X 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Most teams that have the cap space would likely be comfortable trying to steal him away at that compensation level, because if you tried to acquire him via trade you could ballpark that cost relative to that in assets lost.

However now Marner knows the bare minimum he should accept from the Leafs is also $10.5 mil as the floor, because an offersheet at that level would likely get matched by the Leafs so they would keep him instead of taking the picks.

If a team is willing to go over that threshold and willing to surrender 4 X 1sts then the Leafs are in a tough spot deciding what to do, but for Marner he gets that money from someone regardless, its only a matter how much he is willing to leave on the table to stay in blue and white.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Requested Zaitsev trade could help Dubas, Leafs and the defenceman

Dubas is slightly altering his stance that a Marner deal would have to be in place before any other RFAs or UFAs get settled.

“We can’t hold up the whole operations of our team,” he said. “We can’t stop trying to improve because one of the three free agent situations is slow."

“Johnsson has a resolution mechanism with arbitration. That will come to a close, one way or another in late July. (His agent) Jarrett Bousquet has been very good to deal with it."

“I think with all of our RFAs, we’re having healthy discussions — Mitch’s people, Kasperi’s and Johnsson’s. I’m probably not going to give any (media) as much as they like."

“The system is what it is. I stated at the end of the season we’d like to have all these done as soon as possible to have a really good view of where we’re at.”

 

[ShaneFalco]

Requested Zaitsev trade could help Dubas, Leafs and the defenceman

I think AJ is going to price himself out of TO and they'll avoid arbitration